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Old 08-15-2009, 01:33 AM   #1
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Default Orton and the McD Offense.

I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:37 AM   #2
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play book or not this is Orton's 6th year in the NFL and McD had picked him.
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:48 AM   #3
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play book or not this is Orton's 6th year in the NFL and McD had picked him.
It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:59 AM   #4
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no he's ****ing done DONE I TELL YOU
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.
Fair assessment 24Champ.

We'd all would have preferred 4 TD's and no picks in the first half. And Kyle has some things to clean up asap, but its FAR too early for coronary spasms.

Its not just Orton that is new here, the system, coaches .. and for Orton all the other players are relatively new as well. He did have a good first drive until that unfortunate throw in the end-zone.

That pick at least was easier to understand as Clement's made a nice reversal of his momentum when it looked like he was running away from Graham and made a good play on the ball. Graham looked open when Orton let go of that ball. The second pick was just a terrible throw into a totally covered WR and an easy pick for Bly.

The third one should have been complete for a long gain had he gotten a 6" more air under the ball. Those last two picks he cant be throwing in the regular season.

But these 'Sky is Falling' whiner's crack me up here though. At least they would sound alot more reasonable and thoughtful if they could wait until at least until the third or fourth game of the season, after so many changes this offseason, before jumping off the cliff. :-)

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:11 AM   #6
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It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.
3 picks in 19 passes. I have the game recorded too. McD has proven nothing in the NFL when it comes to QBs other then the hype he got from fans. Mike Shanahan coached with John Elway and Steve Young. Those guys are good.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:13 AM   #7
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It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.

Some? Would two, as opposed to three interceptions per half qualify. That's 'some' improvement.

I can't even wrap my head around how bad this guy might be if Moreno is out for the season and Hillis gets dinged at some point after 300 carries the first 6 games.

It seems clear to me that Brandon Marshall will do everything he can to 'honor' his contract without investing his emotional energy into winning.

Minus Cutler. Minus a dedicated Marshall. Minus Moreno. That leaves Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis, a great offensive line and the same old issues on defense.

Good job McDaniels. In a single off-season you've re-made a work of art in progress into a crayon scribble of a three year old.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:18 AM   #8
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Fair assessment 24Champ.

We'd all have preferred preferred 4 TD's and no picks in the first half. And Kyle has some things to clean up asap, but its FAR too early for coronary spasms.

Its not just Orton that is new here, the system, coaches .. and for Orton all the other players are relatively new as well. He did have a good first drive until that unfortunate throw in the end-zone.

That pick at least was easier to understand as Clement's made a nice reversal of his momentum when it looked like he was running away from Graham and made a good play on the ball. Graham looked open when Orton let go of that ball. The second pick was just a terrible throw into a totally covered WR and an easy pick for Bly.

The third one should have been complete for a long gain had he gotten a 6" more air under the ball. Those last two picks he cant be throwing in the regular season.

But these 'Sky is Falling' whiner's crack me up here though. At least they would sound alot more reasonable and thoughtful if they could wait until at least until the third or fourth game of the season, after so many changes this offseason, before jumping off the cliff. :-)
I don't think the 49ers are a better team than us, Broncos just shot themselves in the foot tonight.

My main concern right now is seeing improvement for next weekend against the Seachickens and later with the Bears. If it gets worse or not much has changed. I would hope McDaniels shakes it up a little. We are going to need to jump out of the gate at 3-0 to have a shot at a successful season.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:27 AM   #9
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For what it worth, Cassell had a horrible presason last year as well and threw several picks. He cleaned it up and had an amazing year last year once the regular season started.

Orton looked alright on the first drive but he clearly doesn't have a great arm. It's not weak but it's not a strong arm by any means. A stronger arm would have resulted in a TD on that first drive. He also could have thrown it higher which also could have resulted in a TD but would have prevented the pick. The 2nd INT was pathetic, the WR was NEVER even open for a second. The 3rd pick at least he made the right read and the WR was open but not a great throw. That LB did jump to snag it but it wasn't like he was jumping through the roof to get it. That ball needed another 2 feet to be safe. Clearly not a good night for him, I'd have to give him an F.

Simms looked solid. Yes, he went against 2nd team defense but also had 2nd team offense to work with so that's a wash. He chose his targets well, move around to buy time and threw the ball away when he had to. Simms gets a A-.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:29 AM   #10
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Some? Would two, as opposed to three interceptions per half qualify. That's 'some' improvement.
Well I am not going to expect 4-5 TDs and 400 yds from Orton in a game this season, he isn't that type of QB. He just needs to lead the team down the field early get a lead and not make a lot of mistakes like he did tonight. I'm not going to flip out over one half of pre-season football. Disappointed? Certainly I am, I think every Bronco fan is disappointed tonight as well.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:59 AM   #11
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It's not that simple. He was impressing everyone until he made a mistake of a crappy throw into the endzone. Couple that with the fact McDaniels is one of the better QB coaches in the league, I am going to look for some improvement from this game to the next.
I was more impressed with scheme, oline and the ability of the WR to get up then Orton last night. Most of that first drive the WRs found nice holes in the zones and sat down. There was a pass to the sidelines on that first drive that if the CB had been paying attention, could on been driven on for the INT and TD. It just took to long to get were it needed to be, and that was with clean pocket and quick out.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:47 AM   #12
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the only thing that bothered me (other than the obvious...turnover) about the first 2 picks was that he clearly stared Graham and Stokers down the entire time...then on the third one he GROSSLY underthrew a wide open guy

I do agree with you though on what McD was doing, it was pretty clear when the 2nd half was more simplified

the other thing that I did not like was, on all 3 INT's, Orton had all day to throw

ah well, I am keeping the faith...no reason for me to be all Jim Armstrong yet
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:59 AM   #13
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I was more impressed with scheme, oline and the ability of the WR to get up then Orton last night. Most of that first drive the WRs found nice holes in the zones and sat down. There was a pass to the sidelines on that first drive that if the CB had been paying attention, could on been driven on for the INT and TD. It just took to long to get were it needed to be, and that was with clean pocket and quick out.
Royal, yes. Stokley, yes. Gaffney? Where was he? I think he was thrown to once. Maybe he was the deep read that Orton never progressed to.

