The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-05-2009, 06:49 AM   #1
Bronco Rob
Ring of Famer
 
Bronco Rob's Avatar
 
The Alpha & The Omega

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,761

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Kush & Irsay
Default Denver Post: Nolan needs time, talent

Quote:
Even Mike Nolan doesn't know if the Broncos' defense will be any good this year. And he's the guy in charge of it, so if he doesn't know, your neighbor probably doesn't either.

When I asked the Broncos' fourth defensive coordinator in four years if the talent among his obscure defensive linemen is adequate to the NFL task, his answer was both honest and a little disconcerting:

"I think it is, but you'll find out, obviously, in competition, because when a guy hasn't been on film, you really don't know what you're going to get until you get out there and play," he said. "So it's a hard one to answer until we play some games."

Now, let's face it, NFL defensive coordinators seldom decline comment on whether their players are good enough to get the job done. Nolan literally doesn't know. He has never seen most of these guys before. He couldn't find game tape on some of them.

"The reality is we don't have a lot of starting experience, but that doesn't mean we don't have players," he said of the linemen. "The guys are working hard. We're finding out a lot about them. There wasn't a lot of film on them to try to evaluate them, so we're doing a lot of evaluations."

If the season started today, the Broncos would likely start a strongside end who has appeared in one NFL game (Ryan McBean), a nose tackle who has not started a game since 2006 (Ronald Fields) and a weakside end who was a member of last year's much- maligned unit (Kenny Peterson).

Among the alternatives are two more members of last year's crew (Marcus Thomas and Nic Clemons), a player who last appeared in an NFL game four years ago (Matthias Askew) and a second-year nose tackle who missed his rookie season with a torn Achilles tendon (Carlton Powell).

Any of these guys could be supplanted by a waiver-wire refugee when teams make their final cuts.

By comparison, the linebacking corps is well-known. The challenge there is half of them are learning a new position — former defensive linemen now playing outside linebacker.

"It's easier for some than others," Nolan said. "Some guys are better space players than others."

Somebody asked him what the strength of his defense is likely to be.

"Boy, we'll have to wait and see on that one," Nolan said.

So that's encouraging.

The conventional wisdom points to the secondary, which Josh McDaniels stocked with veteran NFL starters. But it's worth remembering that Mike Shanahan, his predecessor, also invested heavily in the secondary, assembling what he considered an elite cornerback tandem of Champ Bailey and Dre Bly. For the same reasons that McDaniels signed veteran safety Brian Dawkins this year, Shanahan signed John Lynch five years ago.

But the defensive line's chronic failure to put pressure on the opposing quarterback doomed Shanahan's defenses. Even the best defensive backs can cover for only so long.

Without a proven pass rusher on his interior line, Nolan will try to pressure the quarterback with his outside linebackers, former pass-rushing defensive ends such as Elvis Dumervil and rookie Robert Ayers. Opponents will no doubt try to force them to play pass coverage.

What has to stop is blaming the coordinator for a lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball. That's what Shanahan did in his final years as head coach, going through defensive coordinators like golf shirts. Unwilling to acknowledge his own personnel mistakes, he insisted the defensive failings were all about scheme and coaching.

One defensive coordinator after another tried to make this delusion come true. One after another failed.

Other organizations don't blame them for failing in Denver, which tells you how they diagnosed the problem. Jim Bates, author of the 2007 disaster, takes over this year for Monte Kiffin as defensive coordinator at Tampa Bay. Larry Coyer, fired to make room for Bates, has the job in Indianapolis. Bob Slowik, author of the 2008 disaster, will likely have the job wherever Shanahan lands.

The lesson isn't complicated. With good players, experienced coordinators such as these can succeed. Without them, they can't.

McDaniels began rebuilding last year's 30th-ranked scoring defense by replacing eight of 11 starters. But Ayers is this year's only high-profile investment in the front seven. If Nolan is to succeed, McDaniels will have to give him time and talent.

On the bright side, it can't get much worse than last year. Whether this year will be much better is anybody's guess. Even the guy in charge says so.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...800?source=rss




Bronco Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-05-2009, 07:06 AM   #2
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,095

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Wow, that is the first time anyone in the media asked about the talent on the front seven and got honest answers! That is a perfect recap of the failings of those defenses. You need talent along the DL to play any scheme in the NFL, we saw what happens when you do not have it.....
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:27 AM   #3
lex
Ring of Famer
 
lex's Avatar
 
The Broncos have been DisemBowlened

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 10,236

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Let me guess. This is another Klis piece.
lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:33 AM   #4
no-pseudo-fan
True Orange & Blue
 
no-pseudo-fan's Avatar
 
Follow me...

