Congress is fighting the American people

[Bob]

And they think they wont loose thier jobs in mass in middle America? On Healthcare reform, the people dont want government to take it over. Poll afetr poll, that is not a Huffington creation, reflect this fact. Sure we all want to reform healthcare, and improve it, or increase access, but WE DONT want government running it, or making these choices. If they are so freaking stupid to believe that the 95% of what anger that is being seen are just drug reps dressed in t-shirts, they deserve to become unemployed. Some are still not listening -- and even if Acorn creates 1000's of imaginary voters, it wont matter. Media is not helping their prospects either, by misrepresenting the facts on this issue, or those protesting and speaking up.

But the Blue Dogs, and any R's that dont respect our Liberties, they will be voted out! What is important now, is getting folks to run for office that dont care about right and left, but think in up and down terms, and that honor our traditions and small government -- more than other Socialist and Communist nations.

[Rohirrim]

I saw a funny thing on Chris Matthews yesterday. A bunch of people who were screaming down their congressional rep and shouting, "Socialism!" and "No government run health program!"

Then, the rep asked them, "Raise your hands if you have Medicare." Half the room raised their hands.



I guess they like "their" socialized medical program run by the government. They just want to make sure nobody else gets it.

[Dukes]

Isn't Medicare almost bankrupt?

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Dukes

Isn't Medicare almost bankrupt?

I wouldn't say it's bankrupt. But it funds itself off social security. Medicare, Medicaid, scp,VA, and SS consume more than 50 percent of our yearly budget. That's before one road is paved. The other killer is defense spending. Since we are in a deficit I would say yes...it's bankrupt and insolvent.

[Rohirrim]

Please make your suggestions about how the elderly, who can no longer work, can receive medical care without having Medicare...

I know! We'll put their asses on COBRA. Let 'em try paying $800 a month for healthcare like the rest of us. That will euthanize their old asses.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by Dukes

Isn't Medicare almost bankrupt?

yeah did you forget about dubya's drug plan already?

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Please make your suggestions about how the elderly, who can no longer work, can receive medical care without having Medicare...

I know! We'll put their asses on COBRA. Let 'em try paying $800 a month for healthcare like the rest of us. That will euthanize their old asses.

Don't ask Garcia that question. His standard aswer will be: "They should have planned for it, or ask their family/ friends for help".

They should have also planned for the collapse of their retirement portfolios.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

Don't ask Garcia that question. His standard aswer will be: "They should have planned for it, or ask their family/ friends for help".

They should have also planned for the collapse of their retirement portfolios.

I am not in favor off stripping away that which people have already paid into. Unfortunately these systems are built on being funded by the young. This is the problem with these programs implemented under FDR with the best of intentions. So what Roh has asked is the million dollar question. How do we eliminate these programs while maintaining what people have already paid into without burdening the young so they can make their arrangements for their retirement?

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Bob

And they think they wont loose thier jobs in mass in middle America? On Healthcare reform, the people dont want government to take it over. Poll afetr poll, that is not a Huffington creation, reflect this fact.

Time: 7/27-28/09

"Would you favor or oppose a health care bill that provides for the
following? . . ."

"Provides coverage for almost all Americans, even if the government needs to subsidize health care for those who can’t afford it."

Approve: 63
Disapprove: 31
Unsure: 6

---

"Creates a government-sponsored public health insurance option to compete with private health insurance plans."

Approve: 56
Disapprove: 36
Unsure: 8

---

"Creates a national single-payer plan similar to Medicare for all, in which the government would provide health care insurance to all Americans."

Approve: 49
Disapprove: 46
Unsure: 5

-----------------

CBS/NYT 7/24-28/09

"Would you favor or oppose the government offering everyone a government-administered health insurance plan -- something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get -- that would compete with private health insurance plans?"

