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Old 08-30-2009, 11:44 PM   #1
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Jesus Christ. i swear this guy wanted to blow Cutler tonight. every other word out of his mouth was how great Jay is. every single praise he gave Cutler ended up sounding like him begging for Cutler's dick.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:48 PM   #2
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Well some people just don't know that Kyle Orton has won more NFL games then Jay and is better in the RZ then Jay. All kidding aside Cutler is a good talented young QB. Collinsworth also said that Jay speaks his mind and that doesn't make him popular.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:52 PM   #3
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Collinsworth was knowledgeable enough to point out how much it hurt losing Hillis last year. A lot of national media seem to be oblivious to this. The beginning and end of last season seems to get most of the attention. Hillis' stretch of brilliance was sandwiched between that and is often overlooked. Collinsworth won big points for knowing that.

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Old 08-30-2009, 11:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lex View Post
Collinsworth was knowledgeable enough to point out how much it hurt losing Hillis last year. A lot of national media seem to be oblivious to this. The beginning and end of last season seems to get most of the attention. Hillis' stretch of brilliance was sandwiched between that and is often overlooked. Collinsworth won big points for knowing that.

Go Gators!
Denver beats Buffalo in week 16 with a healthy Hillis.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:56 PM   #5
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I always thought Collinsworth was a closet bronco fan. He even said he wished Cutler was still here.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:56 PM   #6
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Denver beats Buffalo in week 16 with a healthy Hillis.
He had a rushing TD in every game during that stretch. Punching the ball in wasnt really as much of a problem with him. Plus our defense seemed more settled when we had the running game he brought.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:57 PM   #7
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he criticized BM too so he says what he feels. I respect it but would you rather have that jabba the Hutt (Madden) back in the NFL doing games?
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:02 AM   #8
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I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:04 AM   #9
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Collinsworth is a pretty good and knowlegeable guy. They can't all be Bronco haters and secretly desiring to blow Cutler. Maybe some of them just speak what they think is the truth. Have you thought of that?
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:05 AM   #10
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he criticized BM too so he says what he feels. I respect it but would you rather have that jabba the Hutt (Madden) back in the NFL doing games?
Yeah I would rather have this then some old dude saying you see what he is doing there? The QB takes the snap then the throws the football using a forward motion. That's called the foward pass. On second thought maybe we should bring Madden in here to talk to McD.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:06 AM   #11
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I like Collinsworth. Announcers in general just seem to get particularly excited about talented/big names QBs...which is also generally what fans do too. Sure it can go too far (i.e. Madden+Favre=love4ever), but I always enjoyed hearing Jaws rave about Cutler when he was with us. Just how it goes.

Hopefully Orton can play well and get whatever credit he deserves if he does so. If the Broncos start winning again then we can count on hearing plenty of accolades from the booth. Likewise, if Cutler has any troubles he may very well find himself under an inordinate amount of scrutiny. Nature of the business.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:07 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Popps View Post
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.
No, the move is definitely questionable but its more at Bowlens feet. And youre right, they did a poor job representing the facts. Its naive to look at Pats transcript where he says Jay is the man in January and not think the trade talks were more like the ending than the beginning. Something happened for things to change that radically. Goodman is another example.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:09 AM   #13
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Get used to it folks...
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
I like Chris C. He's generally a smart guy and gives good insight. I have no problem with people questioning the move, however... I'm not sure I buy his "just suspend him" theory.
I don't think Collinsworth is looking at the big picture as far as what went down, and where this team may end up in a couple of years.

People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.

People trying to link this **** for all of eternity just aren't looking at the right picture.
It may be fun, or good TV... but McDaniels and Co. just want to win playoff games, as do most of the fans.
Cris was right, Popps. If the FO had just said... "see you in the mandatory camp...a trade is not happening because you're under contract so your options are show up or retire"... he would have shown up.

The first step for McDaniels is to win a game....that is also what the fans want and need.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:18 AM   #15
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Cris was right, Popps. If the FO had just said... "see you in the mandatory camp...a trade is not happening because you're under contract so your options are show up or retire"... he would have shown up.

The first step for McDaniels is to win a game....that is also what the fans want and need.
Again, I don't want to rehash this... but I think there's more to it than just being able to say "see you at camp." I think money talks took place and both sides figured out very quickly they were in different places, and I think McDaniels and Co. may have also had some concerns about putting that kind of capital into a guy with Cutler's mentality.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't believe this was all just... "you called me a poo-poo face, I'm taking my toys and leaving."

I think what Cutler and Bus did was calculated and likely based on specific information, and the same for the Broncos front office.

As for winning a game, maybe we can let the season start and see what happens, first? Crazy, I know.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Popps View Post
People just want to make this about Jay v. Kyle. That's pure stupidity.

This argument should be this, plain and simple..

Does the collective group of moves made by the new Broncos staff make the team better or worse over a period of years.

That's it. Plain and simple. This isn't about one player. It's about the long-run and about what's best for the franchise. If Jay goes to 16 Pro Bowls from here out, I really don't care... as long as we get better. If he ends up in the CFL, I don't care... as long as we get better.
Exactly. There are some very natural reactions that seem to be driving a lot of how people interpret the trade. First, people instantly want to make direct comparisons: how Jay does vs how his replacement (Orton) does.

