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Old 07-31-2009, 06:36 AM   #1
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http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_12954933

Broncos, Moreno are far apart in talks as camp kicks off
Ayers, another first-round selection, also is unsigned, making the tandem the team's first rookie holdouts since 2004.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 07/31/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 07/31/2009 01:24:31 AM MDT

Have whistle, will coach. Josh McDaniels gives his a twirl in Tuesday's workout at Dove Valley. Two-a-days begin today. (John Leyba, The Denver Post)

Call him fast. Call him talented. Call him soon-to-be wealthy.

And beginning today, people can call him No-Show Moreno.

The Broncos will open training camp today without their No. 1 draft pick, Knowshon Moreno. The team and its rookie running back are so far apart in contract negotiations, Moreno will wake up today in his college home state of Georgia.

No sense rushing to Denver when a new contract isn't imminent.

The Broncos are further along in negotiations with their second first-round choice, outside linebacker Robert Ayers. Still, the two sides would have had to work through Thursday night to keep Ayers from joining Moreno as the Broncos' first rookie holdouts since 2004.

"I want to be there, but it's part of the business," Ayers said Thursday. "About all I can say is both sides are working hard to try to get everything done, but . . . I don't have any predictions."

Meanwhile, 78 other Broncos players will brace for the two-a-day opening of training camp at the team's Dove Valley practice facility, where the goal, besides making it to Saturday, is to secure a spot on the season- opening, 53-man roster.

This year, the Broncos are going old school. They will arrive early the first workout session today starts at 8:45 a.m. And they will leave late their second practice is scheduled to end at 7:30 p.m.

Then again, for each morning-night doubleheader, there are days with no morning practices 10 of each.

New coach Josh McDaniels said this schedule allows for a meeting before every practice while keeping the players away from the hot, midday sun and fresh with the occasional nonpractice.

During his time as Bill Belichick's top offensive assistant in New England, McDaniels also came to like this schedule better than others because "it gave me more teaching time."

Once the Broncos are on the field, they will be equipped with pads.

The schedule and contact may still be a long way from matching the camp drudgery of eating and sleeping football at the University of Northern Colorado campus in Greeley, as the team once did. But for the most part, the concept of practicing in helmets and shorts in the morning and veterans getting the afternoon practice off exited with Mike Shanahan.

McDaniels is attempting to bring some of the rugged East Coast style to the Rocky Mountains.

"If that's what you want your identity to be, then you've got to go out and do it," McDaniels said. "It's not just going to show up in September if you haven't done it.

"We're going to practice the way we feel we need to practice in order to establish the style of play that we want to win with this year. That's going to be a physical style on both sides of the ball. It's hard to practice that way when you're not in pads. Right off the bat, we're going to try to get after it."

Not Moreno. Until he signs, he can't participate. The first running back taken in the 2009 draft and 12th player overall, Moreno is represented by the agency headed by Tom Condon and Ben Dogra, who just negotiated a five-year, $38.25 million contract with a $23.5 million guarantee for No. 7 pick Darrius Heyward-Bey with the Raiders.

The deal staggered the industry, as those numbers represented a 20 percent increase from what the previous year's No. 7 pick Sedrick Ellis received.

Still another reason for the Broncos to hate the Raiders. The Broncos were hoping to sign Moreno to a five-year contract at an 8 percent to 10 percent increase from the $11.415 million guarantee they gave left tackle Ryan Clady last year as the No. 12 pick.

An 8 percent increase would put Moreno's guarantee at $12.3 million. The 20 percent increase sought by Condon-Dogra would lift Moreno's guarantee to $13.7 million.

A gap that large suggests Knowshon may be a No-Show beyond today.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

An eye out

Some things to look for as Broncos training camp starts in full today:

DEPTH CHARGES

Josh McDaniels said he's going with a "fluid" depth chart, which means some starters in the morning practice may not be the starters in the afternoon. And some changes may come day-to-day as even the coaches get their first up-close look at the players in full gear. Unlike under Mike Shanahan, practices with the new coach will be in full pads.

GET DEFENSIVE

Watch the nose tackles. Ronald Fields is the leader at this point at what may be the most important position on the defense. And at linebacker, several guys are learning new positions. The Broncos need one of the converted defensive ends, such as Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss, to make a successful move to outside linebacker.

BORN TO RUN

For the running backs, watch how the carries get divided and who really runs with vision. Long runs don't mean much, because they don't tackle to the ground and the defensive players are asked to let runners finish the play once contact is made. So watch how a guy moves through traffic. And keep an eye on veterans Correll Buckhalter and LaMont Jordan.

Jeff Legwold, The Denver Post
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:44 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by spdirty View Post
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_12954933

Broncos, Moreno are far apart in talks as camp kicks off
Ayers, another first-round selection, also is unsigned, making the tandem the team's first rookie holdouts since 2004.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 07/31/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 07/31/2009 01:24:31 AM MDT

Have whistle, will coach. Josh McDaniels gives his a twirl in Tuesday's workout at Dove Valley. Two-a-days begin today. (John Leyba, The Denver Post)

Call him fast. Call him talented. Call him soon-to-be wealthy.