Favor: 66
Oppose: 27
Unsure: 7

-----------------

WSJ/NBC 7/24-27/09

"The plan requires that health insurance companies cover people with pre-existing medical conditions. It also requires all but the smallest employers to provide health coverage for their employees, or pay a percentage of their payroll to help fund coverage for the uninsured. Families and individuals with lower- and middle-incomes would receive tax credits to help them afford insurance coverage. Some of the funding for this plan would come from raising taxes on wealthier Americans.

Do you favor or oppose this plan?"

Favor: 56
Oppose: 38
Other: 6

[frerottenextelway]

The problem with Left/Right debates, as shown above, is the Right just totally disregards the facts. You can't have debates if one group resides in an alternative reality.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

The problem with Left/Right debates, as shown above, is the Right just totally disregards the facts. You can't have debates if one group resides in an alternative reality.

Yes, always fun to cheerypick poll numbers.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bob

And they think they wont loose thier jobs in mass in middle America? On Healthcare reform, the people dont want government to take it over. Poll afetr poll, that is not a Huffington creation, reflect this fact. Sure we all want to reform healthcare, and improve it, or increase access, but WE DONT want government running it, or making these choices. If they are so freaking stupid to believe that the 95% of what anger that is being seen are just drug reps dressed in t-shirts, they deserve to become unemployed. Some are still not listening -- and even if Acorn creates 1000's of imaginary voters, it wont matter. Media is not helping their prospects either, by misrepresenting the facts on this issue, or those protesting and speaking up.

But the Blue Dogs, and any R's that dont respect our Liberties, they will be voted out! What is important now, is getting folks to run for office that dont care about right and left, but think in up and down terms, and that honor our traditions and small government -- more than other Socialist and Communist nations.

.hey Bob , you really should invite me to your home planet , I will bring Potato Salad and the Hamburger , we will have a big ole Bar -B-Que .........

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by barryr

Yes, always fun to cheerypick poll numbers.

Here's another

PEW Research:

"Now I'd like to ask you about some of the specific proposals being considered to address health care. Would you favor or oppose [see below]?"

"Requiring that all Americans have health insurance, with the government providing financial help for those who can't afford it"

Favor: 65
Oppose: 29
Other: 6

"A government health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans"

Favor: 52
Oppose: 37
Other :10

That's 8 questions from 4 different companies. All them specifically asked about government involvement, as was mentioned by the OP.

[Rohirrim]

What this really boils down to is that the Right refuses to accept the fact that they got trounced in the last election. They want to pretend like it didn't happen. So what they're going to do is yell and scream to stop the Dems from governing. In other words, they are engaged in blatantly anti-democratic obstructionism.

They remind me of those singers who really suck and get tossed off of American Idol so they start pleading with the judges, "I'm better than everybody else! You can't cut me! Please don't cut me! This means everything to me. Pleeeeeeeeze!" Boo hoo hoo.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

I am not in favor off stripping away that which people have already paid into. Unfortunately these systems are built on being funded by the young. This is the problem with these programs implemented under FDR with the best of intentions. So what Roh has asked is the million dollar question. How do we eliminate these programs while maintaining what people have already paid into without burdening the young so they can make their arrangements for their retirement?

Wouldn't want to burden the young. Don't bother any af the Gen X,Y and ****ing Z. They're too busy playing x-box, getting pierced and sucking on the teat of the parents.

[Broncojef]

[QUOTE=Rohirrim;2496368]What this really boils down to is that the Right refuses to accept the fact that they got trounced in the last election. They want to pretend like it didn't happen. So what they're going to do is yell and scream to stop the Dems from governing. In other words, they are engaged in blatantly anti-democratic obstructionism.

QUOTE]

The Democrats own the House and Senate...all of Congress you own, no one can stop you from governing. The person now president was the furthest left person in all of Congress. make no bones you guys won and you have control, all the crap currently being passed (bloated budgets, stimulus bills, cap and trade, buying American companies, giving untold/untracked money to the private Federal reserve, devaluing the dollar, forcing inflation, killing industry and company growth) and all the things that will harm this country are on your watch. Pass whatever legislation you want, do whatever insane things you believe to be right but EVERY American has the right to stand up to be heard and to protest things that we feel are wrong. There is nothing anti-democratic or un-American in protesting and demanding change. All voices should be heard and when they aren't you aren't living in America. The only reason people are up in arms and Obama wanted to pass this bill so quickly is its harmful and a bad bill longterm and he didn't want the American scrutiny that time will afford.

