The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #1
Xenos
Who got Bunny Ears?
 
Xenos's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,194

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default Your observations of Nolan's defense

I read Montrose's observations months ago, and I want to see how it holds up.

I haven't exactly been watching the Broncos so I'm intrigued about your reports.

Is it a 4-3 3-4 hybrid? How does it compare to the other 3-4 schemes like the one that Rex Ryan use?

How is Ronald Fields holding up as a starting NT full time? And yes I know he started like six games in San Fran.
Xenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-10-2009, 06:41 PM   #2
Paladin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,281
Default

No. About the same, still has 11 guys only better. Good. Yes.
Paladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:42 PM   #3
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,504
Default

Fields seems like the type of player who won't really dominate in the other teams backfield, but also can take on 2 blockers and not give ground. He doesn't get pushed back and is the best anchor Broncos have had inside in quite sometime.

It's a 3-4 but the Dlilne uses movement to substitute for not being really big. Seems to me like the are trying to create chaos in the blocking assigments and then send OLB in through the cracks.

I don't think it compares to anyones 3-4 which is why its doing well right now.

They like to send backers or safety's on run blitzes on early downs.

The MLB drop into pass coverage very fluidly and DJ seems more comfortable in his role then past yrs.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:43 PM   #4
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,504
Default

Also they are playing way more physical, but still seem like a fast defense that uses speed to make plays.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:44 PM   #5
BroncoDoug
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoDoug's Avatar
 
R.I.P. D-Will and D-Nash

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moline, IL
Posts: 2,819

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

No Nate Webster = Win!
BroncoDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:49 PM   #6
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenos View Post
I read Montrose's observations months ago, and I want to see how it holds up.

I haven't exactly been watching the Broncos so I'm intrigued about your reports.

Is it a 4-3 3-4 hybrid? How does it compare to the other 3-4 schemes like the one that Rex Ryan use?

How is Ronald Fields holding up as a starting NT full time? And yes I know he started like six games in San Fran.
Its primarily a 3-4 but in some passing situations I have noticed a 4-3 with Doom lining up on the line with his hand on the ground.

Its a bit different than Rex Ryan's 3-4 in that there is no real dominant player in the middle. DJ and Davis have been great but its been more about the team making plays than in Ryan's traditional 3-4 where the two ILBs are the dominant playmakers.

Fields has played well beyond his paygrade IMO. His handling of the NT spot has been way better than anyone expected. His ability to maintain his gap assignments and handle the single teams is impressive and he has done OK with double teams. He isn't an all star NT like Hampton but he is definitely more than adequate.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:51 PM   #7
Xenos
Who got Bunny Ears?
 
Xenos's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,194

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Fields seems like the type of player who won't really dominate in the other teams backfield, but also can take on 2 blockers and not give ground. He doesn't get pushed back and is the best anchor Broncos have had inside in quite sometime.

It's a 3-4 but the Dlilne uses movement to substitute for not being really big. Seems to me like the are trying to create chaos in the blocking assigments and then send OLB in through the cracks.

I don't think it compares to anyones 3-4 which is why its doing well right now.

They like to send backers or safety's on run blitzes on early downs.

The MLB drop into pass coverage very fluidly and DJ seems more comfortable in his role then past yrs.
That's your ideal NT right there. The ones who get into the backfield often are the exceptions like Shaun Rodgers and Ratliff. Jamal Williams never got into the backfield very much either, but he held his ground against two blockers very well. A healthy Jamal that was.
Xenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:51 PM   #8
Florida_Bronco
Ring of Famer
 
Florida_Bronco's Avatar
 
Coming Back Strong in 2014

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 13,783

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Quinton Carter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenos View Post
I read Montrose's observations months ago, and I want to see how it holds up.

I haven't exactly been watching the Broncos so I'm intrigued about your reports.

Is it a 4-3 3-4 hybrid? How does it compare to the other 3-4 schemes like the one that Rex Ryan use?

How is Ronald Fields holding up as a starting NT full time? And yes I know he started like six games in San Fran.
I don't think Montrose's thread really works now. It was an EXCELLENT write up, but like Drek mentioned the other day, McDaniels asked Nolan to scrap the read and react defense he usually runs and go to more of an attacking defense.
Florida_Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:53 PM   #9
Paladin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,281
Default

Signing Fields and watching him play this year proves that Nolan knows a h3ll of a lot more about talent than many pundits and "experts" around here. He was, shall we say, panned......
Paladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:55 PM   #10
Xenos
Who got Bunny Ears?
 