I wasn't impressed with our inability to bang it for short yardage. Whenever we went big it almost always resulted in a stop for no gain. I'm sure those kinks will be worked out, and we were not really opening up the playbook in those situations, but if there was one thing I would like to see us incorporate from New England's offense it's redzone and goalline scoring.
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:11 AM   #14
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Royal, yes. Stokley, yes. Gaffney? Where was he? I think he was thrown to once. Maybe he was the deep read that Orton never progressed to.

I wasn't impressed with our inability to bang it for short yardage. Whenever we went big it almost always resulted in a stop for no gain. I'm sure those kinks will be worked out, and we were not really opening up the playbook in those situations, but if there was one thing I would like to see us incorporate from New England's offense it's redzone and goalline scoring.
Gaffney appeared to forcing the safeties to play deep and clear out underneath stuff for Royal and Stokley. When Marshall comes back,it will be interesting to see how he is incorporated within the passing game. Going Deep like Moss isn't his game, he need to be getting the ball in the middle zone area on crosses, mesh routes,comebacks.

I think the running was crappy because of Jordan. As a back he has no lateral movement anymore and it takes to long for him hit the holes.
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:24 AM   #15
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I watched the game twice since I DVR'ed it, and talked to several other people after the game about Orton's performance. The biggest excuse I heard tonight, was that McDaniels offense is incredibly hard to learn. That may be true, and got me thinking that McDaniels is most likely testing out Orton to see what he can do with certain plays. Granted he played like dog**** tonight, but he did have a decent drive until that first interception, which I am positive if we had Marshall. Orton would have thrown a lob to Marshall to use his size.

My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer. Again I am not happy at all with Orton tonight, but it's the first pre-season game. I am not going to jump off the cliff...just yet. If Orton has a few more games like this, then there is always Simms who by all accounts looked pretty exciting in the second half.
And he's not throwing the entire playbook at Simms?
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:25 AM   #16
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Gaffney appeared to forcing the safeties to play deep and clear out underneath stuff for Royal and Stokley. When Marshall comes back,it will be interesting to see how he is incorporated within the passing game. Going Deep like Moss isn't his game, he need to be getting the ball in the middle zone area on crosses, mesh routes,comebacks.

I think the running was crappy because of Jordan. As a back he has no lateral movement anymore and it takes to long for him hit the holes.
Darius Walker looked a lot better than Jordan.
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:42 AM   #17
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I like the offense from what i saw of it in the first half . Orton i'm not impressed with at all. I'm not going into detail but I would like to see an upgrade in the offseason were kinda stuck with him for now.
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:59 AM   #18
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My theory is that McDaniels is throwing the entire playbook at Orton right now, and then we will see McDaniels tighten up the playbook to suit Orton's capabilities. Much like Shanahan/Kubiak did with Plummer.
In all honesty that makes me feel worse.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:21 AM   #19
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I dunno... I wasn't that impressed with his play prior to the meltdown. He threw very short, safe passes, he hardly inspired me in any way. One of his passes was very low, it was due to the skill of Royal that was even caught, to keep the drive going. He doesn't scramble, and his vision is just terrible.

On his first int, he had awesome protection, no one was even near him, and he threw a perfect pass... to the other guy. I'm afraid he is what he is. And even if he fixes his int issue, I still don't think he'll ever be more than an average QB in this league.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:24 AM   #20
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I dunno... I wasn't that impressed with his play prior to the meltdown. He threw very short, safe passes, he hardly inspired me in any way. One of his passes was very low, it was due to the skill of Royal that was even caught, to keep the drive going. He doesn't scramble, and his vision is just terrible.

On his first int, he had awesome protection, no one was even near him, and he threw a perfect pass... to the other guy. I'm afraid he is what he is. And even if he fixes his int issue, I still don't think he'll ever be more than an average QB in this league.
One thing that you can say about Orton is that he most likely would take a demotion like a pro.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:09 AM   #21
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All he did was take the outs SF's base D was giving him... hold for applause, lol? he's gonna have a much bigger wake up call in the regular season... or, say, vs Chicago week 3 in what may be the most embarrassing moment in modern Broncos history.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:11 AM   #22
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play book or not this is Orton's 6th year in the NFL and McD had picked him.
Only his fifth year.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:14 AM   #23
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10 years from now we're gonna say, "They traded WHO for WHO?"
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:16 AM   #24
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What helped Simms was the fact that Mcdaniels played more of a ball control offense in the 2nd half. Probably because Hillis can actually run the damn football instead of L. Jordan
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:18 AM   #25
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the only thing that bothered me (other than the obvious...turnover) about the first 2 picks was that he clearly stared Graham and Stokers down the entire time...then on the third one he GROSSLY underthrew a wide open guy

I do agree with you though on what McD was doing, it was pretty clear when the 2nd half was more simplified

the other thing that I did not like was, on all 3 INT's, Orton had all day to throw

ah well, I am keeping the faith...no reason for me to be all Jim Armstrong yet
I've seen posts on other boards as well, including one from a guy at the game, that Orton locks on a target and didn't look off a single defender.

Hell even Sanchez for the Jets was on ESPN last night where they demonstrated his exact ability to do that. He then completes a 50 yard pass downfield.
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