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Old 10-09-2009, 09:20 AM   #1
Mr. Elway
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Default Denver reporter to Vonnie Holliday: You're playing with a bunch of bums

Forgive me if this was already posted, I did not see it:

"Vonnie Holliday is one of the more vociferous players in football, but even he was stunned into silence early last month by an impromptu scouting report on his new team, the Broncos. A 12-year veteran defensive end, Holliday signed with Denver the week before the Sept. 13 season opener and arrived in the Mile High City optimistic and excited. Then, while talking to a local reporter, he got the lowdown on his teammates: ‘Basically,' Holliday was told, ‘you're playing with a bunch of bums.' The newcomer was taken aback. ‘At first I didn't know what to say,' Holliday says. ‘Then I was like, ‘Whoa. I don't know what you've seen so far, but in the couple of [preseason] games I've watched, they've played hard and at a high level.' I mean, how do you say something like that?' A month later the answer is obvious: You don't."

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/1...os-adorn-cover
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:49 AM   #2
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At the time, I would've told him that too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it; I thought our defense was going to be garbage this season. I had no faith in our defensive line, I thougth DJ was going to repeat his first attempt at MLBing, I thought Dumervil wouldn't make the transition, I thought Hill wasn't going to be the cover saefety we're looking for, I thought Dawkins would suck in coverage and I thought that Bailey had lost a couple of steps.

I was wrong, thank god, but there seems to be an air of "Told you so!" on this board, and noone but NOONE thought our defense was gonna be this good. Seriously.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Killericon View Post
At the time, I would've told him that too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it; I thought our defense was going to be garbage this season. I had no faith in our defensive line, I thougth DJ was going to repeat his first attempt at MLBing, I thought Dumervil wouldn't make the transition, I thought Hill wasn't going to be the cover saefety we're looking for, I thought Dawkins would suck in coverage and I thought that Bailey had lost a couple of steps.

I was wrong, thank god, but there seems to be an air of "Told you so!" on this board, and noone but NOONE thought our defense was gonna be this good. Seriously.

Most took a wait and see approach, because nobody knew what was going to happen. It's the negative people that feel that air you are talking about and it's well deserved.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:55 AM   #4
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Why not? They are all veterans.......
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:00 AM   #5
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I love the "nobody believes in us" factor our team has. I just worry that all this recent positive press is going to end it.

If anybody remembers from last year, I hope every week someone tells them they "shouldn't even get off the plane".
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:02 AM   #6
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my guess was that is was Woody Paige. Sounds like something he would say
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:06 AM   #7
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At the time, I would've told him that too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it; I thought our defense was going to be garbage this season. I had no faith in our defensive line, I thougth DJ was going to repeat his first attempt at MLBing, I thought Dumervil wouldn't make the transition, I thought Hill wasn't going to be the cover saefety we're looking for, I thought Dawkins would suck in coverage and I thought that Bailey had lost a couple of steps.

I was wrong, thank god, but there seems to be an air of "Told you so!" on this board, and noone but NOONE thought our defense was gonna be this good. Seriously.
I guess I have three things to say to that. First - my attitude along with many others was to wait and see, like Garcia just said. Second, after the preseason I thought the starting defense was playing well. Third, I think it's a poor showing for a local reporter to talk badly about our team to a new player.

It's one thing to voice an individual opinion on a message board. If you are a professional reporter talking to an actual player, you should filter your comments even if that's what you think.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:12 AM   #8
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Most took a wait and see approach, because nobody knew what was going to happen. It's the negative people that feel that air you are talking about and it's well deserved.
Wait and see is lame when speculating and talking football. You will never have much fun if that is always your view. Take a stance, it isn't like this stuff means that much that people should be getting as upset as they do about peoples opinions. I find think it says a lot about the person that does.

