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Old 09-15-2009, 08:24 PM   #1
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OK, I have stayed quiet on the whole Orton thing but I have came to this realization and I need a answer.

Why is it our offense was able to score 21 or more points almost every game last year and was barely able to score one TD against a sub par defense. I mean it has to point to Orton right?? What else has changed?? Am I missing something?? Oh and this is not a bash on Orton thred.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:26 PM   #2
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OK, I have stayed quiet on the whole Orton thing but I have came to this realization and I need a answer.

Why is it our offense was able to score 21 or more points almost every game last year and was barely able to score one TD against a sub par defense. I mean it has to point to Orton right?? What else has changed??
HC, OC, Kuper down, New RB, new sytem, new QB.

ANy other questions?
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:30 PM   #3
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The Bengals D isn't sub-par, but I don't see how anyone could be impressed with that game plan. We dropped a lot of balls but so did the Bengals. The biggest problem is going to be sacks. For all of the bad Cutler gets credit for he does need to be given more credit for keeping plays alive and not getting sacks. Orton taking that sack to take us out of field goal range was a bad play on his part. If that doesn't happen we don't need god to help us win that game.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:31 PM   #4
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HC, OC, Kuper down, New RB, new sytem, new QB.

ANy other questions?
HC I think did a good Job

Kuper down did suck but on the same hand he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

RB I think was an upgrade.

New system I will give you but I don't think that was the problem. If we had the same players last year running that offense we would have gotten 3 or more TD'd

So Again I think it points to QB
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:34 PM   #5
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HC I think did a great Job

Kuper down did suck but on the same hand he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball

RB I think was an upgrade.

New system I will give you but I don't think that was the problem. If we had the same players last year running that offense we would have gotten 3 or more TD'd

So Again I think it points to QB
No, you asked what else besides the QB changed.

You did not ask about an opinion on that.

But here's an opinion.

Early in the year most offenses are behind defenses. That is the case with most teams, even ones that don't have a new system. Not all, but most. Teams with new systems are almost ALWAYS behind the curve, especially when they have new QBs as well. Teams with new QBs, new systems AND new HCs and OCs and with their super stud starting Guard who didn't give up a single sack the season prior are going to likely struggle.

Add in teh fact that the new RB, while eventually may be an upgrade, didn't do jack squat (8 rushes for 19 yards) and receivers were dropping balls left and right and you have your answer.

You can point some on Orton sure, but there were plenty of problems to go around.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:37 PM   #6
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Oh, and for the record, we had a 5 game stretch last year where we didn't score 3 TDs in a game and 3/8ths of our TDs were rushing TDs. Since our run game was practically non-existant, that certainly didn't help.

And I disagree that our HC did a great job play calling. HIs personell decision to remove Buckhalter and insert Moreno into the lineup was a bad one when Buck was averaging well over 5 yards a carry and Moreno couldnt even muster half that.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:38 PM   #7
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I know maybe we could get Manning from Indy for Orton and a 2nd round pick since his Offense only scored 14pt. I'm sure they are upset too.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:39 PM   #8
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The Bengals D isn't sub-par, but I don't see how anyone could be impressed with that game plan. We dropped a lot of balls but so did the Bengals. The biggest problem is going to be sacks. For all of the bad Cutler gets credit for he does need to be given more credit for keeping plays alive and not getting sacks. Orton taking that sack to take us out of field goal range was a bad play on his part. If that doesn't happen we don't need god to help us win that game.
Your wrong, God was at the New England game.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:39 PM   #9
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No, you asked what else besides the QB changed.

You did not ask about an opinion on that.

But here's an opinion.

Early in the year most offenses are behind defenses. That is the case with most teams, even ones that don't have a new system. Not all, but most. Teams with new systems are almost ALWAYS behind the curve, especially when they have new QBs as well. Teams with new QBs, new systems AND new HCs and OCs and with their super stud starting Guard who didn't give up a single sack the season prior are going to likely struggle.

Add in teh fact that the new RB, while eventually may be an upgrade, didn't do jack squat (8 rushes for 19 yards) and receivers were dropping balls left and right and you have your answer.

You can point some on Orton sure, but there were plenty of problems to go around.
See now this is what I am talking about. Thanks man.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:41 PM   #10
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Your wrong, God was at the New England game.
Kneel the Fricken ball !!!!
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:44 PM   #11
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Oh, and for the record, we had a 5 game stretch last year where we didn't score 3 TDs in a game and 3/8ths of our TDs were rushing TDs. Since our run game was practically non-existant, that certainly didn't help.

And I disagree that our HC did a great job play calling. HIs personell decision to remove Buckhalter and insert Moreno into the lineup was a bad one when Buck was averaging well over 5 yards a carry and Moreno couldnt even muster half that.
I have to disagree with you here. I thought the play calling was good. It was not flashy like last year but I think that is something that we are going to see a lot of. I seems to work for NE.

As for Buckhalter I don't think he can make it a full game. Seems that there was a article on that before the season started. There were many on this board that were pissed because we paid that much for someone who could not play a whole game.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:46 PM   #12
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Your wrong, God was at the New England game.
No a player made a foolish play. While taking that kick out of the EZ was bad him trying to fight for a extra yard was flat out retarded. Players make mistakes. Our play was the longest ever game winning TD in NFL history, that is gods work.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:50 PM   #13
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I know maybe we could get Manning from Indy for Orton and a 2nd round pick since his Offense only scored 14pt. I'm sure they are upset too.
So you don't think there is much difference between Manning or Orton?
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:59 PM   #14
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No, you asked what else besides the QB changed.

You did not ask about an opinion on that.

But here's an opinion.