And beginning today, people can call him No-Show Moreno.

The Broncos will open training camp today without their No. 1 draft pick, Knowshon Moreno. The team and its rookie running back are so far apart in contract negotiations, Moreno will wake up today in his college home state of Georgia.
No sense rushing to Denver when a new contract isn't imminent.

The Broncos are further along in negotiations with their second first-round choice, outside linebacker Robert Ayers. Still, the two sides would have had to work through Thursday night to keep Ayers from joining Moreno as the Broncos' first rookie holdouts since 2004.

"I want to be there, but it's part of the business," Ayers said Thursday. "About all I can say is both sides are working hard to try to get everything done, but . . . I don't have any predictions."

Meanwhile, 78 other Broncos players will brace for the two-a-day opening of training camp at the team's Dove Valley practice facility, where the goal, besides making it to Saturday, is to secure a spot on the season- opening, 53-man roster.

This year, the Broncos are going old school. They will arrive early the first workout session today starts at 8:45 a.m. And they will leave late their second practice is scheduled to end at 7:30 p.m.

Then again, for each morning-night doubleheader, there are days with no morning practices 10 of each.

New coach Josh McDaniels said this schedule allows for a meeting before every practice while keeping the players away from the hot, midday sun and fresh with the occasional nonpractice.

During his time as Bill Belichick's top offensive assistant in New England, McDaniels also came to like this schedule better than others because "it gave me more teaching time."

Once the Broncos are on the field, they will be equipped with pads.

The schedule and contact may still be a long way from matching the camp drudgery of eating and sleeping football at the University of Northern Colorado campus in Greeley, as the team once did. But for the most part, the concept of practicing in helmets and shorts in the morning and veterans getting the afternoon practice off exited with Mike Shanahan.

McDaniels is attempting to bring some of the rugged East Coast style to the Rocky Mountains.

"If that's what you want your identity to be, then you've got to go out and do it," McDaniels said. "It's not just going to show up in September if you haven't done it.

"We're going to practice the way we feel we need to practice in order to establish the style of play that we want to win with this year. That's going to be a physical style on both sides of the ball. It's hard to practice that way when you're not in pads. Right off the bat, we're going to try to get after it."

Not Moreno. Until he signs, he can't participate. The first running back taken in the 2009 draft and 12th player overall, Moreno is represented by the agency headed by Tom Condon and Ben Dogra, who just negotiated a five-year, $38.25 million contract with a $23.5 million guarantee for No. 7 pick Darrius Heyward-Bey with the Raiders.

The deal staggered the industry, as those numbers represented a 20 percent increase from what the previous year's No. 7 pick Sedrick Ellis received.

Still another reason for the Broncos to hate the Raiders. The Broncos were hoping to sign Moreno to a five-year contract at an 8 percent to 10 percent increase from the $11.415 million guarantee they gave left tackle Ryan Clady last year as the No. 12 pick.

An 8 percent increase would put Moreno's guarantee at $12.3 million. The 20 percent increase sought by Condon-Dogra would lift Moreno's guarantee to $13.7 million.

A gap that large suggests Knowshon may be a No-Show beyond today.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

An eye out

Some things to look for as Broncos training camp starts in full today:

DEPTH CHARGES

Josh McDaniels said he's going with a "fluid" depth chart, which means some starters in the morning practice may not be the starters in the afternoon. And some changes may come day-to-day as even the coaches get their first up-close look at the players in full gear. Unlike under Mike Shanahan, practices with the new coach will be in full pads.

GET DEFENSIVE

Watch the nose tackles. Ronald Fields is the leader at this point at what may be the most important position on the defense. And at linebacker, several guys are learning new positions. The Broncos need one of the converted defensive ends, such as Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss, to make a successful move to outside linebacker.

BORN TO RUN

For the running backs, watch how the carries get divided and who really runs with vision. Long runs don't mean much, because they don't tackle to the ground and the defensive players are asked to let runners finish the play once contact is made. So watch how a guy moves through traffic. And keep an eye on veterans Correll Buckhalter and LaMont Jordan.

Jeff Legwold, The Denver Post
He's not even in Co, it's going to be a while folks.
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:55 AM   #3
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OK, WHO the **** gets a 20% increase in COLA in this freaking economy ?

Seriously, Condon and Dogra are freaking miracle workers that must see the new CBA on the horizon and are trying to get a few HUGE last pay days from the rookie contracts.....
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:57 AM   #4
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I really hate rookie contracts.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:05 AM   #5
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And at linebacker, several guys are learning new positions. The Broncos need one of the converted defensive ends, such as Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss, to make a successful move to outside linebacker.
Like, 4 that have never played the position?

And are both majorly undersized?
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:09 AM   #6
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Go on about Ayers.

Too small for a 3/4 DE, too inexperienced for an OLB, and too slow.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
OK, WHO the **** gets a 20% increase in COLA in this freaking economy ?

Seriously, Condon and Dogra are freaking miracle workers that must see the new CBA on the horizon and are trying to get a few HUGE last pay days from the rookie contracts.....

Its not really a cost of living allowance, per se. That would be if there was a provision in the contract that would bump up the salary to compensate for inflation. Thats not what this is.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:13 AM   #8
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Go on about Ayers.