Xenos's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,194

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Signing Fields and watching him play this year proves that Nolan knows a h3ll of a lot more about talent than many pundits and "experts" around here. He was, shall we say, panned......
He didn't exactly run this type of defense in San Fran from what I've heard. Which is why he got panned. Maybe, McDaniels had a bigger part to play in Nolan's type of play calling then certain others would like to give him credit for.
Xenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:58 PM   #11
Xenos
Who got Bunny Ears?
 
Xenos's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,194

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Chalk View Post
Its primarily a 3-4 but in some passing situations I have noticed a 4-3 with Doom lining up on the line with his hand on the ground.

Its a bit different than Rex Ryan's 3-4 in that there is no real dominant player in the middle. DJ and Davis have been great but its been more about the team making plays than in Ryan's traditional 3-4 where the two ILBs are the dominant playmakers.

Fields has played well beyond his paygrade IMO. His handling of the NT spot has been way better than anyone expected. His ability to maintain his gap assignments and handle the single teams is impressive and he has done OK with double teams. He isn't an all star NT like Hampton but he is definitely more than adequate.
This is a main reason why the Chargers struggled with Pittsburgh. Our dline wasn't maintaining its gap assignments, which causes a ripple affect throughout the entire defense and cause everyone else to not keep to their responsibility.
Xenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:59 PM   #12
Xenos
Who got Bunny Ears?
 
Xenos's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,194

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco View Post
I don't think Montrose's thread really works now. It was an EXCELLENT write up, but like Drek mentioned the other day, McDaniels asked Nolan to scrap the read and react defense he usually runs and go to more of an attacking defense.
Does Nolan still have his role players though? I remember Montrose mentioning having a certain player as a Joker and such. Is that still there or has that also been scrapped completely?
Xenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:02 PM   #13
strafen
Karma
 
strafen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,258

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Elway
Default

1- We have better players
2- New system
3- Attacking mode defense
4- Playing with a lot of fire and enthusiasm for 60 minutes
5- Rush the QB!
6- Creating turnovers

Those are the things that no matter who they play they will always have a good chance to succeed.
I'm surprised how fast they came out of the gate and started to perform at a higher level. I thought it was going to take a few games to see some improvements.
They've shown so far they're way ahead of the learning curve, and the most exciting part is that they will get better as they gel as a solid unit.

Gotta love our defense this year!
strafen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:03 PM   #14
BroncoInSkinland
Lurker
 
BroncoInSkinland's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,024

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Current D-line
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenos View Post
I read Montrose's observations months ago, and I want to see how it holds up.

I haven't exactly been watching the Broncos so I'm intrigued about your reports.

Is it a 4-3 3-4 hybrid? How does it compare to the other 3-4 schemes like the one that Rex Ryan use?

How is Ronald Fields holding up as a starting NT full time? And yes I know he started like six games in San Fran.
Montrose (sadly) has decided to take a break from the mane for a while. I am not the best X's and O's guy here at the mane by a long shot ( I would say I am under board average to be honest), but I will give it a shot. I think it is a full 3-4 scheme, with elements of a 5-2 incorporated. I cant think of any games where I have seen 4 with hands on the ground, or even where ILB's primary duty seems to be engaging the O-line which I would think of as a disguised 4-3 (demonpens disguised blitz pic just popped into my head and made me chuckle). As for the 5-2 I also haven't seen much of OLB's dropping into coverage, it has happened on occasion, but it has never struck me as being the primary focus of the play call, more along the lines of a ILB or CB blitz where coverage was needed to free up an unexpected rusher.

I am not overly familiar with other Rex Ryan schemes, so I am not even going to comment on that.

Fields has been a massive surprise to me, on most plays he has neutralized the center, and on occasion commanding a double team. Overall the most important role of a NT in the 3-4, as I understand it, is to create matchups to allow the LB's to cover the run, and shoot the gaps in pass rushing. From what I have seen he has clearly defined the B and C gaps (unsure of terminology there, but I think I got it right) for the ILB's on the majority of plays. It is a less than sexy position unless you have a true monster playing it (Haynesworth and Rodgers are the two that jump immediately to mind), but I think Fields has done everything that Nolan wanted and expected of him, and a bit more. In short, I think he is holding up well.

