Broncos running toward improvement -- A Big Difference - The Orange Mane

Hulamau · 08-09-2009, 02:35 AM

This is what its all about and a big reason I'm so behind McD and the new direction!

Interesting, Tuten finally getting to do what he always wanted to do in conditioning he says. No more Shanny Club Med!

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13023755

Broncos running toward improvement
Wind sprints and full pads are part of practices geared to get the team playing tougher ball.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post

They run before practice and they run after.

They skip and they stretch. They pop pads and they stretch. They jog and they run. They run and they run some more.

"We're running a ton more this year," said Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler. "The good thing is it's getting easier each day."

Watch the Broncos warm up early in their practices at training camp, and huff through their sprints at the end, and it becomes obvious a new strength and conditioning coordinator is among the team's many changes this season.

The new conditioning coach is Rich Tuten.

All right, so Tuten is technically in his 15th season with the Broncos. He may as well be starting over, though.

"We're doing things I've always wanted to do," Tuten said. "It's called dynamic active stretching. It's stretching while moving. This year I was asked what we should do, and we're doing what I wanted to do. This is the most physical we've been in 15 years. I think it's really going to help us. I love it. This is football."

A case can be made that it wasn't a sieve defense, red-zone interceptions or poor special teams that doomed the Broncos to the worst collapse in NFL history last year.

It was the groin tear.

The Broncos lost Scheffler, starting tailback Selvin Young, star cornerback Champ Bailey and fullback-linebacker Spencer Larsen for extended periods last season because of ripped groins.

Scheffler's replacement, Nate Jackson, suffered a season-ending hamstring tear, as did Peyton Hillis, an emerging star tailback.

"I noticed during the OTAs (organized team activities) and camp, we haven't had the pulls that we've had in the past," Bailey said.

Tuten said for all the added running and stretching he is barking the players through this summer, nothing will condition them more than new coach Josh McDaniels' preference to practice in pads.

In the 14 previous seasons under Mike Shanahan, McDaniels' predecessor, the Broncos almost always practiced in shorts, helmets and the inner lining of shoulder pads. Shanahan believed in high-tempo, precision workouts without battering bodies.

His teams developed a pattern of starting fast, but wilting late.

McDaniels' professional coaching background is rooted in the NFL's more physical eastern region, where the general philosophies usually originate with this notion: Football is a contact sport.
.................................................. .........................

"It's like if you only run or worked out once a week, you're going to be sore and beat up after that workout. But if you work out all week, one day is not going to affect you as much."

Not everything about the Broncos' new conditioning routine is painful to witness. When 300-pound-somethings high step for 20 yards, there are occasional snickers and no reminders of the Carnegie-Philharmonic Ballet.

The most striking differences, though, are padded pants during practice and wind sprints following, even when there's two workouts a day.

"Some of those older guys, I think, were used to a certain routine and regiment during camp and they're adjusting to getting back to how it was in high school and college and how they grew up playing football," Tuten said.

"It becomes a mental thing too," said Broncos offensive tackle Ryan Harris. "Run a few laps, run a few sprints and you tell yourself: 'You can always do more.' "

A pertinent mind-set considering recent history. It seems the Broncos not only developed a penchant for weakening in December, they were pummeled in the fourth quarter — from 2006-08, they were outscored by a combined 104 points (355-251).

As the only franchise in a 32-team league that trains at altitude, performing poorly late in the race defies logic, while also partially explaining the Broncos' 13-12 home record since playing in the 2005 AFC championship game.

"It's all about the fourth quarter and the advantage of playing at altitude," offensive tackle Tyler Polumbus said of the Broncos' new conditioning routine. "It's different. Coaches are telling us, 'Put it in the bank.' Because it's amazing how many games are won in the fourth quarter."