This just seems like the obvious way to view things (and it's a very convenient of simplifying complicated events to fit a media blurb). It's stupid, though, to reduce this to a QB swap: Chicago gave up the equivalent of an entire draft class for Cutler (at least).

To gauge what Denver actually received will require following several young players for several years. This is a lot more difficult than putting Orton's stats next to Cutler's every week (which, God knows, we'll see plenty of this year), but it's closer to the truth of the matter.

The good news is that, ultimately, it isn't a complicated matter. If the Broncos become a consistent playoff contender again, then we'll have the only verdict we need. It won't necessarily be a verdict that we were "right" to trade Jay or that the players we received were the key to winning. But it would show something more important: that the staff has made the team better, despite whatever turmoil came in the process.

No guarantee that's how it will play out, but until
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:53 AM   #17
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Unfortunately everything he said was correct.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:59 AM   #18
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He had a rushing TD in every game during that stretch. Punching the ball in wasnt really as much of a problem with him. Plus our defense seemed more settled when we had the running game he brought.
statistically our defensive points allowed dropped from 28 a game to under 20 when Hillis was starting and our running game didn't suck. Also our offensive points scored went up a TD when he was in.
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:02 AM   #19
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Collinsworth is a pretty good and knowlegeable guy. They can't all be Bronco haters and secretly desiring to blow Cutler. Maybe some of them just speak what they think is the truth. Have you thought of that?
i understand the announcers having their opinions and having a strong liking of certain players, but my god man, Collinsworth was gargling on Cutler's balls like Madden used to do with Favre.

i have no problem with an announcer having favorite players, but his entire broadcast revolved around Cutler, it was getting old.
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:03 AM   #20
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statistically our defensive points allowed dropped from 28 a game to under 20 when Hillis was starting and our running game didn't suck. Also our offensive points scored went up a TD when he was in.
I believe it. This is why the 2nd rated offense vs the 16th rated offense needs to stop. We were 2nd because we were too pass happy. When you pass, you have more clock stoppages. But we were 16th because we lacked the running game. I wouldnt say we were the 2nd best offense but we were closer to that than we were 16. If we would have bad more balance and someone like Hillis in the fold all year, we would have had more points and possibly not as many yards. But we also would have likely not given up as many points on defense.
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:10 AM   #21
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Again, I don't want to rehash this... but I think there's more to it than just being able to say "see you at camp." I think money talks took place and both sides figured out very quickly they were in different places, and I think McDaniels and Co. may have also had some concerns about putting that kind of capital into a guy with Cutler's mentality.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't believe this was all just... "you called me a poo-poo face, I'm taking my toys and leaving."

I think what Cutler and Bus did was calculated and likely based on specific information, and the same for the Broncos front office.

As for winning a game, maybe we can let the season start and see what happens, first? Crazy, I know.
Yeah... well. The front office had all the leverage and Cutler/Cook had none. Cutler was under contract. If they wanted to keep him, they could have just said "see you at camp". As everyone in the booth concurred... it's inconceivable to even consider trading a franchise QB for a career backup.

As for winning a game... McD's team has had 3 opportunities now... 2 of them (9'ers, Chickens) against weaker teams than we'll face in the regular season. Crazy, I know.
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:18 AM   #22
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Yeah... well. The front office had all the leverage and Cutler/Cook had none. Cutler was under contract. If they wanted to keep him, they could have just said "see you at camp". As everyone in the booth concurred... it's inconceivable to even consider trading a franchise QB for a career backup.

As for winning a game... McD's team has had 3 opportunities now... 2 of them (9'ers, Chickens) against weaker teams than we'll face in the regular season. Crazy, I know.
i am not saying this team is going to be great, but during our back to back super bowl years, we went something like a combined 1-7 during the preseason

on a side note, i believe we will be pretty good this year.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:05 AM   #23
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I like Chris...he's 1/2 full of **** and 1/2 right most of the time - just like you want your announcers. Nothing more boring that an announcer who's been to every game and practice and knows everything about everyone...what fun is that? Damn, I'll gladly take him over Madden everytime.
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:40 AM   #24
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I didn't get the sense that he was piling on at all. He said he wouldn't have traded a franchise QB like Cutler, but he also mentioned twice that there are stories about Cutler's attitude that may have had a lot to do with why he isn't in Denver anymore.

If you're hoping announcers aren't going to gape at Cutler's arm strength, I wouldn't listen to many Bears games if I were you. Cutler's got talent, but I still think we'll be better off without him in the long run.
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Old 08-31-2009, 04:10 AM   #25
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Cris was right, Popps. If the FO had just said... "see you in the mandatory camp...a trade is not happening because you're under contract so your options are show up or retire"... he would have shown up.

The first step for McDaniels is to win a game....that is also what the fans want and need.
Say Cutler retires instead of getting traded...then what? He'd be able to sign with another team anyways after he "unretires" like Brett Favre has numerous times...and then your searching the waiver wire for your starting QB...or if it happened before draft you'd have a rookie QB trying to run what is arguably the NFL's nost diverse offense.

At least by trading him we got a servicable QB who is 21-12 as a starter, two #1's and a 3rd.....Collinsworth's way we get zilch.
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