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Old 07-30-2009, 01:42 PM   #1
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Default No Man Better for the Job : Why Kyle Orton Will Excel for the Denver Broncos

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Let's clear the air.

Brandon Marshall will stay in Denver.

At least this year.

Now, with that being said, let's focus on Kyle Orton, the man traded from the Bears to the Broncos for Jay Cutler.

With all the Cutler talk that has been going on, it's time we focus on the other side of the trade and the man who will lead Denver into the playoffs, and put them in contention once again to win the AFC West.

Before people begin to list Orton's NFL statistics with the Chicago Bears, let's address them.

2005 (Rookie Year): 51.6 percent completion, 1,869 yards, 9 touchdowns, and 13 interceptions. He started 15 games for the Bears, leading them to a 10-5 record before he was replaced for former first round draft pick Rex Grossman. Minus a five interception game against the Cincinatti Bengals, a decent rookie season for a fourth round pick out of Purdue.

2006: Chicago decided to sign free agent Brian Griese, demoting Orton to third string. Grossman "led" the team to the Super Bowl, but poor performances both during the regular season and post season, led to him being replaced in 2007 by Griese, and then Orton.


2007: Orton played in the final three games of the season, in his debut he was 22-38 for 184 yards and one interception. He ended the year with 478 yards, 3 touchdowns and 2 interceptions. He improved upon his 51.6 completion percentage to 53.8 percent.

2008: Kyle was named the starter, out right. He started 15 games, completing 58.5 percent of his passes for 2,972 yards 18 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.

These may seem like mediocre numbers at best to many critics and skeptics out there, but the Bears, for the past four years have not only lacked a premiere quarterback, but a starting wide receiver as well; at least when Orton was at the helm.

In 2005, Muhsin Muhammed led the team with 64 receptions for 750 yards and four touchdowns. Behind him was Justin Gage with 31 receptions for 346 yards and two touchdowns. The third leading receiver?

Running back Thomas Jones.

In 2008, rookie running back Matt Forte was the team's leading receiver with 63 receptions for 477 yards and four touchdowns. Tight end Greg Olson was the second leading man with 54 receptions, 574 yards and five touchdowns.

Lastly, was return man-converted-to-wide-receiver, Devin Hester with 51 catches for 565 yards and three touchdowns.

In 2008 for the Broncos, Brandon Marshall had 104 receptions for 1265 yards and 12 touchdowns. Rookie Eddie Royal had 91 catches for 980 yards and five touchdowns.

After him was slot receiver Brandon Stokley with 49 grabs for 528 yards and three touchdowns. Tight end Tony Scheffler rounded out the group with 41 receptions for 645 yards and three touchdowns.

Last time I checked, all four of these men were still in Denver (no matter how hard one wants to get out).

With that being said let us travel back to 2005, when a college senior from Altoona, Iowa was preparing to enter the NFL Draft.

Coming out of Purdue, Orton was one of the nation's best passers.

A preseason All-American, rated the third best quarterback in the nation by Phil Steele, he was considered by The Sporting News to be the preseason Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year, and was touted to be the Most Accurate Passer, have the Strongest Arm, and be "Coolest in the Clutch" in the Big Ten by Lindy's Sports.

In his final game as a quarterback, Orton threw for 522 yards, tying a record held by a former Boilermaker QB, Drew Brees. Needless to say, Orton was in good company. He ended his career with 9,337 yards, with 63 touchdown passes and 28 interceptions.

Every scout praised Orton for his accuracy:

"does not make many mistakes with the ball, and is accurate in most areas.."-Len Pasquarelli

"...can fit the ball into some tight spots in coverage. Shows excellent touch and accuracy when throwing vertically..."-ESPN Draft Tracker

Yet, they all criticized him for the same thing as well, slow delivery and his lack of experience in a pro-style offense:

"Elongated delivery is a big concern. He needs to improve his mechanics by getting the ball up and quickening his delivery...is he a bit of a system quarterback?"-Draft Tracker

"Played in a quarterback-friendly offense, often works out from the shotgun, and lacks top-shelf arm strength. Has an elongated throwing motion, and throws sidearm way too often..."-Len Pasquarelli

As Aaron Rodgers can attest, when scouts begin to knock your throwing motion, your stock falls.