Too small for a 3/4 DE, too inexperienced for an OLB, and too slow.
It would be kind of ironic if either Moss or Doom outperformed Ayers at OLB. I wonder if the current regime would still resist playing Moss or Doom if that happens because Ayers is "their guy". Lets hope not. I guess another way to look at it would be to say that it doesnt really matter who it is that emerges at OLB as long as its someone.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:47 AM   #9
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I actually don't think ayers is "too" small to play DE in the 3/4 -
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
OK, WHO the **** gets a 20% increase in COLA in this freaking economy ?

Seriously, Condon and Dogra are freaking miracle workers that must see the new CBA on the horizon and are trying to get a few HUGE last pay days from the rookie contracts.....
no Al Davis is just a senile old **** who doesn't know what he is doing anymore
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:21 AM   #11
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no Al Davis is just a senile old **** who doesn't know what he is doing anymore
They'll have to include a 'senility escalator clause' in standard NFL contracts.

Rookie contracts are out of control.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:34 AM   #12
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They'll have to include a 'senility escalator clause' in standard NFL contracts.

Rookie contracts are out of control.
i agree. i mean look at Stafford, he has never done a thing for an NFL team and he already has been given the most guaranteed money of any player ever in the NFL.

i can see why no one wants the number 1 overall pick, it is a burden.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:54 AM   #13
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Maybe Moreno and Ayers should look at what generally happens to the rookie holdout. Mosts careers rarely take off. I know everyone needs to look out for themselves in their jobs but he hasn't even done his job yet and this is football, not a business.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:43 PM   #14
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Maybe Moreno and Ayers should look at what generally happens to the rookie holdout. Mosts careers rarely take off. I know everyone needs to look out for themselves in their jobs but he hasn't even done his job yet and this is football, not a business.
First of all Football is a buisness. And its also true Moreno hasn't done his job and as result.....Denver isn't paying him a red nickle at this stage and rightfuly so.

As far as Moreno is concerned it isn't every day you find yourself in the position of being the No. 1 RB selected in the 2009 draft, so he needs to take advantage of his position and sign a contract he's happy with. B/c we know what happens once you're under contract.....it can be binding yoke of burden---especially when you play for an organization that has shown a history of sticking to the contract originally signed.

Keep in mind if the Broncos want Moreno to sign for 5 years, thats an enternity when you consider a RB's career is only 4 years.

Perhaps Bmarsh has taken Moreno under his wing and said look at me....I signed a contract I now find myself unhappy with, so make sure you don't make the mistake I made.

Hell, Moreno signs for 5 years, it would be 7 to 8 years before he's eligible for free agency and he'll be close to 30 years old (and all beaten up) which is old for a RB. So yes, Moreno is smart to continue negotciating(sp) to get as much out of his first and possible last NFL contract as possible.

Denver is trying to save as much money as possible while Moreno is trying to sign for as much money as possible. Moreno could miss all of training and most of the preseason if not all. Denver is no hurry however, b/c Torrain, Hillis, Buckhalter(sp), and Jordan. In the end both sides will be required to compromise in the end.

Last edited by rastaman; 07-31-2009 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:17 PM   #15
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Perhaps Bmarsh has taken Moreno under his wing and said look at me....I signed a contract I now find myself unhappy with, so make sure you don't make the mistake I made.
There's a big difference...

Marshall was a FOURTH ROUNDER. He was never in a position to "negotiate" for a lucrative contract.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:58 PM   #16
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First of all Football is a buisness. And its also true Moreno hasn't done his job and as result.....Denver isn't paying him a red nickle at this stage and rightfuly so.

As far as Moreno is concerned it isn't every day you find yourself in the position of being the No. 1 RB selected in the 2009 draft, so he needs to take advantage of his position and sign a contract he's happy with. B/c we know what happens once you're under contract.....it can be binding yoke of burden---especially when you play for an organization that has shown a history of sticking to the contract originally signed.

Keep in mind if the Broncos want Moreno to sign for 5 years, thats an enternity when you consider a RB's career is only 4 years.

Perhaps Bmarsh has taken Moreno under his wing and said look at me....I signed a contract I now find myself unhappy with, so make sure you don't make the mistake I made.

Hell, Moreno signs for 5 years, it would be 7 to 8 years before he's eligible for free agency and he'll be close to 30 years old (and all beaten up) which is old for a RB. So yes, Moreno is smart to continue negotciating(sp) to get as much out of his first and possible last NFL contract as possible.

Denver is trying to save as much money as possible while Moreno is trying to sign for as much money as possible. Moreno could miss all of training and most of the preseason if not all. Denver is no hurry however, b/c Torrain, Hillis, Buckhalter(sp), and Jordan. In the end both sides will be required to compromise in the end.

No NFL player ever goes into their rookie contract thinking that that is going to be the only contract they ever sign.

Please point out exactly where in the CBA does it say that it takes 7 to 8 years of service to be eligible for free agency.

Please point out prior players that gives Denver a history of sticking to the original deal. When making said list of prior players, please also point out whatever resolution to said contract dispute ended up being.
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