I didn't think there was any chance of this kind of turnaround. I liked Elvis, Champ, and DJ though. I just figured it would take some time to transition to a 3-4. I also thought there was a lack of attention payed to the front seven. We brought in a lot of guys and they are showing that they are very good. I was worried that they were going to be much more average. I expected a middle of the pack defense though. I love Nolan and a good defensive coach can do a lot even without the personell. I saw it with Nebraska as soon as thet hired Bo.

This defense is really making me look dumb after some of the things I said this offseason. I still think the same about stuff like Cutler and trading away future first round picks. I have to rethink what I was saying about McD the GM though. He has done a very good job other than those two things. The good outways the bad by a lot right now. Now hopefully he keeps it up. He will stop all the negative talk if he does. That is, as long as Cutler isn't winning SBs in Chicago.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:12 AM   #9
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At the time, I would've told him that too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it; I thought our defense was going to be garbage this season. I had no faith in our defensive line, I thougth DJ was going to repeat his first attempt at MLBing, I thought Dumervil wouldn't make the transition, I thought Hill wasn't going to be the cover saefety we're looking for, I thought Dawkins would suck in coverage and I thought that Bailey had lost a couple of steps.

I was wrong, thank god, but there seems to be an air of "Told you so!" on this board, and noone but NOONE thought our defense was gonna be this good. Seriously.
I said many times that I'm rooting for this team prove me wrong. Defensively, I'm glad they are.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:19 AM   #10
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I guess I have three things to say to that. First - my attitude along with many others was to wait and see, like Garcia just said. Second, after the preseason I thought the starting defense was playing well. Third, I think it's a poor showing for a local reporter to talk badly about our team to a new player.

It's one thing to voice an individual opinion on a message board. If you are a professional reporter talking to an actual player, you should filter your comments even if that's what you think.
Well, I don't know anything about the context. If Vonnie was just walking by and the reporter said it randomly, then that's stupid. If the reporter had just interviewed him, and then Vonnie asked him, off the record, what he thought about the Broncos, then I'd be fine with a reporter saying that...But something tells me it wasn't a situation where saying that was alright.

I never pay attention to the preseason. All I knew was that I like Mike Nolan, but that we weren't gonna build a defense in one season(the '09 Dolphins are not a common thing)...Again, I'm ****ing stoked to be dead wrong.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:28 AM   #11
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Well, I don't know anything about the context. If Vonnie was just walking by and the reporter said it randomly, then that's stupid. If the reporter had just interviewed him, and then Vonnie asked him, off the record, what he thought about the Broncos, then I'd be fine with a reporter saying that...But something tells me it wasn't a situation where saying that was alright.

I never pay attention to the preseason. All I knew was that I like Mike Nolan, but that we weren't gonna build a defense in one season(the '09 Dolphins are not a common thing)...Again, I'm ****ing stoked to be dead wrong.
I hear ya, it's tough to judge without having been there. That's fair enough.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:30 AM   #12
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Wait and see is lame when speculating and talking football. You will never have much fun if that is always your view. Take a stance, it isn't like this stuff means that much that people should be getting as upset as they do about peoples opinions. I find think it says a lot about the person that does.
Wrong. What's fun is waiting for people to make predictions, holding back, and when they are wrong, pouncing on them.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
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my guess was that is was Woody Paige. Sounds like something he would say
I heard that it was Gil Whitely?
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:33 AM   #14
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Wrong. What's fun is waiting for people to make predictions, holding back, and when they are wrong, pouncing on them.
I agree. That doesn't happen if everyone takes a wait and see approach. The "I told you so" isn't as good from someone that didn't have an opinion. It is much better when the person that was correct gets to throw it in the face of the person that was wrong.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:54 AM   #15
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Had to be Josina, didn't it? I mean, it HAD to be.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:01 AM   #16
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At the time, I would've told him that too.
Agree, AT THE TIME the d-line was radically unproven. Marcus Thomas had more NFL starts than all the other d-linemen combined.

Glad Vonnie reacted the way he did, that's some class right there.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:02 AM   #17
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Wrong. What's fun is waiting for people to make predictions, holding back, and when they are wrong, pouncing on them.
...

