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Old 08-15-2009, 09:06 PM   #1
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Default our LB's in pass coverage

I'm not convinced that any of our OLB's can cover in space. Someone please convince me other wise. All of our OLB's are really converted DE - Moss, Crowder, Doom, Ayers - these guys are DE's being shoe-horned into playing OLB. They have probably never been asked to drop back and cover TE's or RB's until this year.

I'm mostly concerned when we match up with teams w/ dynamic TE's - Vernon Davis killed us on a couple of plays yesterday. As I recall, the plays where he came up big, the OLB over the TE blitzed and Andra Davis tried to stay with Vernon - terrible mis-match and a resulting big play.

How can Nolan possibly adjust to this? Seems to me that any time we play a team with a dynamic TE, we are in for trouble. Gates will be trouble in particular. I think DJ could run with Gates, but DJ plays on the weak side. The only thing I can think of is to go to some sort of big nickel formation and/or drop a SS over Gates, but that hurts us in the running game. Thank God Gonzo is out of the division.

I think the TE will be this D's Achilles heel this year.

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Old 08-15-2009, 09:14 PM   #2
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you mean pass coverage?
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:20 PM   #3
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Davis really isn't a cover guy. He'll struggle there from time to time. Williams is supposed to be, but I think he's a real problem at MLB. I think some of this can be corrected by working in Larson and Woodyard in the right situations.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwill07 View Post
I'm not convinced that any of our OLB's can cover in space. Someone please convince me other wise. All of our OLB's are really converted DE - Moss, Crowder, Doom, Ayers - these guys are DE's being shoe-horned into playing OLB. They have probably never been asked to drop back and cover TE's or RB's until this year.

I'm mostly concerned when we match up with teams w/ dynamic TE's - Vernon Davis killed us on a couple of plays yesterday. As I recall, the plays where he came up big, the OLB over the TE blitzed and Andra Davis tried to stay with Vernon - terrible mis-match and a resulting big play.

How can Nolan possibly adjust to this? Seems to me that any time we play a team with a dynamic TE, we are in for trouble. Gates will be trouble in particular. I think DJ could run with Gates, but DJ plays on the weak side. The only thing I can think of is to go to some sort of big nickel formation and/or drop a SS over Gates, but that hurts us in the running game. Thank God Gonzo is out of the division.

I think the TE will be this D's Achilles heel this year.
i am betting on Hill getting the responsibilty of covering the TE. i seriously doubt they are going to expect any of our former DEs to be capable of holding up against the TEs in our division.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:32 PM   #5
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Didn't DJ start out at B, and actually was pretty good in TE coverage?

Woodyard is pretty good in coverage, too.
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:03 AM   #6
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They suck in Madden for what its worth.
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:06 AM   #7
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Brian Dawkins will help in the way of TEs
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:20 AM   #8
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When we go to the nickel and get Woodyard in and another corner, we will be ok putting either Woodyard or a safety on the TE. But, you are right - in our base defense it is an issue. Hopefully our OLB's become better with time but, really, they are not expected to be great cover guys. It's more about creating confusion with the blitzes and mixing the coverages. Williams is the guy who is supposed to have those cover skills in our base defense but he has zero instincts for it. Larsen is supposed to be too slow but he is much better in coverage than Williams. The real answer IMO is to put our two best guys in at ILB regardless of money or size concerns - start Larsen and Woodyard.
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:11 AM   #9
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Brian Dawkins will help in the way of TEs
maybe 10 years ago, but now he in the box player and deep safety net at best. He doesn't have the speed to stay with the TE.
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:50 AM   #10
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Well, it depends on what the down and distance is, but thay have already experimented with Josh Barrett as a backup LB in the Nickel. He looked pretty promising last year.

However, you can't judge everything from the one preseason game.

Let's see what they have in mind when we play Chicago - because we know they will use TE's against us.
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:16 AM   #11
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Davis really isn't a cover guy. He'll struggle there from time to time. Williams is supposed to be, but I think he's a real problem at MLB. I think some of this can be corrected by working in Larson and Woodyard in the right situations.
get used to it , though I disagree with you about DJ Williams , DJ is no al Wilson ( I once saw Wilson cover Randy Moss deep down field ) But I feel DJ will grow in that position .........switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 will take time
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:36 AM   #12
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you mean pass coverage?
yes.