[TailgateNut]

[QUOTE=Broncojef;2497294]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

What this really boils down to is that the Right refuses to accept the fact that they got trounced in the last election. They want to pretend like it didn't happen. So what they're going to do is yell and scream to stop the Dems from governing. In other words, they are engaged in blatantly anti-democratic obstructionism.

QUOTE]

The Democrats own the House and Senate...all of Congress you own, no one can stop you from governing. The person now president was the furthest left person in all of Congress. make no bones you guys won and you have control, all the crap currently being passed (bloated budgets, stimulus bills, cap and trade, buying American companies, giving untold/untracked money to the private Federal reserve, devaluing the dollar, forcing inflation, killing industry and company growth) and all the things that will harm this country are on your watch. Pass whatever legislation you want, do whatever insane things you believe to be right but EVERY American has the right to stand up to be heard and to protest things that we feel are wrong. There is nothing anti-democratic or un-American in protesting and demanding change. All voices should be heard and when they aren't you aren't living in America. The only reason people are up in arms and Obama wanted to pass this bill so quickly is its harmful and a bad bill longterm and he didn't want the American scrutiny that time will afford.

...you forgot to add: ....but it was fine when the Bush Administration filter attendees to their "propaganda meetings".

[Rohirrim]

[QUOTE=Broncojef;2497294]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

What this really boils down to is that the Right refuses to accept the fact that they got trounced in the last election. They want to pretend like it didn't happen. So what they're going to do is yell and scream to stop the Dems from governing. In other words, they are engaged in blatantly anti-democratic obstructionism.

QUOTE]

The Democrats own the House and Senate...all of Congress you own, no one can stop you from governing. The person now president was the furthest left person in all of Congress. make no bones you guys won and you have control, all the crap currently being passed (bloated budgets, stimulus bills, cap and trade, buying American companies, giving untold/untracked money to the private Federal reserve, devaluing the dollar, forcing inflation, killing industry and company growth) and all the things that will harm this country are on your watch. Pass whatever legislation you want, do whatever insane things you believe to be right but EVERY American has the right to stand up to be heard and to protest things that we feel are wrong. There is nothing anti-democratic or un-American in protesting and demanding change. All voices should be heard and when they aren't you aren't living in America. The only reason people are up in arms and Obama wanted to pass this bill so quickly is its harmful and a bad bill longterm and he didn't want the American scrutiny that time will afford.

Like I ask every person who goes nuts on this stuff: What would you have done? Let the banks fail? Let the auto industry collapse? Let the giant insurers like AIG fall? People act like this was Obama's "program." He is simply an elected president dealing with a catastrophe that was dropped in his lap by the previous administration. I don't see a whole lot of choice going on here. Health care costs are 1 of every 6 dollars of GDP now. In a year or two they'll be 1 of every 5. So, what do we do?

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

The problem with Left/Right debates, as shown above, is the Right just totally disregards the facts. You can't have debates if one group resides in an alternative reality.

I think the Government should mandate some kind of truth commission to create a public debate where the facts can be presented without bias. The press used to provide that function but Rupert Murdoch has already stated that the days of free content are dead. Wait. you mean one of our checks and balances has a price tag on it now? The fundementals have changed.

[Broncojef]

[QUOTE=Rohirrim;2497365]

Originally Posted by Broncojef

Like I ask every person who goes nuts on this stuff: What would you have done? Let the banks fail? Let the auto industry collapse? Let the giant insurers like AIG fall? People act like this was Obama's "program." He is simply an elected president dealing with a catastrophe that was dropped in his lap by the previous administration. I don't see a whole lot of choice going on here. Health care costs are 1 of every 6 dollars of GDP now. In a year or two they'll be 1 of every 5. So, what do we do?