Early in the year most offenses are behind defenses. That is the case with most teams, even ones that don't have a new system. Not all, but most. Teams with new systems are almost ALWAYS behind the curve, especially when they have new QBs as well. Teams with new QBs, new systems AND new HCs and OCs and with their super stud starting Guard who didn't give up a single sack the season prior are going to likely struggle.

Add in teh fact that the new RB, while eventually may be an upgrade, didn't do jack squat (8 rushes for 19 yards) and receivers were dropping balls left and right and you have your answer.

You can point some on Orton sure, but there were plenty of problems to go around.
This! Coupled with the fact that Orton doesn't have the greatest arm strength and can't get the ball down the field consistantly. Those two throws at the end of the game seemed to float in the air forever. When we do throw it down field, guys need to catch a very easily catchable ball hense Marshall!
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:01 PM   #15
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I have to disagree with you here. I thought the play calling was good. It was not flashy like last year but I think that is something that we are going to see a lot of. I seems to work for NE.

As for Buckhalter I don't think he can make it a full game. Seems that there was a article on that before the season started. There were many on this board that were pissed because we paid that much for someone who could not play a whole game.
It's not that, just flip the amount of carries both Moreno and Buck got and everything is gravy. Buck was picking up good yardage, why fix something thats not broken? McD should have stayed with him a little bit more IMO.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:17 PM   #16
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Oh, and for the record, we had a 5 game stretch last year where we didn't score 3 TDs in a game and 3/8ths of our TDs were rushing TDs. Since our run game was practically non-existant, that certainly didn't help.

And I disagree that our HC did a great job play calling. HIs personell decision to remove Buckhalter and insert Moreno into the lineup was a bad one when Buck was averaging well over 5 yards a carry and Moreno couldnt even muster half that.
I dont think there was one run of Moreno's that I saw where Buckhalter could have done better. Moreno had a few times where he had to fight through clutter in the backfield.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:24 PM   #17
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OK, I have stayed quiet on the whole Orton thing but I have came to this realization and I need a answer.

Why is it our offense was able to score 21 or more points almost every game last year and was barely able to score one TD against a sub par defense. I mean it has to point to Orton right?? What else has changed?? Am I missing something?? Oh and this is not a bash on Orton thred.
You can complain about how Cutler's arm strength all you want but the realit is that even though he may throw INTs his arm strength alone makes the defense defend the whole field. It was the same thing in 2006 when Plummer's struggles was leading to the running game struggling. They put Cutler in there and suddenly the defense had to respect the pass more. It opens up the field. When you have limited armstrength like Orton, its like trying to win chess by almost exclusively trying to use your pawns. Orton is trying to throw short passes and a lot of the defense knows it.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:28 PM   #18
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No a player made a foolish play. While taking that kick out of the EZ was bad him trying to fight for a extra yard was flat out retarded. Players make mistakes. Our play was the longest ever game winning TD in NFL history, that is gods work.
I never said He changed the game He was there because He is a Belichick fan.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:02 PM   #19
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I don't know why people keep on this thing about Orton not getting the ball down the field. Didn't they say last night that up until the final minutes of the game Brady didn't have any completions over 20 yards, and he had at that time like 39 completions.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:09 PM   #20
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viclombardi: after reviewing tape, orton not as bad as he thought.

weve heard that like 3 times this year, as soon as he gets a bit more help from the team people will stop whining so much.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:30 PM   #21
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I never said He changed the game He was there because He is a Belichick fan.
Well if humans can make it from Cincinnati to Boston in a day I don't think god will have much trouble doing the same
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:35 PM   #22
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I don't know why people keep on this thing about Orton not getting the ball down the field. Didn't they say last night that up until the final minutes of the game Brady didn't have any completions over 20 yards, and he had at that time like 39 completions.
yes, but we know what Brady brings to the pats offense. We havent seen anything much from Orton and this offense. We love the defense and the win on Sunday but what week do we start complaining (more out loud) if this offense continues to struggle?
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:38 PM   #23
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I don't know why people keep on this thing about Orton not getting the ball down the field. Didn't they say last night that up until the final minutes of the game Brady didn't have any completions over 20 yards, and he had at that time like 39 completions.
Yes, but he SCORED TOUCHDOWNS. I don't think this has much to do with the Cincinnati game or the Bengals team ... Kyle was the same in Cincy as he's been all preseason: timid and physically limited. He has no fire.

Here's an interesting stat, I've stated it before, but it merits repeating:

In 12+ quarters - with the offensive starters - Stokley's "Immaculate Deflection" was just the second TD Orton has generated.

Two touchdowns in 12+ quarters. With the starters. That's unacceptable. No excuses, that is unacceptable.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:38 PM   #24
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yes, but we know what Brady brings to the pats offense. We havent seen anything much from Orton and this offense. We love the defense and the win on Sunday but what week do we start complaining (more out loud) if this offense continues to struggle?
If you took away the yards, the super bowl rings, MVP awards, the wins, the records Brady has, and the really really hot wife you pretty much have Kyle Orton.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:39 PM   #25
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yes, but we know what Brady brings to the pats offense. We havent seen anything much from Orton and this offense. We love the defense and the win on Sunday but what week do we start complaining (more out loud) if this offense continues to struggle?
Id say around week 5. If we continue to see the same stuff in Week 5 then, I'd say its time to panic.

But not after week 1. Considering that Marshall has been in absentia most of TC and preseason so timing isnt there, and Gaffney has been injured, and the "so-called" complex scheme with a new QB and an injured finger, there are plenty of reasons to understand WHY the team struggled offensively in week 1.

These reasons won't last long so if the offense doesn't improve then we can all be upset but not now.
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