And when their predictions prove correct, don't say anything at all
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:06 AM   #18
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my guess was that is was Woody Paige. Sounds like something he would say
Yeah, you're right. The word "bum" is classic Woody.

I don't think that's a Josina word.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:07 AM   #19
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...

And when their predictions prove correct, don't say anything at all
Well it's not exactly fun to tell someone they were RIGHT, now is it? Unless of course that person is oneself.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:07 AM   #20
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If I were to guess, I'd guess Kiszla.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:15 AM   #21
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Yeah, you're right. The word "bum" is classic Woody.

I don't think that's a Josina word.
The only way that Josina would use the word bum is if she quoted an anonymous source that had other sources close to the situation.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:17 AM   #22
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I'm going with Krieger... He seems like an arrogant know-it-all jerk. I can't picture Woody saying it (unless he said it jokingly)...
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:20 AM   #23
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At the time, I would've told him that too.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it; I thought our defense was going to be garbage this season. I had no faith in our defensive line, I thougth DJ was going to repeat his first attempt at MLBing, I thought Dumervil wouldn't make the transition, I thought Hill wasn't going to be the cover saefety we're looking for, I thought Dawkins would suck in coverage and I thought that Bailey had lost a couple of steps.

I was wrong, thank god, but there seems to be an air of "Told you so!" on this board, and noone but NOONE thought our defense was gonna be this good. Seriously.
Good assessment.
I was feeling the same way you were...
The exception was Dumervil and Dawkins. I thought those two were at least be performing at a high level, yet, they have exceeded my expectations by a mile...
My best and most realistic, optimistic hope for our defense this year was to finish middle of the pack, like somewhere around 15th-17th in the league.
That would have been a huge improvement, but to be #1 in the NFL season after 4 games?
I never would've guessed, or nobody for that matter. One thing I could go on record about our defense is...they're for real. They're going to be amongst the best in the league. May our defense stay healthy all season long!
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:23 AM   #24
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Had to be Josina, didn't it? I mean, it HAD to be.
That b**** loves gossiping.
Earlier during TC she was committed to dig into some BS lead she had about an unhappy locker room, about players mistrust about their new HC and yadah, yadah, yadah...
I guess she's still looking for the big news to break in as her own that would have some kind of relevance
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:36 AM   #25
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Wait and see is lame when speculating and talking football. You will never have much fun if that is always your view. Take a stance, it isn't like this stuff means that much that people should be getting as upset as they do about peoples opinions. I find think it says a lot about the person that does.
I sympathise a lot with what you're saying, but at the same time, I think that this offseason, with soooooo much negativity being directed at the new coach, I think that "wait and see" was a very valid stance.

I wasn't exactly going to come out and say McD was going to be a world-beater from the off - heck, he did have NO track record as an HC, Nolan had a good record as a DC but had never done a silk purse/sow's ear job like this before, and losing cutler was a blow. I was uncertain about the changes but I really, really got pissed off with all the people on this board who were sooooo certain that of course he was going to fail and all was ****ty. I simply didn't buy it. I thought that we might struggle, but that even if we did there was a very good chance of everything coming together eventually. But I wasn't sure.

I'm happy to say that whilst I was often defending mcd against the haters on this board, I've still been taken by surprise with how good we've been so far. I though the defense would improve, but I still thought that we would lose games where the offense couldn't get moving, and that was NOT the case in Cincy on opening Sunday. There's still a long way to go, but before the season I though the best we could hope for was 7-9 with a strong finish and a decent season the following year. With the start we've had I dare to dream we could make the playoffs this year - perhaps even go deep.

So I've been short on the crowing, becuase I can't honestly say I'm any less surprised than the haters are, but I really though that a lot of the criticism in the offseason was the kind of really hysterical, panicky hyperbole that we can do without, and it rubbed me up the wrong way.

I'm all in favour of having an opinion, and I don't have a problem with arguments, but that's still no excuse for not thinking before you open your mouth (OK, before typing then...), which a lot of posters did here in the offseason.
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