Consistent collapses

Under Mike Shanahan, the Broncos were known for their fast starts and late-season fades. Broncos reporter Mike Klis points to statistical evidence of how the Broncos were poorly equipped for the stretch run:

• One turnover recorded by Denver's defense the last four games last season, tied with the Giants for the NFL low

• Two fourth-quarter takeaways in the 2008 season, worst in the NFL

• 32.3 points per game allowed by the Broncos in the last four games of 2008, worst in the NFL

• Offense led the NFL last season with 1,598 fourth-quarter yards, but was tied for 11th with 108 fourth-quarter points

• Tied for 25th in the NFL with a .357 winning percentage (5-9) in the final month of the past three seasons

• In two of the past three seasons, Broncos only had to win their final home game against teams with losing records — San Francisco in 2006 and Buffalo in 2008 — to reach the playoffs. The Broncos blew 13-0 leads in both games and lost both

• First team in NFL history to blow a three-game division lead with three games to play (2008)

Hulamau · 08-09-2009, 02:42 AM

I bet it takes Knowshon a week or so to catch up, just with the intensity of camp and conditioning once the pads come on with two a days starting tomorrow.

Not to mention spending all this hold out time in Georgia which might as well be sea level. Would have been smarter to train in Denver while waiting to iron out the contract thing but his agent obviously wasn't thinking of his what was best for Knowshon in the short term as well as the long run when he allowed him ... or likely told him to go back tgo Georgia as a further bargaining stance.

meangene · 08-09-2009, 03:00 AM

Another factor that I always felt hurt the team down the stretch in both the season and the games was a lack of size. That has really changed on defense - whether you believe the defense will be better or not it will be a much bigger front seven. You are seeing a gradual increase in the size of the OL too, even with the ZBS. I am glad to see they are trying something different with the conditioning. Often injuries are just bad luck but we have had way more than our share in recent years.

meangene · 08-09-2009, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulamau

I bet it takes Knowshon a week or so to catch up, just with the intensity of camp and conditioning once the pads come on with two a days starting tomorrow.

Not to mention spending all this hold out time in Georgia which might as well be sea level. Would have been smarter to train in Denver while waiting to iron out the contract thing but his agent obviously wasn't thinking of his what was best for Knowshon in the short term as well as the long run when he allowed him ... or likely told him to go back tgo Georgia as a further bargaining stance.

Maybe some altitude adjustment but he has been training in the brutal southeast summer heat so I bet he is in good shape. I remember when I first moved here to southeast Virginia my senior year in high school and went straight to two-a-day football practice - I thought I was gonna die. You work up a sweat just walking to the mailbox from the humidity.

Atwater His Ass · 08-09-2009, 03:35 AM

Doesn't mean anything until results are shown on the field. Let's not forget that Shanny won 2 Super Bowls here doing things his way; I think the guy knows how to run a training camp and practice. If it was as simple as doing more stretching and running, he wouldn't have been let go.

There are deeper problems on this team than the differences in how Shanny and McD run a practice.

RunSilentRunDeep · 08-09-2009, 04:00 AM

Interesting Tuten would take such a big swipe at Shanny.

Pseudofool · 08-09-2009, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep

Interesting Tuten would take such a big swipe at Shanny.

I thought so too; it was hardly veiled at all. It doesn't sound like McD is all that much of a control freak, rather he delegates...which I think is a good thing.

Paladin · 08-09-2009, 04:59 AM

[QUOTE=Hulamau;2499253]I bet it takes Knowshon a week or so to catch up, just with the intensity of camp and conditioning once the pads come on with two a days starting tomorrow. QUOTE]

Why? As I recall, he was here for all other OTAs. Further, I think the NFL prohibits players from TCs unless they have contracts. So, he could not have used the facilities at Dove Valley, but he could use those at UGA. I don't know his personal situation, but I am sure he crashed somewhere friendly and supportive. I didn't see it as a problem. If he passes his "test" - which I think he did already - what's the problem?

Shanny was so afraid of injries, he probably caused some......

SoDak Bronco · 08-09-2009, 05:57 AM

Tuten is well respected throughout the league, you see him at the rookie combine helping count the 225lb reps. I am glad McD was able to keep him, and let him do his thing.

loborugger · 08-09-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep

Interesting Tuten would take such a big swipe at Shanny.

Ya.

Early on in the Shanny regime - when Denver was a dominant franchise - Shanny was applauded for his practices. They were limited and designed not to injure players, esp the vets. Therefore, Denver became the kind of place that free agents wanted to come sign.

