The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2009, 03:23 PM   #1
lex
Ring of Famer
 
lex's Avatar
 
The Broncos have been DisemBowlened

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 10,236

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default Evaluate Dallas' Defense If Ware Is Neutralized.

Last year, D. Ware had 20 something sacks. Its amazing what that kind of pressure from one guy can do. The only thing is, if that guy is neutralized, suddenly the rest of the team can be exposed [I made a thread after the Cincy game about how we had 3 sacks with none coming from Doom]. So then, a lot is being made about how our defense will stack up against their offense, but what if Clady neutralizes Ware? Is Dallas equipped to stop Denver, provided Denver doesnt turn the ball over?
lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-02-2009, 03:32 PM   #2
prunch
Seasoned Veteran
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 356

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Tampa put up something like 21 points with Ware involved ... neutralized or not.

I see them as somewhat lacking ..... I will be shocked if we don't at least put up 27 and equally shocked if they can put up 27 on us.

I don't see how they win except with a few lucky bounces or superstar plays here and there.

We have good O and very good D
They have very good O and bad D

Advantage us ...
prunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 03:33 PM   #3
BMarsh615
Ring of Famer
 
21ís No Champ

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,076

Adopt-a-Bronco:
# 15
Default

Their NT Ratliff (sp?) is pretty good at getting into the backfield. But Casey Weigman has done pretty well against many of the premier NT's since he has been here (Jenkins, Wilfork, Jamal Williams(2), Rodgers (2). Our OL is the main reason I think Orton will succeed.

The Cowboys ILB's aren't very good. Carpenter sucks donkey nuts.

I think we have an advantage against their defense. It is their big ole offensive line I am worried about.
BMarsh615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 03:37 PM   #4
Old Dude
Super Moderator
 
Old Dude's Avatar
 
Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: DIA Tunnels
Posts: 14,771
Default

To be honest, I'm a lot more concerned about Jay Ratliff than DeMarcus Ware.

Ratliff, a 2008 pro bowler, is a freak player. Basically a DE big and strong enough to play NT. Very fast and capable of penetrating/pushing back the pocket.

It's that kind of problem that opens up opportunities for outside rushers like Ware. If I was drawing up a plan to attack Dallas, finding a way to neutralize him would be my main concern - especially since we're a little dinged up at LG.
Old Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 03:38 PM   #5
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

With or without Ware being neutralized, expect to see more passing in this game as Dallas' secondary is extremely weak and by weak I mean it blows goats. I would expect this would cause Dallas to go into more nickel and dime coverages which should open up the run a bit more.

The key to this game however is no Denver's O vs Dallas' D, its the opposite. It's how we handle Dallas' offense that will determine how this game is going to go. IF I am right, and to be fair I have been right so far on predicting how Denver is going to fare against their competition, then I expect Denver to give up no more than 1 TD and 2 FGs tops and Denver to put up 3 TDs, 2 by air, one by ground and 2 FGs, maybe 2 TDs and 3 FGs, either way it will be more than enough to defeat Dallas.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 03:52 PM   #6
maher_tyler
Ring of Famer
 
maher_tyler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,091

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dude View Post
To be honest, I'm a lot more concerned about Jay Ratliff than DeMarcus Ware.

Ratliff, a 2008 pro bowler, is a freak player. Basically a DE big and strong enough to play NT. Very fast and capable of penetrating/pushing back the pocket.

It's that kind of problem that opens up opportunities for outside rushers like Ware. If I was drawing up a plan to attack Dallas, finding a way to neutralize him would be my main concern - especially since we're a little dinged up at LG.
I also think he'll be our biggest problem...if he's constantly getting presure, expect some draws, screens and stretch plays and tosses to the outside!
maher_tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 04:37 PM   #7
Lev Vyvanse
Ring of Famer
 
Lev Vyvanse's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,048
Default

Does Ware move from side to side or does he mostly rush from the blindside?
Lev Vyvanse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 04:45 PM   #8
BMarsh615
Ring of Famer
 
21ís No Champ

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,076

Adopt-a-Bronco:
# 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lev Vyvanse View Post
Does Ware move from side to side or does he mostly rush from the blindside?
They don't move him around...

From a former scout of the Ravens and Browns.

Quote:
The Cowboys always line Ware up on the open (away from the TE) side of the formation. In obvious passing situations, most teams will motion the TE to his side to help out their OT. It will be interesting to see if the Broncos are confident enough in Clady to let him deal with Ware by himself.
http://www.movethesticks.com/?p=639
BMarsh615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 04:47 PM   #9
Lev Vyvanse
Ring of Famer
 
Lev Vyvanse's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMarsh615 View Post
They don't move him around...