So he was drafted in the fourth round, and has done nothing, besides get better since he entered the league.

He led the team to a 10-5 record as a rookie, and was wrongly benched.

Then came back in 2008 and led the Bears to a 9-7 record without a number one receiver.

He improved his completion percentage from 2005 by nearly six percent in 2008, and in the last three games of the season Orton completed 71 of 109 passes for 903 yards with five touchdowns, no interceptions and a 106.2 passer rating.

That's a 65.1 completion percentage.

The comparison may be unfair, but it took his predecessor Drew Brees, three years before he cemented his place as a good, if not great quarterback in the NFL.

Is it fair to say that by Orton's eight or ninth year in the league he'll be throwing for 5,000 yards in Denver?

Probably not.

But I think Orton is wrongly perceived by the media, and possibly Broncos's faithful. He is not a conservative, dink and dunk passer. You don't throw for 522 yards by throwing screens, and you don't throw for nearly 10,000 yards in three years by throwing ten yard out patterns.

Orton is a gunslinger, do not underestimate him.

Just give him the weapons he needs, e.g. Marshall, Royal, Stokley, Schleffler.

Denver fans, if you were worried about Kyle Orton, you need not be.

In Illinois we have a theory; when a player leaves a Chicago team, he naturally gets better.

Just sit back and enjoy watching Orton get better Bronco fans.

To encourage thought here's one more statistic:

He's 21-13 as a starter, Cutler was 17-20.




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Old 07-30-2009, 01:48 PM   #2
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:51 PM   #3
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In the interest of disclosure, its worth pointing out that, in contrast to that piece, which blames the WRs, Muhammad has blamed the QBs by famously being quoted as saying that "Chicago is where wide receivers go to die." So there is a chicken/egg element to this blaming of the WRs.

Since I live here and have watched the Bears as a second team, I will say that I think it has been as much the WRs as the QB. Muhammad has had a lot of drops while playing in Chicago and that quote is more likely trying to deflect blame away from him.

Id say that Bernard Berrian has probably been their most stalwart WR the last five years and that Muhammad is more of a talker who, again, is trying to frame the Chicago situation in a way that will help his pocket book.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:54 PM   #4
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:54 PM   #5
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And here I thought this might be something new. Instead it's the same stuff that's been posted here over and over, just in a different way. Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:55 PM   #6
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Aren't there 20 other threads with the same tired stats in them?

We all know Orton is our guy, he needs to prove it in TC/PS and the regular season.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:59 PM   #7
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I honestly still don't grasp why people compare the win/loss ratio between Cutler and Orton.

It may be hard to fathom but games aren't only played by an offense... there is a defense as well, and it just so happens the Bears throughout Orton's tenure with them had a quite solid defense. The Bears getting turnovers and giving Orton a short field... taking pressure off of Orton to win games on his arm etc.

Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton... the end. Trying to twist stats or drink koolaid doesn't change the truth.

All we can hope is that Orton takes his game to the next level with the personnel we're surrounding him with.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberBroncoMan View Post
I honestly still don't grasp why people compare the win/loss ratio between Cutler and Orton.

It may be hard to fathom but games aren't only played by an offense... there is a defense as well, and it just so happens the Bears throughout Orton's tenure with them had a quite solid defense. The Bears getting turnovers and giving Orton a short field... taking pressure off of Orton to win games on his arm etc.

Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton... the end. Trying to twist stats or drink koolaid doesn't change the truth.

All we can hope is that Orton takes his game to the next level with the personnel we're surrounding him with.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/chi/2005.htm

To bolster what youre saying, check out 2005. Check out the defenses overall rankings and the teams overall passing rankings. Yet, the TEAM went 10-5 with Orton as a starter.