Now, we are all excited about the change. And why not? This late season fizzle is all too predictable and unpalatable. This team was built to run - at least under Shanny. The O-line is the strength of the team and we seem to have 2 or 3 good RB/FBs. It would be nice to see a return of bullies that could run right down a teams throat. You know, 3 & 1, and we are gonna run. Right up the middle. Try and stop us.

footstepsfrom#27 · 08-09-2009, 06:39 AM

We did all this in high school. I never understood Shanny's weird approach to practice without pads, and why their conditioning seemed to result in so many injuries. The fact that they trained in altitude only reinforces the bizarre nature of that. I like this approach a lot more.

UberBroncoMan · 08-09-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep

Interesting Tuten would take such a big swipe at Shanny.

You could say he was Tootin in whistle HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

...

Drek · 08-09-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

Doesn't mean anything until results are shown on the field. Let's not forget that Shanny won 2 Super Bowls here doing things his way; I think the guy knows how to run a training camp and practice. If it was as simple as doing more stretching and running, he wouldn't have been let go.

There are deeper problems on this team than the differences in how Shanny and McD run a practice.

Shanahan won two titles doing it his way when the ZBS was new, he had an all-world HB, and an OL that had more than a couple standouts on it.

Since then we've seen Shanahan try to maintain the same methodology with much different results.

Shanahan is the second best thing to happen to the Denver Broncos (the first being John Elway). But over the last couple seasons he had gotten complacent and set in his ways. As a result his performance declined and Bowlen did what he had to do. I'd love to see Shanahan back in the league sooner than later, but if he doesn't make some massive changes to how he conducts business as a HC he won't see much different results from what we had here the last few years.

_Oro_ · 08-09-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loborugger

Ya.

Early on in the Shanny regime - when Denver was a dominant franchise - Shanny was applauded for his practices. They were limited and designed not to injure players, esp the vets. Therefore, Denver became the kind of place that free agents wanted to come sign.

Now, we are all excited about the change. And why not? This late season fizzle is all too predictable and unpalatable. This team was built to run - at least under Shanny. The O-line is the strength of the team and we seem to have 2 or 3 good RB/FBs. It would be nice to see a return of bullies that could run right down a teams throat. You know, 3 & 1, and we are gonna run. Right up the middle. Try and stop us.

And maybe this is connected to some of those free agent busts we brought in as well.

Gcver2ver3 · 08-09-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulamau

• Tied for 25th in the NFL with a .357 winning percentage (5-9) in the final month of the past three seasons

• In two of the past three seasons, Broncos only had to win their final home game against teams with losing records — San Francisco in 2006 and Buffalo in 2008 — to reach the playoffs. The Broncos blew 13-0 leads in both games and lost both

• First team in NFL history to blow a three-game division lead with three games to play (2008)

after reading this, how is it not obvious that Shanny's time was up?...

_Oro_ · 08-09-2009, 07:01 AM

If Shanny's next job is a rebuilding situation, then he's got to realize he has to start punishing these guys in camp a little more. Tomlin went in and worked the Steelers good the first year. The next year he gavem a little slack and they won the super bowl. It'd be nice to see Shanny come back with a project team and turn them into a contender.

Kaylore · 08-09-2009, 07:41 AM

So did Tuten do things in a way he didn't like for all those years or did McDaniels just allow him to create the entire program from scratch himself and that's why he's "more happy" now? It seems odd to me that Tuten would work here for so long running a program that he wasn't 100% on board with. Maybe the money was good?

s0phr0syne · 08-09-2009, 07:42 AM

The whole lap running thing is something that Mangini did for the NY Jets too, didn't work out so well for them...

Kaylore · 08-09-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0phr0syne

The whole lap running thing is something that Mangini did for the NY Jets too, didn't work out so well for them...

That's a fallacious argument. You can't take a bad season and assume everything they did caused that season and is therefore bad, from their exercises, to their practice to how they tie their shoes. That's like saying we can't eat salads because Hitler ate salads.

s0phr0syne · 08-09-2009, 07:52 AM

Yes and no.

I'm not saying McD will blow because Mangini blew. I'm saying, as many others have rightfully pointed out, that none of the Beliclones have succeeded yet, and that this whole lap running business is getting it's fair share of positive fan and media reaction for no real reason.