From a former scout of the Ravens and Browns.


http://www.movethesticks.com/?p=639
Nice. That is a big problem for them.
Lev Vyvanse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 06:19 PM   #10
strafen
Karma
 
strafen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,255

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Elway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dude View Post
To be honest, I'm a lot more concerned about Jay Ratliff than DeMarcus Ware.

Ratliff, a 2008 pro bowler, is a freak player. Basically a DE big and strong enough to play NT. Very fast and capable of penetrating/pushing back the pocket.

It's that kind of problem that opens up opportunities for outside rushers like Ware. If I was drawing up a plan to attack Dallas, finding a way to neutralize him would be my main concern - especially since we're a little dinged up at LG.
They're both good. Sorta like pick your poison, but Ware would be going against Clady. I like our chances with Clady there...
Which leaves Ratliff. who is a monster...
Isn't he like over 300lbs and somrthing like no fat, all muscle?
That's a freak right there, folks!
strafen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2009, 07:19 PM   #11
watermock
"Hoodie Jr"
 
watermock's Avatar
 
"Hug me!"

Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah
Posts: 76,813
Default

The road to KingNeckBeard runs thru Hamilton/Weigman.

I'd leave in Buckty or Hillis to block the inside.

Last edited by watermock; 10-02-2009 at 07:25 PM..
watermock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 10:46 AM   #12
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Quanterus Smith was MY freakin Pick

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,062

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lex View Post
Last year, D. Ware had 20 something sacks. Its amazing what that kind of pressure from one guy can do. The only thing is, if that guy is neutralized, suddenly the rest of the team can be exposed [I made a thread after the Cincy game about how we had 3 sacks with none coming from Doom]. So then, a lot is being made about how our defense will stack up against their offense, but what if Clady neutralizes Ware? Is Dallas equipped to stop Denver, provided Denver doesnt turn the ball over?
Dallas Plays a single gap 3-4 defensive scheme, that almost none of the other 3-4 teams play. Keith Brooking (ILB) is an excellent blitzer and Anthony Spencer (OLB) has played almost as well as Ware this year. Ratliff is not a prototypical 3-4 NT, he is much more of a 4-3 UT in this penetrating defense.

Where DAL struggles is in playing the run when the team can get 2 blockers @ the POA. Playing only one gap with their 3-4 leaves them susceptible to runs inside before the safeties can close. It is also why their pass rush and pass pressure are so consistent. They play the run on the way to the QB just like the 4-3 Tampa 2 DL does.

Luckily, DEN has been one the most efficient running teams in the NFL. Unfortunately, DAL has been the most efficent at running the ball. DEN's Defense will get its first true test versus DAL OL opening mack truck size holes in the running game. Whoever controls the LOS better will probably win the game, barring the TO battle.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:01 AM   #13
Mr. Elway
cakn patna
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Dallas Plays a single gap 3-4 defensive scheme.
Meaning everyone on the DLine will immediately attack one of the gaps, with the safety closing the edge - is that right?
Mr. Elway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:08 AM   #14
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Quanterus Smith was MY freakin Pick

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,062

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Elway View Post
Meaning everyone on the DLine will immediately attack one of the gaps, with the safety closing the edge - is that right?
For the most part, yes. It means they play the run gaps with seven players, unless they push a safety into the box. Sometimes the saftey will have a different gap than the edge, depending on the coverage and front called.

What is drastically different is the way the DL plays. In a one gap scheme, everyone attacks and can make a play. In a traditional 3-4, at least one DL, usually the NT, has 2 gaps and plays read and react.

DAL has a very aggressive defense, and their secondary gets exposed when they do not get pressure on the QB or the POA comes open on the run. It kind of makes them double minded and very slow to diagnose and read their keys. I would not want to play safety for that team.....
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:12 AM   #15
broncofan7
Ring of Famer
 
broncofan7's Avatar
 
BQ looks ALMOST as good as I do

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BIG D
Posts: 6,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Dallas Plays a single gap 3-4 defensive scheme, that almost none of the other 3-4 teams play. Keith Brooking (ILB) is an excellent blitzer and Anthony Spencer (OLB) has played almost as well as Ware this year. Ratliff is not a prototypical 3-4 NT, he is much more of a 4-3 UT in this penetrating defense.

Where DAL struggles is in playing the run when the team can get 2 blockers @ the POA. Playing only one gap with their 3-4 leaves them susceptible to runs inside before the safeties can close. It is also why their pass rush and pass pressure are so consistent. They play the run on the way to the QB just like the 4-3 Tampa 2 DL does.

