Should Blacks have to 'adopt' white culture

[broncofan7]

Per footsteps:

Black people have no need to adopt white culture, nor should they be required to do so. They were brought here against their will, treated poorly ever since...why should they wish to adopt this culture? To make whites feel good?

I am not sure what he means by 'adopt white culture'--but if he means to the extent that some successful blacks already have and Asian, Indian and many Hispanic immigrants have--then my answer is YES.

[broncofan7]

Footstep's quote

http://orangemane.com/BB/showpost.ph...&postcount=383

[footstepsfrom#27]

So you would do...what? Force black people into re-education camps? Pass laws requiring them to listen to country & western music? Burn Rap CD's and ban books by African American authors? Maybe pass laws requiring black children to "speak good English"?

Fact is...culture isn't something you can force into people, though we did try that for several hundred years in this country. Black slaves had their names taken from them and assigned "Christian" names instead. Blacks were not allowed to speak their native languages, act in accordance with their own religious beliefs, learn to read or write, etc...all in the name of doing what you essentially propose; creating "the good negro.

Are you nuts?

[Northman]

Judging by how much the Iraqi people like having a culture forced down their throat im not so sure that AA community in the United States would accept that nor should they.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

So you would do...what? Force black people into re-education camps? Pass laws requiring them to listen to country & western music? Burn Rap CD's and ban books by African American authors? Maybe pass laws requiring black children to "speak good English"?

Fact is...culture isn't something you can force into people, though we did try that for several hundred years in this country. Black slaves had their names taken from them and assigned "Christian" names instead. Blacks were not allowed to speak their native languages, act in accordance with their own religious beliefs, learn to read or write, etc...all in the name of doing what you essentially propose; creating "the good negro.

Are you nuts?

Yes--I would hand out Waylon Jennings Cd's, a pair of cowboy boots, some wranglers and a lasso.......obviously you are being facetious--just as I am.

What I have seen 1st hand within the black community that I have not seen within the Asian community--is the notion that becoming educated was seen as being the 'white' thing to do--and it is not as revered among African Americans...hence the term--'uncle tom'. And Vietnamese immigrants who largely came over in the 1970's have began to take their Vietnamese 1st names instead of their traditional 'American' names they were given when they 1st arrived and it certainly has not impaired their success in this country. Within the black community , why is becoming educated stigmatized as 'trying to act white'? I have a hunch I know what your answer is going to be comprised of (white people write all the history books and math books, etc etc).

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by Northman

Judging by how much the Iraqi people like having a culture forced down their throat im not so sure that AA community in the United States would accept that nor should they.

Apples and automobiles sir.........

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Yes--I would hand out Waylon Jennings Cd's, a pair of cowboy boots, some wranglers and a lasso.......obviously you are being facetious--just as I am.

What I have seen 1st hand within the black community that I have not seen within the Asian community--is the notion that becoming educated was seen as being the 'white' thing to do--and it is not as revered among African Americans...hence the term--'uncle tom'. And Vietnamese immigrants who largely came over in the 1970's have began to take their Vietnamese 1st names instead of their traditional 'American' names they were given when they 1st arrived and it certainly has not impaired their success in this country. Within the black community , why is becoming educated stigmatized as 'trying to act white'? I have a hunch I know what your answer is going to be comprised of (white people write all the history books and math books, etc etc).

My answer to you as someone who has spent serious time, effort and both experiential as well as academic pursuit of these answers, is that you don't have the tools to grasp hold of this discussion in any kind of meaningful way. I'm wasting my time offering you serious answers based on real consideration of facts, as you prove by asking for answers, then ignoring them or cherry picking what you wish to respond to as you have with the Asian questions.

You'll be better off talking this over with some of your "White Christian" friends instead of me.

And how have you seen "first hand" anything at all in the black community? What did you do...drive through Oak Cliff once?

[Bob]

The whole "have to" makes the question weird for me, any time one buys into the dominant culture there is $ gain, but at what cost? When are we all Americans, with more that unites us than divides?

If an Italian 100 years ago, refused to learn English, or attempt to adopt the broader culture he/she lost out on "getting ahead." I do not see much difference now, with Hispancis trapping themselves into generational poverty by their own choice.

I see the African American Experince and the Native American situation differently to be honest -- hard to take a hard-line stance when choice was taken away way back when.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

My answer to you as someone who has spent serious time, effort and both experiential as well as academic pursuit of these answers, is that you don't have the tools to grasp hold of this discussion in any kind of meaningful way. I'm wasting my time offering you serious answers based on real consideration of facts, as you prove by asking for answers, then ignoring them or cherry picking what you wish to respond to as you have with the Asian questions.