Having said that, Orton actually did a good job. The vast majority of the time he was smart enough to play within himself. But its still blatantly obvious the Bears won in spite of not having a capable QB.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by UberBroncoMan View Post
Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton... the end.
No, it's not the end. It goes both ways. Orton had the better defense and won't anymore, but Cutler had much better offensive talent around him and won't anymore, which played a substantial part in his having superior numbers, something the Cutler lovers always refuse to acknowledge. Last year the Broncos O was LOADED. Great offensive line. Great receivers and tight ends. Didn't have that great RB, but Orton has all the things Cutler had and he may have that great RB as well.

Cutler is more talented no doubt, but Orton may be a better manager which with superior talent around him could be better for the team... we'll see. Bottom line is I think both the Broncos and Bears will essentially be fairly similar to how they were last season... good offense bad defense for the Broncos, good defense bad offense for the Bears. Contrary to popular belief especially in Chicago Cutler can't turn water into wine, and bad receivers and O-linemen into good ones.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:15 PM   #10
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GreatBronco16 View Post
And here I thought this might be something new. Instead it's the same stuff that's been posted here over and over, just in a different way. Thanks.
Yup, more ways to make us Bronco fans think Orton is our hero!
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bronco X View Post
No, it's not the end. It goes both ways. Orton had the better defense and won't anymore, but Cutler had much better offensive talent around him and won't anymore, which played a substantial part in his having superior numbers, something the Cutler lovers always refuse to acknowledge. Last year the Broncos O was LOADED. Great offensive line. Great receivers and tight ends. Didn't have that great RB, but Orton has all the things Cutler had and he may have that great RB as well.

Cutler is more talented no doubt, but Orton may be a better manager which with superior talent around him could be better for the team... we'll see. Bottom line is I think both the Broncos and Bears will essentially be fairly similar to how they were last season... good offense bad defense for the Broncos, good defense bad offense for the Bears. Contrary to popular belief especially in Chicago Cutler can't turn water into wine, and bad receivers and O-linemen into good ones.
You make solid points but its also fair to say that Cutler impacted how much success the team had. His armstrength alone forces the defense to defend more of the field. We saw that in 2006 when Plummer was replaced with Cutler. We saw it open up the running game more. Cutlers skill set should have no less of an impact in Chicago even though the WRs around him may not be as good.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberBroncoMan View Post
I honestly still don't grasp why people compare the win/loss ratio between Cutler and Orton.

It may be hard to fathom but games aren't only played by an offense... there is a defense as well, and it just so happens the Bears throughout Orton's tenure with them had a quite solid defense. The Bears getting turnovers and giving Orton a short field... taking pressure off of Orton to win games on his arm etc.

Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton... the end. Trying to twist stats or drink koolaid doesn't change the truth.

All we can hope is that Orton takes his game to the next level with the personnel we're surrounding him with.
you just contradicted your own argument

if you cannot judge a team by the offense only, conversely you cannot do it by defense either so "Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton" is false by your own standard

cannot have it both ways, if their O sucks and their D is great and our D sucks and our O is great then it looks to me like by your standard as a team that they are equal
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by rabbmasterflash View Post
you just contradicted your own argument

if you cannot judge a team by the offense only, conversely you cannot do it by defense either so "Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton" is false by your own standard

cannot have it both ways, if their O sucks and their D is great and our D sucks and our O is great then it looks to me like by your standard as a team that they are equal
He's saying there is a tradeoff, genious.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:30 PM   #15
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another thing no one see when they look at Cutler is that technically he has not improved or grown as a player at all.

last season he threw for a ton of yards but no one factors in that he chucked the ball 616 times. his yards per pass has remained the same his entire career, TDs per attempt have remained nearly the same, INTs per attempt remained almost the same. the only thing that has gone up is his yards and that is only because he threw so much.

at least Orton improves from year to year, Cutler can't say that. and in Chicago with no weapons a bad line and bad offensive coaches, there is a strong chance he is as developed as a QB as he will ever be
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:34 PM   #16
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And here I thought this might be something new. Instead it's the same stuff that's been posted here over and over, just in a different way. Thanks.
I have an idea...Let's start another Cutler thread!!!
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:41 PM   #17
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another thing no one see when they look at Cutler is that technically he has not improved or grown as a player at all.