Luckily, DEN has been one the most efficient running teams in the NFL. Unfortunately, DAL has been the most efficent at running the ball. DEN's Defense will get its first true test versus DAL OL opening mack truck size holes in the running game. Whoever controls the LOS better will probably win the game, barring the TO battle.
The local talk is about how much they are missing Greg Ellis ON THE FIELD (as opposed to the Diva -like attitude that he had off of it)--the fact that opposing offenses can focus this season on Ware and not have any threat coming from the opposite OLB spot--They are hoping that Victor Butler--a rookie, converted DE--can bring that pressure and he leads the Cowboys in sacks with TWO. Anthony Spencer has actually been deemed a disappointment ---he along with Mike Jenkins are falling out of favor with the Cowpokes--with many wanting to sit Jenkins for Orlando Scandrick and Spencer for Butler.

I keep on thinking that this game is going to come down to Kyle Orton's ability to consistently find the open receivers--and there should be PLENTY of opportunities--S Ken Hamlin is a liability in pass coverage--as is Bradie James (Kevin Burnett--now with the Chargers--is sorely missed by them on 3rd down and passing situations)--We should look to isolate Scheff /Graham on Hamlin and James as often as possible--Brooking is one dimensional--he bitzes well--that's it. Ratliff is a BEAST and I think he will give Casey problems due to Ratliff's lateral quickness and explosion--if we are having trouble containing him (he is great as rushing the passer and chasing down outside runs)--we need to run Buckhalter and jordan right at his A$$--he will wear down--and their 2nd team NT (junior Savaii)is average at best--

IF Orton can hold down his end of the bargain(I am VERY skeptical of him)--then we will win this game 27-23---otherwise we will not have enough in our running game to outscore Romo and company
broncofan7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:13 AM   #16
lex
Ring of Famer
 
lex's Avatar
 
The Broncos have been DisemBowlened

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 10,236

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Dallas Plays a single gap 3-4 defensive scheme, that almost none of the other 3-4 teams play. Keith Brooking (ILB) is an excellent blitzer and Anthony Spencer (OLB) has played almost as well as Ware this year. Ratliff is not a prototypical 3-4 NT, he is much more of a 4-3 UT in this penetrating defense.

Where DAL struggles is in playing the run when the team can get 2 blockers @ the POA. Playing only one gap with their 3-4 leaves them susceptible to runs inside before the safeties can close. It is also why their pass rush and pass pressure are so consistent. They play the run on the way to the QB just like the 4-3 Tampa 2 DL does.

Luckily, DEN has been one the most efficient running teams in the NFL. Unfortunately, DAL has been the most efficent at running the ball. DEN's Defense will get its first true test versus DAL OL opening mack truck size holes in the running game. Whoever controls the LOS better will probably win the game, barring the TO battle.

Good analysis.

Its funny how people in the kaygore thread were kvetching about a lack of xs and os threads but this thread has 13 posts in a day. But a thread about peter kind saying something bad about the broncos would already have five pages by now. People are so full of ****.
lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 12:00 PM   #17
SportinOne
Ring of Famer
 
SportinOne's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,750
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lex View Post
Good analysis.

Its funny how people in the kaygore thread were kvetching about a lack of xs and os threads but this thread has 13 posts in a day. But a thread about peter kind saying something bad about the broncos would already have five pages by now. People are so full of ****.
This, I will agree with.

Also, I LOVE Clady's chances against Ware or really anyone in the NFL at this point.
SportinOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 12:54 PM   #18
listopencil
[sarcasm]text[/sarcasm]
 
listopencil's Avatar
 
BOOM! Winner.

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The People's Republic Of California
Posts: 8,537

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Broncos FO
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post

What is drastically different is the way the DL plays. In a one gap scheme, everyone attacks and can make a play. In a traditional 3-4, at least one DL, usually the NT, has 2 gaps and plays read and react.
Seems like a bit of misdirection will really screw them over then, wouldn't it? I haven't noticed a lot of play action passing from Orton. I'm wondering if a PA/screen combo will blow their D wide open.
listopencil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 04:05 PM   #19
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,653

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lex View Post
Good analysis.

Its funny how people in the kaygore thread were kvetching about a lack of xs and os threads but this thread has 13 posts in a day. But a thread about peter kind saying something bad about the broncos would already have five pages by now. People are so full of ****.
Just cause it doesn't have as many posts doesn't mean people don't appreciate as much. I feel out of my depth in threads that deal with the real Xs and Os of football, but they're much better to read, so I just read and don't post.
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 10:38 PM   #20
the_turtle
Just Drafted
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Chalk View Post

The key to this game however is no Denver's O vs Dallas' D, its the opposite. It's how we handle Dallas' offense that will determine how this game is going to go. IF I am right, and to be fair I have been right so far on predicting how Denver is going to fare against their competition, then I expect Denver to give up no more than 1 TD and 2 FGs tops and Denver to put up 3 TDs, 2 by air, one by ground and 2 FGs, maybe 2 TDs and 3 FGs, either way it will be more than enough to defeat Dallas.
This hilarious to me! You think the Broncos will hold Dallas to 13 points? That's really funny! Their not the '85 Bears just yet... But the Broncos have #1 defense right? Yeah, but here's a couple things to remember about that...