Many coaches have come in and run easier camps to find success, and just as many have come in and run killer camps to find success. There's many other variable at work, so if I were arguing that the laps made the Jets suck, I would be wrong like you said.

But I'm not

Hulamau · 08-09-2009, 08:00 AM

[QUOTE=Paladin;2499273]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulamau

I bet it takes Knowshon a week or so to catch up, just with the intensity of camp and conditioning once the pads come on with two a days starting tomorrow. QUOTE]

Why? As I recall, he was here for all other OTAs. Further, I think the NFL prohibits players from TCs unless they have contracts. So, he could not have used the facilities at Dove Valley, but he could use those at UGA. I don't know his personal situation, but I am sure he crashed somewhere friendly and supportive. I didn't see it as a problem. If he passes his "test" - which I think he did already - what's the problem?

Shanny was so afraid of injries, he probably caused some......

Its the altitude. There are plenty of good facilities here too to work at other than Dove . Its not too big a deal , but with the limited time he has to get it together now, having his altitude air in his lungs and legs under him already would help. Of course Georgia was more cushy for him .. maybe not the best place for him to spend the holdout.

He is in shape yes but it will take him a week to get his wind AND while doing two a days at altitude. He'll survive, just would have given him another edge had he stayed in altitude shape as well.

skpac1001 · 08-09-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0phr0syne

Yes and no.

I'm not saying McD will blow because Mangini blew. I'm saying, as many others have rightfully pointed out, that none of the Beliclones have succeeded yet, and that this whole lap running business is getting it's fair share of positive fan and media reaction for no real reason.

Many coaches have come in and run easier camps to find success, and just as many have come in and run killer camps to find success. There's many other variable at work, so if I were arguing that the laps made the Jets suck, I would be wrong like you said.

But I'm not

When every year there is unusually high injury issues, and every year the team withers in the stretch, and nothing is ever done to address the issues other then hope we are lucky this year (Shanny's standard preseason disclaimer) and put players in the doghouse, it is completely appropriate to get excited about a change that specifically targets the issues to fix them with work rather then crossing our fingers. Working to fix chronic issues rather then using them as excuses is a welcome change to me.

JCMElway · 08-09-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meangene

Maybe some altitude adjustment but he has been training in the brutal southeast summer heat so I bet he is in good shape. I remember when I first moved here to southeast Virginia my senior year in high school and went straight to two-a-day football practice - I thought I was gonna die. You work up a sweat just walking to the mailbox from the humidity.

He was probably training in a practice bubble.

Wes Mantooth · 08-09-2009, 09:45 AM

Does this change anyone's mind regarding Tuten and Greek?

bpc · 08-09-2009, 09:51 AM

I'm a fan of physical and I think stretching is imperative.

I don't think the late season losses were from conditioning though. We had the exact same regime winning super bowls.

Ultimately wins and losses come down to a matter of luck and also talent. Our defense didn't have either last year.