You'll be better off talking this over with some of your "White Christian" friends instead of me.

And how have you seen "first hand" anything at all in the black community? What did you do...drive through Oak Cliff once?

Dover DE--Section 8 housing abounded right next to the $200K homes---school district that was roughly 45% black---most local radio stations--R&B and classic soul music, Delaware State university--a historically black college in Dover---Dover has a distinctly African American Flare--on par with if not above Desoto, Lancaster, etc.......18+ years there my friend--and my 1st girlfriend was black

And I am not christian......And the Vietnamese/asian example is one that refutes all of your arguments--hard work, discipline and EDUCATION are the keys for ANY GROUP to pull itself from the grips of poverty--but you'd rather focus on history from 40+ years ago........your forefathers would be ashamed of you footsies.......

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Dover DE--Section 8 housing abounded right next to the $200K homes---school district that was roughly 45% black---most local radio stations--R&B and classic soul music, Delaware State university--a historically black college in Dover---Dover has a distinctly African American Flare--on par with if not above Desoto, Lancaster, etc.......18+ years there my friend--and my 1st girlfriend was black

So you lived down the street from black people and dated a black girl, so this makes you educated to the experience of being black in America? You realize that at best what you learned was what was happening in your little community...and living down the street from someone and going to school with them means very little. Most communities are now integrated to some extent in the suburbs, yet white's are largely unaware and unable to grasp what's really happening. We live in the matrix...you see what you've been trained to see.

And I am not christian......And the Vietnamese/asian example is one that refutes all of your arguments--hard work, discipline and EDUCATION are the keys for ANY GROUP to pull itself from the grips of poverty--but you'd rather focus on history from 40+ years ago........your forefathers would be ashamed of you footsies.......

I offered you point blank and specific reasons why Asian communities are completely different, and you ignored those reasons because you had no answer for what I said. I've also offered similar arguments on many of these topics before but you continue to ask the same questions as if you'd never heard my answers in the past. Either you're not listening, or you somehow think you're going to get a different set of answers next time....which you won't.

[BroncoBuff]

"Culture" is not enough a defined word for me to answer the poll.

Besides, most blacks are not immigrants. There's several immigrant populations that have a ways to go to assimilate.

[W*GS]

Of course not. What a stupid comment.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

"Culture" is not enough a defined word for me to answer the poll.

Besides, most blacks are not immigrants. There's several immigrant populations that have a ways to go to assimilate.

American culture was defined by footsteps as being largely European based-

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Of course not. What a stupid comment.

...a rare moment when W*GS and I agree but this one's a no brainer.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Of course not. What a stupid comment.

stupid? Do explain...........to give some background--I stated that black culture was included in popular American culture--but footsteps challenged me that black and 'American' culture are in fact different---and I surmised that it could then be postulated that the reluctance of a majority of the black population to assimilate into the American/Euro pop culture was at the root of their large and wide spread despair...as opposed to say east Indians or Asians who have within 1 or two generations surpassed many other groups of ethnic Americans--so stupid? hardly.........

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

American culture was defined by footsteps as being largely European based-

Actually you're the one who defined it as such.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

stupid? Do explain...........to give some background--I stated that black culture was included in popular American culture--but footsteps challenged me that black and 'American' culture are in fact different---and I surmised that it could then be postulated that the reluctance of a majority of the black population to assimilate into the American/Euro pop culture was at the root of their large and wide spread despair...as opposed to say east Indians or Asians who have within 1 or two generations surpassed many other groups of ethnic Americans--so stupid? hardly.........

No actually you tried to paint American (white) culture as uniquely characterized by hard work, education and personal responsibility...which is not culture at all of course but values and principles...while characterizing blacks as lazy and unwilling to better themselves.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

[...]I surmised that it could then be postulated that the reluctance of a majority of the black population to assimilate into the American/Euro pop culture was at the root of their large and wide spread despair...

How have blacks failed to "assimilate"? In what ways do they not accept "white" culture?

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by W*GS

How have POOR blacks failed to "assimilate"? In what ways do they not accept "white" culture?

for fear of being deemed this:

Uncle Tom is a pejorative term for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to white authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation.[1]


And footsteps quote speaks to this regard:

Black people have no need to adopt white culture, nor should they be required to do so. They were brought here against their will, treated poorly ever since...why should they wish to adopt this culture? To make whites feel good?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_tom

From everything from the way one speaks, to the level of effort that is given in schools, to respect for the police and other authority figures---and this is all around the context of poor Urban Blacks--not those who have already succeeded by assimilating into the American work ethic ......