First off, its only been 3 games, and the Broncos have faced 3 pretty weak teams. Let's see where they rank after 16 games, cause last season their defense ranked 29th, or 20 spots behind Dallas defense... Now their suddenly a dominant defense? I don't think so....

Secondly, if you recall 2 weeks ago, Dallas faced the #2 defense of the Giants, Dallas turned the ball over 4 times (none which were really forced by the Giants), and depite that, the Cowboys still put 31 points on them.... But the Broncos are gonna hold Dallas to 13 or less, right....

In Dallas' last 16 games with Romo, they've been held to 13 or less only twice!! They've scored 20 or more in 13 of those 16 games... Scoring 27 or more in 7 of those games... Andf Romo is 15-5 on the road for his career...

Honestly, the Cowboys defense isn't quite as good as it was last year, when they finished 9th in yards and 1st in sacks... However, they're not nearly as weak as many of you are making them out to be... Newman's a good CB. Jenkins and Scandrick are okay, but they can be beat by the Denver WR's. The question is, can Orton get them the ball routinely? We all know, the longer the pass, the less effective and accurate Orton becomes...

Mark my words, Dallas will win this game! 27-17

Last edited by the_turtle; 10-03-2009 at 10:51 PM..
the_turtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:09 PM   #21
BroncoDoug
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoDoug's Avatar
 
R.I.P. D-Will and D-Nash

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moline, IL
Posts: 2,819

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lex View Post
Good analysis.

Its funny how people in the kaygore thread were kvetching about a lack of xs and os threads but this thread has 13 posts in a day. But a thread about peter kind saying something bad about the broncos would already have five pages by now. People are so full of ****.
Wait?! what did Peter King say about the Broncos!?!?!? PITCH FORKS!!!
BroncoDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:14 PM   #22
Broncojef
Ring of Famer
 
Broncojef's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Great White North
Posts: 3,235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_turtle View Post
This hilarious to me! You think the Broncos will hold Dallas to 13 points? That's really funny! Their not the '85 Bears just yet... But the Broncos have #1 defense right? Yeah, but here's a couple things to remember about that...

First off, its only been 3 games, and the Broncos have faced 3 pretty weak teams. Let's see where they rank after 16 games, cause last season their defense ranked 29th, or 20 spots behind Dallas defense... Now their suddenly a dominant defense? I don't think so....

Secondly, if you recall 2 weeks ago, Dallas faced the #2 defense of the Giants, Dallas turned the ball over 4 times (none which were really forced by the Giants), and depite that, the Cowboys still put 31 points on them.... But the Broncos are gonna hold Dallas to 13 or less, right....

In Dallas' last 16 games with Romo, they've been held to 13 or less only twice!! They've scored 20 or more in 13 of those 16 games... Scoring 27 or more in 7 of those games... Andf Romo is 15-5 on the road for his career...

Honestly, the Cowboys defense isn't quite as good as it was last year, when they finished 9th in yards and 1st in sacks... However, they're not nearly as weak as many of you are making them out to be... Newman's a good CB. Jenkins and Scandrick are okay, but they can be beat by the Denver WR's. The question is, can Orton get them the ball routinely? We all know, the longer the pass, the less effective and accurate Orton becomes...

Mark my words, Dallas will win this game! 27-17
Willing to bet the score is reversed. Cowgirls aren't a top shelf team despite what the media seems to think.
Broncojef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:27 PM   #23
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,491
Default

I sort of think Broncos will need a couple big plays to win this. Punt return, defensive td something like that.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 12:17 AM   #24
the_turtle
Just Drafted
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncojef View Post
Willing to bet the score is reversed. Cowgirls aren't a top shelf team despite what the media seems to think.
What media have you been listening to? The majority of what I'm hearing is that Dallas will finish third in their division... And truthfully, I would have to concur with that. I myself don't think the Cowboys are going to the Superbowl this year... Heck, they'll be fortunate to even make the playoffs...

However, they don't have to be the best team in the NFC to beat up on a mediocre Denver team... Enjoy 3-0 while it lasts, the Broncos will soon be 3-5.....
the_turtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 10:25 AM   #25
epicSocialism4tw
Tebowing the long haul
 
all the way to the title

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 36,819

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lex View Post
Good analysis.

Its funny how people in the kaygore thread were kvetching about a lack of xs and os threads but this thread has 13 posts in a day. But a thread about peter kind saying something bad about the broncos would already have five pages by now. People are so full of ****.
Welcome to human behavior 101. People can tend to be more interested in controversy than theyre interested in thought.

Dont get shpilkis.
epicSocialism4tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Denver Broncos