Nothing at all can ever be saved financially until the Federal Reserve is brought under control and scrutinized. Everyone goes so crazy that big industry needs regulation but none is ever given to the most influencial privately run institution with control of all our money. Until they are brought under control everything else is a lost cause. There must be stability and a net provided for our financial institutions so far as I can tell the guys being put in control are corrupt and most of our problem. As for the auto industry and other institutions YES, let them fail, we are a capitalistic nation, if the UAW and their bloated salaries cannot produce a good product for a buyable price then scrap the company and start something new that does work. We are on a sinking ship and so far barry as the president is throwing anchors at drowning folks cause its better than doing nothing. Again, I have no issue with health care reform but lets have the debate and do whats right for folks in a well thought out way rather than designing a 1000+ page document and forcing people to sign the bill before they even read it.

[Broncojef]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

The problem with Left/Right debates, as shown above, is the Right just totally disregards the facts. You can't have debates if one group resides in an alternative reality.

Cherry picking polls created by those with an agenda or stating a lie long enough that people gradually take it as reality does not equate to a fact. Folks from the left don't want debate or others to have a voice, they want to force their beliefs on everyone else and ridicule any who may think differently.

[Broncojef]

Originally Posted by quiettiger

I think the Government should mandate some kind of truth commission to create a public debate where the facts can be presented without bias. The press used to provide that function but Rupert Murdoch has already stated that the days of free content are dead. Wait. you mean one of our checks and balances has a price tag on it now? The fundementals have changed.

The last thing anyone needs is the government telling them what truth is...they have MSNBC, ABC, CBS and all their affiliates now trying to do that. People need to hear all sides and weigh decision making themselves. People>government

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Broncojef

The last thing anyone needs is the government telling them what truth is...they have MSNBC, ABC, CBS and all their affiliates now trying to do that. People need to hear all sides and weigh decision making themselves. People>government

You really don't know do you? Um. All those guys you listed are bought and paid for. There are hand full of guys telling you what the truth is. We did not elect them. We cannot fire them. We cannot police them. They stand in our lives without any accountability at all.

My suggestion is that we really need a clear, clean and non partisan forum somewhere that just the facts can be presented. Let me clarify myself. On every bill that is submitted we should have a clear and clean summary document detailing what is in every bill.

Why won't that happen? The way congress works is on a series of side bets, deals and compromises. Nobody wants the real details on how things really work coming out unless it can embarass the opposing party. Republicans will insist on fair this and fair that until they get back in power and then at that point they will blame the Democrats for not supporting their legislation since clearly they represent the will of the people.

My whole point is behind the shell game that you are buying into. It has nothing to do with the Government doing anything. It has everything to do with US making Government do something. I don't think the public will is ever going to be strong enough. I don't think the Government initiated anything works out well WITHOUT the participation of the people. Conservatives say no a lot when in fact there are some changes that would benefit them that they are willing to say no to in order to have something to trade in the future.

Either party would kill their own family dog to have control of this country and ultimately the engine that powers the machine we are grist for is going to continue grinding us up because there are huge populations of people like you who think that the media is "fair and balanced." It is not and cannot be.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Please make your suggestions about how the elderly, who can no longer work, can receive medical care without having Medicare...

I know! We'll put their asses on COBRA. Let 'em try paying $800 a month for healthcare like the rest of us. That will euthanize their old asses.

Have you read several of the Czar's statements regarding how teh elderly shoudl be thought of? Very telling stuff.

The Eugencics movement is a progressive creation, learn your history...

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bob

Have you read several of the Czar's statements regarding how teh elderly shoudl be thought of? Very telling stuff.

The Eugencics movement is a progressive creation, learn your history...

Yeah. I heard that was one of Rush's talking points yesterday. He also said the Dems are Nazis because they are against big business, smoking, and pollution. I'm sure you know what is actually going to happen if Obama's health care bill passes?

ILLEGAL ALIENS WILL PERFORM ABORTIONS ON YOUR EUTHANIZED GRANDMA!

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!