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: EPT
Posts: 2,113

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Hidalgo
Default

I am concerned about the front 7, at least some of them. I am not worried at all about WILB(DJ) or SILB(Davis). I am confident that the other 2 OLB will be successful in what they are asked to do. Now the 3 DL are another story. If they can just keep the OL off the LB's that would be great, if one of them can become somewhat of a playmaker that is gravy. We will see what it looks like very soon.
no-pseudo-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:34 AM   #5
521 1N5
Perennial Pro-bowler
 

Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 968
Default

This may be a rough couple seasons. Keep this coaching staff in tact and let's rebuild this thing.
521 1N5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:40 AM   #6
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default job security answers all the way...

eh...his answers are fair, but that sounds like "job security" type answers to me...

he wants to still have a job in case the D sucks this year...

quite frankly, i can't blame him for it...but i'd like to hear more confidence from our DC than that...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:56 AM   #7
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,095

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

The thing is, any DC in the league with the unknown talent level on the front seven DEN has, should say the same thing. Practice film is not the same as game film, and this Front is woefully inexperienced and could be totally devoid of any playmakers. The preseason will give you some indication, but really it will be weeks 3-4 that tell the tale about how decent this DL will be.

None of the players on this DL are a given NFL starter. Sure, some may be, but not one of them has proven it yet. The total chaos that is DEN's DL acquisitions over the last 7 years will show you just how miserably variable the talent they have acquired has fared. To expect anyhting at this point would be clueless homerism.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:58 AM   #8
outdoor_miner
Ring of Famer
 
outdoor_miner's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,152

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcver2ver3 View Post
eh...his answers are fair, but that sounds like "job security" type answers to me...

he wants to still have a job in case the D sucks this year...

quite frankly, i can't blame him for it...but i'd like to hear more confidence from our DC than that...
FYI - The actual interview where these quotes were pulled from is available at the Broncos website under the Audio/Video section (it's a pretty long interview - over 10 minutes):

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609

I actually liked the interview when I watched it yesterday... Krieger sort of picked out the quotes that reflect the uncertainty... In the actual interview, I thought Nolan sounded confident that they would be able to get the job done; but he did acknowledge the inexperience in the DL.
outdoor_miner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:03 AM   #9
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoor_miner View Post
FYI - The actual interview where these quotes were pulled from is available at the Broncos website under the Audio/Video section (it's a pretty long interview - over 10 minutes):

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609

I actually liked the interview when I watched it yesterday... Krieger sort of picked out the quotes that reflect the uncertainty... In the actual interview, I thought Nolan sounded confident that they would be able to get the job done; but he did acknowledge the inexperience in the DL.
fair enough...

i'm not going to listen to it, but i'll take your for it...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:11 AM   #10
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
The thing is, any DC in the league with the unknown talent level on the front seven DEN has, should say the same thing.

To expect anyhting at this point would be clueless homerism.
i wouldn't go that far...

if we expect the players to come in confident then we should set the same standard for the coaches...

if he doesn't believe that with his scheme/coaching that he can put a competitive product on the field then he doesn't need to be here...

the talent level is unproven no doubt, but he has to show confidence (esp publicly) in his guys that they can compete right away...nothing wrong with the "we have a long way to go" cliches...but don't leave out the "i wouldn't be here if i didn't believe my guys could get it done" comments as well...

in all fairness, some other poster says that Nolan's positive comments were mostly left out...

i have faith in Nolan...i think he'll get it done, and i believe he'll have a competitive defense on the field, maybe not dominant, but competitive...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:16 AM   #11
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,120

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Eh, this basically confirms what we all have been saying since Nolan was hired: we just don't know how good or bad the defensive line will be and we won't know until they play a few games.

My hope is that a guy like Powell will rise to the top and be an impact player.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:19 AM   #12
broncofan2438
Faneco this...
 
broncofan2438's Avatar
 
LETS TAKE BACK THE AFC WEST

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Posts: 6,296

Adopt-a-Bronco:
ERIC DECKER
Default

Well, this is really encouraging for the fans. Thanks Nolan and the denver post for again making us feel like this defense is crap again!
broncofan2438 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:21 AM   #13
colonelbeef
Lets be friend
 
colonelbeef's Avatar
 
Elway is the new Jerry West

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,884

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Derek Wolfe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcver2ver3 View Post
eh...his answers are fair, but that sounds like "job security" type answers to me...

he wants to still have a job in case the D sucks this year...

quite frankly, i can't blame him for it...but i'd like to hear more confidence from our DC than that...
That is exactly what we are going to get with a rook HC and new coordinators and position coaches all over the place... with a HOF HC brimming with job security, the long term plans were confidently put into place without fear of immediate repercussions. With this new crew, they will constantly be angling to protect themselves first, just like in most NFL cities.
colonelbeef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:30 AM   #14
outdoor_miner
Ring of Famer
 
outdoor_miner's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,152

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelbeef View Post
That is exactly what we are going to get with a rook HC and new coordinators and position coaches all over the place... with a HOF HC brimming with job security, the long term plans were confidently put into place without fear of immediate repercussions. With this new crew, they will constantly be angling to protect themselves first, just like in most NFL cities.
Man - I don't know about that. Every single quote I've heard from McDaniels speaks to his desire (and expectation) to win now. He has not offerred a single quote to my knowledge stating that it will "take time", or that anyone should have lowered expectations. He has cited Atlanta and Miami numerous times as to teams that were expected to do poorly and still made the playoffs.