The above is probably riddled with mistakes, feel free to poke fun at me for it. Again, sorry I am not a great X's and O's guy, but at least it covers my observations of the situation.
BroncoInSkinland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:17 PM   #15
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenos View Post
This is a main reason why the Chargers struggled with Pittsburgh. Our dline wasn't maintaining its gap assignments, which causes a ripple affect throughout the entire defense and cause everyone else to not keep to their responsibility.
Missing gap assignments = big plays.

Denver had no gap discipline last year and as a result had big play after big play against them. WHEN Denvers 2008 defense maintained their gap control, they stuffed the rushing plays. The 15% of the time they didn't it went for a big gain 100% of the time.

Its one of the huge reasons Denver's defense has improved so dramatically. Big plays have not come in the run game on gap control lapses. Really only one big run play and that was off the edge. Two screen plays went for 20+ against Denver and that is the fault of the DE's as they were SUPPOSED to know "If its too easy, its a screen play".
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:24 PM   #16
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Chalk View Post
Missing gap assignments = big plays.

Denver had no gap discipline last year and as a result had big play after big play against them. WHEN Denvers 2008 defense maintained their gap control, they stuffed the rushing plays. The 15% of the time they didn't it went for a big gain 100% of the time.

Its one of the huge reasons Denver's defense has improved so dramatically. Big plays have not come in the run game on gap control lapses. Really only one big run play and that was off the edge. Two screen plays went for 20+ against Denver and that is the fault of the DE's as they were SUPPOSED to know "If its too easy, its a screen play".
I think Dawkins and Hill are the main reasons for the lack of big plays being given up. There have been at least 1-3 plays a game this yr that looked like uh oh plays until a safety made a great 1-1 open field tackle.

Last yr those plays went for tds.

After that the biggest difference is Haggan over Boss Bailey, and Davis over webster. The difference in play makes both those former players look like little girls in football pads.

IMO its those 4 players making the biggest impact on the big plays.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:28 PM   #17
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I think Dawkins and Hill are the main reasons for the lack of big plays being given up. There have been at least 1-3 plays a game this yr that looked like uh oh plays until a safety made a great 1-1 open field tackle.

Last yr those plays went for tds.

After that the biggest difference is Haggan over Boss Bailey, and Davis over webster. The difference in play makes both those former players look like little girls in football pads.

IMO its those 4 players making the biggest impact on the big plays.
There is no doubt safety play has made a huge difference but the 1-3 plays a game that got beyond the front seven this year were about 5-10 a game last year.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:29 PM   #18
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,504
Default

Peterson/Mcbean/Fields/Thomas/Holliday can take more chances upfront because they know they have backers who can make plays. The defense trusts each other more this yr.

You don't ever see Bailey cheating to the inside to help the run. He seems to be able to totally focus on the WR where last yr I think he was taking it on himself to try and help the safetys.

Also the dends last yr were so soft they never held the edge. Running backs turned the corner full speed and punished our corners.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:33 PM   #19
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Peterson/Mcbean/Fields/Thomas/Holliday can take more chances upfront because they know they have backers who can make plays. The defense trusts each other more this yr.

You don't ever see Bailey cheating to the inside to help the run. He seems to be able to totally focus on the WR where last yr I think he was taking it on himself to try and help the safetys.

Also the dends last yr were so soft they never held the edge. Running backs turned the corner full speed and punished our corners.
That's partially true about the DEs.

Ekuban when he was healthy was a very solid and disciplined End.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:36 PM   #20
lostknight
In The Arena
 
lostknight's Avatar
 
ohwaitwtf

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,336

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tim Tebow
Default

The biggest mistake made this offseason may turn out to be not signing Fields to a longer contract then two years, if the first four games are anything to judge by. Then again, Baker looked fantastic in pre-season. He is pretty consistently driving the line back when he is man on man, and eating up two on double team. You really can't ask for much more then that.

I really think that what hurt Nolan the most in his last job was his hybrid approach. He refused to solidify his defense, and I think it caught up to him. Early comments from Nolan and McDaniels indicated that they were going to do a hybrid approach here, and we were gearing up for it, but surprisingly the team has more or less been full time 3-4.