08-09-2009, 02:35 AM	#1
Hulamau Polynesian Paralysis In the Pocket Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hulaville and Sedona Posts: 8,033 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eric Decker	Broncos running toward improvement -- A Big Difference This is what its all about and a big reason I'm so behind McD and the new direction! Interesting, Tuten finally getting to do what he always wanted to do in conditioning he says. No more Shanny Club Med! http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13023755 Broncos running toward improvement Wind sprints and full pads are part of practices geared to get the team playing tougher ball. By Mike Klis The Denver Post They run before practice and they run after. They skip and they stretch. They pop pads and they stretch. They jog and they run. They run and they run some more. "We're running a ton more this year," said Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler. "The good thing is it's getting easier each day." Watch the Broncos warm up early in their practices at training camp, and huff through their sprints at the end, and it becomes obvious a new strength and conditioning coordinator is among the team's many changes this season. The new conditioning coach is Rich Tuten. All right, so Tuten is technically in his 15th season with the Broncos. He may as well be starting over, though. "We're doing things I've always wanted to do," Tuten said. "It's called dynamic active stretching. It's stretching while moving. This year I was asked what we should do, and we're doing what I wanted to do. This is the most physical we've been in 15 years. I think it's really going to help us. I love it. This is football." A case can be made that it wasn't a sieve defense, red-zone interceptions or poor special teams that doomed the Broncos to the worst collapse in NFL history last year. It was the groin tear. The Broncos lost Scheffler, starting tailback Selvin Young, star cornerback Champ Bailey and fullback-linebacker Spencer Larsen for extended periods last season because of ripped groins. Scheffler's replacement, Nate Jackson, suffered a season-ending hamstring tear, as did Peyton Hillis, an emerging star tailback. "I noticed during the OTAs (organized team activities) and camp, we haven't had the pulls that we've had in the past," Bailey said. Tuten said for all the added running and stretching he is barking the players through this summer, nothing will condition them more than new coach Josh McDaniels' preference to practice in pads. In the 14 previous seasons under Mike Shanahan, McDaniels' predecessor, the Broncos almost always practiced in shorts, helmets and the inner lining of shoulder pads. Shanahan believed in high-tempo, precision workouts without battering bodies. His teams developed a pattern of starting fast, but wilting late. McDaniels' professional coaching background is rooted in the NFL's more physical eastern region, where the general philosophies usually originate with this notion: Football is a contact sport. .................................................. ......................... "It's like if you only run or worked out once a week, you're going to be sore and beat up after that workout. But if you work out all week, one day is not going to affect you as much." Not everything about the Broncos' new conditioning routine is painful to witness. When 300-pound-somethings high step for 20 yards, there are occasional snickers and no reminders of the Carnegie-Philharmonic Ballet. The most striking differences, though, are padded pants during practice and wind sprints following, even when there's two workouts a day. "Some of those older guys, I think, were used to a certain routine and regiment during camp and they're adjusting to getting back to how it was in high school and college and how they grew up playing football," Tuten said. "It becomes a mental thing too," said Broncos offensive tackle Ryan Harris. "Run a few laps, run a few sprints and you tell yourself: 'You can always do more.' " A pertinent mind-set considering recent history. It seems the Broncos not only developed a penchant for weakening in December, they were pummeled in the fourth quarter — from 2006-08, they were outscored by a combined 104 points (355-251). As the only franchise in a 32-team league that trains at altitude, performing poorly late in the race defies logic, while also partially explaining the Broncos' 13-12 home record since playing in the 2005 AFC championship game. "It's all about the fourth quarter and the advantage of playing at altitude," offensive tackle Tyler Polumbus said of the Broncos' new conditioning routine. "It's different. Coaches are telling us, 'Put it in the bank.' Because it's amazing how many games are won in the fourth quarter." Consistent collapses Under Mike Shanahan, the Broncos were known for their fast starts and late-season fades. Broncos reporter Mike Klis points to statistical evidence of how the Broncos were poorly equipped for the stretch run: • One turnover recorded by Denver's defense the last four games last season, tied with the Giants for the NFL low • Two fourth-quarter takeaways in the 2008 season, worst in the NFL • 32.3 points per game allowed by the Broncos in the last four games of 2008, worst in the NFL • Offense led the NFL last season with 1,598 fourth-quarter yards, but was tied for 11th with 108 fourth-quarter points • Tied for 25th in the NFL with a .357 winning percentage (5-9) in the final month of the past three seasons • In two of the past three seasons, Broncos only had to win their final home game against teams with losing records — San Francisco in 2006 and Buffalo in 2008 — to reach the playoffs. The Broncos blew 13-0 leads in both games and lost both • First team in NFL history to blow a three-game division lead with three games to play (2008)

08-09-2009, 07:41 AM	#17
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,028 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	So did Tuten do things in a way he didn't like for all those years or did McDaniels just allow him to create the entire program from scratch himself and that's why he's "more happy" now? It seems odd to me that Tuten would work here for so long running a program that he wasn't 100% on board with. Maybe the money was good? Last edited by Kaylore; 08-09-2009 at 07:44 AM..

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08-09-2009, 02:42 AM	#2
Hulamau Polynesian Paralysis In the Pocket Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hulaville and Sedona Posts: 8,033 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eric Decker	I bet it takes Knowshon a week or so to catch up, just with the intensity of camp and conditioning once the pads come on with two a days starting tomorrow. Not to mention spending all this hold out time in Georgia which might as well be sea level. Would have been smarter to train in Denver while waiting to iron out the contract thing but his agent obviously wasn't thinking of his what was best for Knowshon in the short term as well as the long run when he allowed him ... or likely told him to go back tgo Georgia as a further bargaining stance.