Furthermore, I would argue that many of his moves have been made with the expectation of winning sooner rather than later; the Alphonso Smith trade being at the top of the list. I would also say the veteran acquisitions in the secondary and not drafting a QB to "groom" for the future indicate that McDaniels is not trying to spin a rebuild.

Just my 2 cents.
outdoor_miner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:30 AM   #15
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelbeef View Post
That is exactly what we are going to get with a rook HC and new coordinators and position coaches all over the place... with a HOF HC brimming with job security, the long term plans were confidently put into place without fear of immediate repercussions. With this new crew, they will constantly be angling to protect themselves first, just like in most NFL cities.
actually McD has been quite confident about his team's chances and his offense in interviews/press conferences...

he says he expects his offense to score a lot of points...he says he's never lost at any level and doesn't look to do so now....McD is very confident and i think he's spreading that throughout his players and coaches...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:31 AM   #16
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoor_miner View Post
Man - I don't know about that. Every single quote I've heard from McDaniels speaks to his desire (and expectation) to win now. He has not offerred a single quote to my knowledge stating that it will "take time", or that anyone should have lowered expectations. He has cited Atlanta and Miami numerous times as to teams that were expected to do poorly and still made the playoffs.


Just my 2 cents.
you beat me to it by mere seconds on the clock......
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:36 AM   #17
outdoor_miner
Ring of Famer
 
outdoor_miner's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,152

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcver2ver3 View Post
you beat me to it by mere seconds on the clock......
haha - I'm glad I finally won one. I've been making similar posts just after others all week.
outdoor_miner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:43 AM   #18
Kaylore
Because I am better
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
Taysom Hill for Heisman!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 46,399

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

I think it will take a few seasons to get this thing where Nolan wants it.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 08:58 AM   #19
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelbeef View Post
... with a HOF HC brimming with job security, the long term plans were confidently put into place without fear of immediate repercussions. With this new crew, they will constantly be angling to protect themselves first, just like in most NFL cities.
Maybe, but how did those "long term plans" work out? Weren't the Bates and Slowik debacles enough to show you that perhaps Shanny didn't know what he was doing on D?

As for the "new crew" protecting themselves, isn't that what Shanny did by firing Robinson, Rhodes, Coyer, and Bates? It was all their faults, right?
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 09:19 AM   #20
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Næstved, DK
Posts: 11,089

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan2438 View Post
Well, this is really encouraging for the fans. Thanks Nolan and the denver post for again making us feel like this defense is crap again!
Don't look now, but I think they expected that most fans had enough brain cells to figure out that a defense that sucked epicly last year and hasn't upgraded much is probably going to not be very good this year.

My advice to you is take 4 valium, wash them down with some johnny red lable and you will forget all about this little incident and you can go back to imagining that we are super bowl contenders again.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 09:21 AM   #21
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,095

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I think it will take a few seasons to get this thing where Nolan wants it.
Absolutely. This defense is not going to scare or stop anyone routinely if the DL is inconsistent or average. They might be another version of Coyer's bend but do not break in the 30 front scheme at best. In fact, that is exactly what I think they will do. Do just enought to keep the offense from not getting behind early.

In order to win, you must be able to rush the passer and contain the run. That all starts up front. This group could be average if they can grasp the concepts and execute them. That is the most you can hope for at this point. If they can do that, the defense should be average at worst. If they can be better, then they could be above average right away, but i think the chances of that are very slim.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 09:31 AM   #22
LonghornBronco
Ring of Famer
 
Hook'em Horns

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,421

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rahim Moore
Default

In my opinion, if he shows marginal improvement the job is his to keep. I like Nolen and think he will do a good job. The talent is hard too find, but it's there and raw.

I think we could be avg but the following players have to play up to or above expectations.
Alphonso Smith
Robert Ayers
Markus Thomas
LonghornBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 09:33 AM   #23
Gcver2ver3
Ring of Famer
 
Gcver2ver3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 6,581

Adopt-a-Bronco:
replace hillman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornBronco View Post
In my opinion, if he shows marginal improvement the job is his to keep. I like Nolen and think he will do a good job. The talent is hard too find, but it's there and raw.

I think we could be avg but the following players have to play up to or above expectations.
Alphonso Smith
Robert Ayers
Markus Thomas
we may be able to throw Tim Crowder into that pool of names...
Gcver2ver3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 09:33 AM   #24
NFLBRONCO
Ring of Famer
 
NFLBRONCO's Avatar
 
Go Nuggets Go Lakers

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lafayette Colorado
Posts: 8,119
Default

FINALLY HONESTY AND REALITY on the talent on this team it has alot of work ahead how refreshing. Unless Nolan gets HC job I would hope he stays to rebuild this thing I don't think McD is that dumb to blame Nolan in 1 yr.

Last edited by NFLBRONCO; 08-05-2009 at 09:36 AM..
NFLBRONCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 09:39 AM   #25
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,120

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

This is the season where Nolan proves he's a superior coach. Everyone knows the defensive line is (for all intents and purposes) a liability.

When you don't have talent, you have to win by superior execution.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:27 PM.


Denver Broncos