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by W*GS

How have blacks failed to "assimilate"? In what ways do they not accept "white" culture?

Here's how he answers that question:

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Very true--Ever wonder why other minorities are not perceived to be nearly as often profiled as blacks are? I seldom hear of Asian males being pulled over for no good reason-----what is is within black culture that makes it such a 'target' for admonishment by, as you put it earlier--mainstream 'American culture'. Or are Asian males targeted by the establishment and they simply do not complain loud enough about their mistreatment........

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Diversity is our strength as based upon the history of our country you are referring to what exactly? Have you not condemned this country for being entirely racist and discriminatory--especially regarding our history? So which is it?The model-T? WWI and WWII victories? That was a time of great oppression in our country--largely pre- civil rights act era accomplishments--and accomplishments achieved by a largely European based culture and population. How about the internet? That too invented by our military complex--that was largely dominated by American's of European heritage.....

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Of course you wouldn't say that. You are so quick to make excuses for repeated abhorrent behavior that is displayed disproportionately in the poor AA communities across this country--as evidenced by the crime statistics--that I am sure you will say is a product of 'racist white police culture' that plants evidence on such an inordinate amount of black males that the college of choice for black men seems to be the state prisons systems....Too many in the poor AA communities see music, drug dealing and sports as the only respectable means to pull yourself out of the ghetto---speaking proper English, doing homework and being respectful to authority figures is tantamount to acting 'white'--which is frowned upon in the poor black communities (section 8 housing , food stamps, etc)--until this changes--the anger and plight of poor black males in this country and throughout the world will never change. But this cannot take place until the family unit gets restored within this community...otherwise the police are forced to play the role of the 'Disciplinarian/Father'

Originally Posted by broncofan7

15% of the population--with major representation. POTUS, AG, Surgeon General, Head of NASA.........need I go on? The plight of the poor AA community will change once they adopt the same principles that other poor communities must in order to succeed in our society---discipline, hard work,education, good planning and responsibility.

The leftists in this country have turned calling someone of Euro ancestry a 'racist' THE weapon of choice in currying political favor--that word used to assure one of deflection of any blame---I am glad that light has been placed on this subject as evidenced by the backlash that has been generated amongst the masses with Professor Gate's ill timed and self serving comments. Now THAT--is progress....

Originally Posted by broncofan7

So slavery & Jim Crow laws are responsible for the rampant growth of 1 or ZERO parent households in the AA community? To my knowledge, public schools are just that--PUBLIC. Medicaid is available to create peace of mind when it comes to one's health. Food stamps are available to help supplement basic regular nourishment. Scholarships are available for those who acheive and even to those who are slightly above average but who are otherwise financially poor. Public health clinics provide OC's and condoms...I could go on about services that are provided by the government and private sector--but what ALL of these programs fail to address and will NEVER be able to address, is that of personal responsibility and self respect--that will only come from the home.

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Laughable--if poor black culture is unable to mesh with the predominate culture in this country--they will always feel on the outside looking in. It's no different than the people in Appalachia who refuse to adopt the principles of success--hard work, education and dignity.

That just scratches the surface...

[cutthemdown]

I adopted Jazz and Blues from the black culture. Blacks have a rich and vibrant culture if anything they should embrace it even more. I don't consider Rap and hip hop there best stuff but to tell them to be more white is a joke.

Besides have you been to africa lately? Blacks in America nothing like them. I'd say they have absorbed the American culture and anything they do is American culture now. That's what makes the country special, our melting pot of ideas and cultures.

The part of black culture in the inner cities that has gotten violent and degrading to women, yeah they could change course on some of that, but to say they need to be more white is a joke.

Without black culture there would be no jazz, be no blues, which IMO would make the world suck!!!

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Here's how he answers that question:







That just scratches the surface...

And you failed to give a legitimate answer beyond "It's Whitey's fault!' for each issue that I have raised........Your stance is truly disgraceful and it soils the previous accomplishments of this nation's ancestors that made us the superpower--albeit, crumbling superpower, that we are today.

Black people have no need to adopt white culture, nor should they be required to do so. They were brought here against their will, treated poorly ever since...why should they wish to adopt this culture? To make whites feel good?

[kappys]

What is white culture?

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by kappys

What is white culture?

Apparently it's 'american' culture.......distinguishable from black culture per footsteps.....

[cutthemdown]

Not to mention more white kids buy rap albums then do black kids.

Everything belongs to all of us. When black kids have less poverty you would see the change in there music etc etc. Rap, like Blues, is really just a reaction to the living conditions the artist finds himself in.

I'm not saying I know whose to blame for those conditions, etc etc, only that I know the violent rap came from them and not vice versa.