08-09-2009, 03:00 AM	#3
meangene Ring of Famer Offseason Mode Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,075	Another factor that I always felt hurt the team down the stretch in both the season and the games was a lack of size. That has really changed on defense - whether you believe the defense will be better or not it will be a much bigger front seven. You are seeing a gradual increase in the size of the OL too, even with the ZBS. I am glad to see they are trying something different with the conditioning. Often injuries are just bad luck but we have had way more than our share in recent years.

08-09-2009, 03:35 AM	#5
Atwater His Ass Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,360 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Doesn't mean anything until results are shown on the field. Let's not forget that Shanny won 2 Super Bowls here doing things his way; I think the guy knows how to run a training camp and practice. If it was as simple as doing more stretching and running, he wouldn't have been let go. There are deeper problems on this team than the differences in how Shanny and McD run a practice.

08-09-2009, 04:00 AM	#6
RunSilentRunDeep Ring of Famer I root for laundry Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,403 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	Interesting Tuten would take such a big swipe at Shanny.

08-09-2009, 04:59 AM	#8
Paladin Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,150	[QUOTE=Hulamau;2499253]I bet it takes Knowshon a week or so to catch up, just with the intensity of camp and conditioning once the pads come on with two a days starting tomorrow. QUOTE] Why? As I recall, he was here for all other OTAs. Further, I think the NFL prohibits players from TCs unless they have contracts. So, he could not have used the facilities at Dove Valley, but he could use those at UGA. I don't know his personal situation, but I am sure he crashed somewhere friendly and supportive. I didn't see it as a problem. If he passes his "test" - which I think he did already - what's the problem? Shanny was so afraid of injries, he probably caused some......

08-09-2009, 05:57 AM	#9
SoDak Bronco Lace em' up and lets go!! Von Miller aka QB Killa Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Dakota Posts: 4,132 Adopt-a-Bronco: Robert Ayers	Tuten is well respected throughout the league, you see him at the rookie combine helping count the 225lb reps. I am glad McD was able to keep him, and let him do his thing.

08-09-2009, 06:39 AM	#11
footstepsfrom#27 helmet to helmet hitter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 16,117 Adopt-a-Bronco: Joe Mays	We did all this in high school. I never understood Shanny's weird approach to practice without pads, and why their conditioning seemed to result in so many injuries. The fact that they trained in altitude only reinforces the bizarre nature of that. I like this approach a lot more.

08-09-2009, 07:01 AM	#16
_Oro_ Formerly known as Casson *Don't run that sht this way.** Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Montréal Posts: 1,199 Adopt-a-Bronco: - R. Ayers	If Shanny's next job is a rebuilding situation, then he's got to realize he has to start punishing these guys in camp a little more. Tomlin went in and worked the Steelers good the first year. The next year he gavem a little slack and they won the super bowl. It'd be nice to see Shanny come back with a project team and turn them into a contender.

08-09-2009, 07:42 AM	#18
s0phr0syne Symbiotic Absorb and Redirect Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,592 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	The whole lap running thing is something that Mangini did for the NY Jets too, didn't work out so well for them...

08-09-2009, 07:52 AM	#20
s0phr0syne Symbiotic Absorb and Redirect Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,592 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Yes and no. I'm not saying McD will blow because Mangini blew. I'm saying, as many others have rightfully pointed out, that none of the Beliclones have succeeded yet, and that this whole lap running business is getting it's fair share of positive fan and media reaction for no real reason. Many coaches have come in and run easier camps to find success, and just as many have come in and run killer camps to find success. There's many other variable at work, so if I were arguing that the laps made the Jets suck, I would be wrong like you said. But I'm not

08-09-2009, 09:45 AM	#24
Wes Mantooth Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,446	Does this change anyone's mind regarding Tuten and Greek?

08-09-2009, 09:51 AM	#25
bpc "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" 1 sword keeps another in the sheath Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 12,568 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I'm a fan of physical and I think stretching is imperative. I don't think the late season losses were from conditioning though. We had the exact same regime winning super bowls. Ultimately wins and losses come down to a matter of luck and also talent. Our defense didn't have either last year.