last season he threw for a ton of yards but no one factors in that he chucked the ball 616 times. his yards per pass has remained the same his entire career, TDs per attempt have remained nearly the same, INTs per attempt remained almost the same. the only thing that has gone up is his yards and that is only because he threw so much.

at least Orton improves from year to year, Cutler can't say that. and in Chicago with no weapons a bad line and bad offensive coaches, there is a strong chance he is as developed as a QB as he will ever be
Check out our leading rusher the past two years. A healthy running game can improve the yards per pass. That stat just underscores what has been observed about being too pass happy.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:46 PM   #18
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I honestly still don't grasp why people compare the win/loss ratio between Cutler and Orton.

It may be hard to fathom but games aren't only played by an offense... there is a defense as well, and it just so happens the Bears throughout Orton's tenure with them had a quite solid defense. The Bears getting turnovers and giving Orton a short field... taking pressure off of Orton to win games on his arm etc.

Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton... the end. Trying to twist stats or drink koolaid doesn't change the truth.

All we can hope is that Orton takes his game to the next level with the personnel we're surrounding him with.
Umm yeah and that's what the article was about,how crappy an offense Orton had.Cutler will be running for his life this year.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:49 PM   #19
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:54 PM   #20
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What scare me is the the fact that Orton in WCO never hit 60% of his passes. That a problem no matter who he is throwing to.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:55 PM   #21
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Umm yeah and that's what the article was about,how crappy an offense Orton had.Cutler will be running for his life this year.
They upgraded their line, plus unlike Orton Cutler can run.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:59 PM   #22
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I honestly still don't grasp why people compare the win/loss ratio between Cutler and Orton.

It may be hard to fathom but games aren't only played by an offense... there is a defense as well, and it just so happens the Bears throughout Orton's tenure with them had a quite solid defense. The Bears getting turnovers and giving Orton a short field... taking pressure off of Orton to win games on his arm etc.

Cutler has and will have superior talent when compared to Orton... the end. Trying to twist stats or drink koolaid doesn't change the truth.

All we can hope is that Orton takes his game to the next level with the personnel we're surrounding him with.
the Bears had a "solid defense" with Orton there? 2006, ranked #5; 2007, ranked #26; and 2008, ranked #21 ... aside from 2006, the bears' defense was in the bottom half of the league.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:06 PM   #23
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the Bears had a "solid defense" with Orton there? 2006, ranked #5; 2007, ranked #26; and 2008, ranked #21 ... aside from 2006, the bears' defense was in the bottom half of the league.
Orton threw no passes in 2006.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/chi/2006.htm

He had 3 starts in 2007. They were 2-1. He completed 54% of his passes.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/chi/2007.htm

But why dont you include 2005? The Bears had a defense that was 1 and 2 in Pts and Yards and went 10-5 with Orton starting as a rookie. So 2005 and 2008 are whats most relevant. In 2008, the defense wasnt great but it was still better than Denvers. And Chicago had a better running game last year than Denver.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:09 PM   #24
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Check out our leading rusher the past two years. A healthy running game can improve the yards per pass. That stat just underscores what has been observed about being too pass happy.
does a lack of a running game excuse the supid mistakes he continued to make his 3rd season that he was making his rookie years?

he has not grown or matured as a player. he has not improved at all.

and frankly i don't care anymore because his b**** ass is gone.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:11 PM   #25
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does a lack of a running game excuse the supid mistakes he continued to make his 3rd season that he was making his rookie years?

he has not grown or matured as a player. he has not improved at all.

and frankly i don't care anymore because his b**** ass is gone.
No. He locked onto Marshall entirely too much. But I wouldnt go as far as saying he's as bad as his rookie year.

Its amazing. I voiced a strong objection to Shanahan's approach to drafting running backs and people acted like I was from Neptune. One of the reasons was that it would take pressure off Cutler and put less emphasis on decision making (because an effective running game opens up the passing game). Instead, we took the approach that we were going to be all about throwing the ball. It might have worked but the injuries at RB (which ties back to the approach to acquiring RBs) came back to haung Shanahan big time...almost as much as retaining Slowik.

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