Pls give me some props for writing a mostly coherent post and that being my only foible, given the # of beers I had last night.. I think that was actually pretty good.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:45 AM   #13
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i think good receiving TEs will give us fits this year...
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:55 AM   #14
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When we go to the nickel and get Woodyard in and another corner, we will be ok putting either Woodyard or a safety on the TE. But, you are right - in our base defense it is an issue. Hopefully our OLB's become better with time but, really, they are not expected to be great cover guys. It's more about creating confusion with the blitzes and mixing the coverages. Williams is the guy who is supposed to have those cover skills in our base defense but he has zero instincts for it. Larsen is supposed to be too slow but he is much better in coverage than Williams. The real answer IMO is to put our two best guys in at ILB regardless of money or size concerns - start Larsen and Woodyard.

Speed/athleticism dont mean much if you make the wrong reads. If youre fast and make the wrong reads, it means youre further out of position, if anything.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:03 AM   #15
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This is one of the reasons I wanted DJ at an OLB spot.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:04 AM   #16
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Williams is supposed to be, but I think he's a real problem at MLB.
This is the other.
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:06 AM   #17
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ow do other 3-4's handle this? do they all just have natural OLB's?
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:08 AM   #18
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i think now that nolan has actual tape on these guys playing another team whos going full speed, he can make the necessary adjustments, be it scheme or roster...
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:57 AM   #19
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ow do other 3-4's handle this? do they all just have natural OLB's?
tweeners , DE that can be Outside Line backers ...we took a huge gamble this year on em ......Problem is alot of college teams run a base 4-3 , so it is hard to get a defined talent ......
I am a fan of the 3-4 when Joe Collier ran it here in Denver , but without a monster NT ..... we will see if it works
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #20
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tweeners , DE that can be Outside Line backers ...we took a huge gamble this year on em ......Problem is alot of college teams run a base 4-3 , so it is hard to get a defined talent ......
I am a fan of the 3-4 when Joe Collier ran it here in Denver , but without a monster NT ..... we will see if it works
We have some beef on the DL. It looked like they moved the pocket and were pushing some guys around.

I found it interesting that they stunted the DL then had the DE drop in to the underneath zone on a ZB. It worked until the Starter saw it 3 times in a row and run up the middle on a draw.

I don't like our LB's. They are fine in run support but Ayers was a non factor and didn't show any flashes of explosion and like the thread starter said we don't have outside guys that can cover.

I think Dawkins helps in the roles Elsid stated it remains to be seen if he can push the unit into respectablity.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:09 AM   #21
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We have some beef on the DL. It looked like they moved the pocket and were pushing some guys around.
I want ot believe that , I really do , I love a smothering defense and power running team , but Niners were running vanillia we was flat out game planned , I would have like to have seen more

Quote:
I found it interesting that they stunted the DL then had the DE drop in to the underneath zone on a ZB. It worked until the Starter saw it 3 times in a row and run up the middle on a draw.
Yeah , but that was just practice , run it now prefect it get it down pat then use it in the reg season ....

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I don't like our LB's. They are fine in run support but Ayers was a non factor and didn't show any flashes of explosion and like the thread starter said we don't have outside guys that can cover.
well thats where our safeties have to be on the ball ..Literally ..... we will have to stuff the run early and often , or we will become bend over Billies for the Play action ....

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I think Dawkins helps in the roles Elsid stated it remains to be seen if he can push the unit into respectablity.
I think he can , another thing is Champ is excellent in run support also ....
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:12 AM   #22
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We have some beef on the DL. It looked like they moved the pocket and were pushing some guys around.

I found it interesting that they stunted the DL then had the DE drop in to the underneath zone on a ZB. It worked until the Starter saw it 3 times in a row and run up the middle on a draw.

I don't like our LB's. They are fine in run support but Ayers was a non factor and didn't show any flashes of explosion and like the thread starter said we don't have outside guys that can cover.

I think Dawkins helps in the roles Elsid stated it remains to be seen if he can push the unit into respectablity.
Thats why Im not overly alarmed at the stats. We were caught more than once because of what youre saying regarding doing the same thing a lot. Their 2nd touchdown was a result of this.
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:01 PM   #23
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Kragen was hardly monster.
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:22 PM   #24
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someone mentioned in another thread that it looked like we are playing a 5-2...based on what I saw Friday and the background of the guys we have now, I'd have to say I agree.
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:25 PM   #25
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get used to it , though I disagree with you about DJ Williams , DJ is no al Wilson ( I once saw Wilson cover Randy Moss deep down field ) But I feel DJ will grow in that position .........switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 will take time
Yea, Williams is a real issue. He's not the least talented guy on our defense, but he's playing at a key position. He just has no idea how to diagnose a simple running play from the middle.

Honestly, I don't know where it ends with him. I wish there were some team out there in need of a solid 4-3 WLB, but his salary is so big, that's unlikely.

Honestly, I think Larsen learning on the job would wind up a better decision by mid-season, if not sooner.
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