The last game for example, there were quite a few straight up 3 man rushes that were getting significant penetration into the Dallas backfield. Obviously, You are going to win a lot of games if you can consistently get pressure with three or four man fronts.

Nolan's past systems have had a "joker" that has been the pivot for the d-line. While it's tempting to say that Doom is that in this system, they have spread the role around a lot more, which has been very effective. Doom for example has been primarily rushing from the right side, but they have also been running delayed blitzes with safeties, and Robert Ayers has rushed a few times off the left tackle.
lostknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:39 PM   #21
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I think Dawkins and Hill are the main reasons for the lack of big plays being given up. There have been at least 1-3 plays a game this yr that looked like uh oh plays until a safety made a great 1-1 open field tackle.

Last yr those plays went for tds.

After that the biggest difference is Haggan over Boss Bailey, and Davis over webster. The difference in play makes both those former players look like little girls in football pads.

IMO its those 4 players making the biggest impact on the big plays.
Oh and one more retort.

There have been no big plays in teh run game to the safeties for them to cover our mistakes. THe big plays the safeties have saved us in were all in the passing game.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 07:49 PM   #22
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Chalk View Post
Oh and one more retort.

There have been no big plays in teh run game to the safeties for them to cover our mistakes. THe big plays the safeties have saved us in were all in the passing game.
Not a lot for sure. I think last yr it wasn't that they just got to the second level, it was that RBS hit the 2nd level at full speed, with 100% agility intact. I think this yr when they do find a crack they aren't getting through untouched. The hit the 2nd level sometimes but usually stumbling a little more, or not at full speed etc.

I do agree but I remember a couple plays already, 2 vs Barber, and a couple vs Benson where it looked bad, but safety made the play.

You are right though a lot of last yrs problems were those short passes, turning into big huge plays.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:05 PM   #23
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Not a lot for sure. I think last yr it wasn't that they just got to the second level, it was that RBS hit the 2nd level at full speed, with 100% agility intact. I think this yr when they do find a crack they aren't getting through untouched. The hit the 2nd level sometimes but usually stumbling a little more, or not at full speed etc.

I do agree but I remember a couple plays already, 2 vs Barber, and a couple vs Benson where it looked bad, but safety made the play.

You are right though a lot of last yrs problems were those short passes, turning into big huge plays.
You might be right but I distinctly remember Benson being shut down his one big play came on the edge and went for 20.

Barber's longest run was 11 yards.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 09:43 PM   #24
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,882

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Chalk View Post
Its primarily a 3-4 but in some passing situations I have noticed a 4-3 with Doom lining up on the line with his hand on the ground.

Its a bit different than Rex Ryan's 3-4 in that there is no real dominant player in the middle. DJ and Davis have been great but its been more about the team making plays than in Ryan's traditional 3-4 where the two ILBs are the dominant playmakers.

Fields has played well beyond his paygrade IMO. His handling of the NT spot has been way better than anyone expected. His ability to maintain his gap assignments and handle the single teams is impressive and he has done OK with double teams. He isn't an all star NT like Hampton but he is definitely more than adequate.
I agree and he is getting a lot of snaps in a 2 man rotation while Baker is learning. It seemed like baker was playing well too but I don't think he has been active yet. Hope baker is ready soon so as to spell Fields.

The way this defense is rounding to shape is astonishing not only did McD/ Nolan build a top D from near scratch but built quality depth too, I am blown away by how much has been accomplished in 9 months time.

Oh and I agree with another take of yours, Kyle Orton is going to become a great QB for the Broncos and that is going to become clear to all very soon.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 12:23 AM   #25
ZONA
Ring of Famer
 
ZONA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 9,906

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Things change from game to game depending on the strengths of the offense you are playing but one thing I have noticed the Broncos defense doing on a consistent basis no matter who we are playing is they are normally not doing a ton of blitzing in the first half of games. It seems as if they run alot of base defense looks to see how the offense will attack and then they are making GREAT halftime adjustments and bringing more complex packages.


But honestly, 2 things have to work well to get pressure on the QB and sacks. Your secondary has to cover well and your rushers have to "get there". If either don't get it done, you won't succeed.

I think obviously Nolan is the biggest reason why this defense is playing at the level it is but I also think with the addition of some new players, the Broncos already had some excellent defensive players on the squad but with crappy DC's in the past, you just never knew how good they could be.
ZONA is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:11 PM.


Denver Broncos