Woody's Mail Bag 7-9-09 - The Orange Mane

Bronco Rob · 07-09-2009, 11:07 AM

"Woody - Starting at QB, the guy who was beat out by Rex Grossman? Throwing to whom? Michael Vick is looking better every day. I know, count on PETA to turn in their season tickets. But seriously, are there any other QB contenders even remotely available?"
-- Rich Fehr, Page, AZ

"Rich - On my ESPN show "Around The Horn," we discussed last week whether or not Vick should be allowed back this year, and I was the only one who said he had paid his debt to society and deserved a chance, as most ex-cons, to get a job in his field (football), that he couldn't pay off the myriad of bills in his bankruptcy doing construction (he has left that job this week to work with kids), and that some team would sign him, and that all the e-mails I had gotten on the subject wanted to know if "their" team, or the Broncos, could possibly sign Vick.

I think only the media think he shouldn't be permitted to play. The fans I've heard from seem to think not only should he play, but also play for (fill in a name) team.

Having said all that, the Broncos will never sign Vick. They don't want another player with a troubled past. Read: Travis Henry et al. I think the likely candidates are Oakland, of course, and Dallas, although I'm sure there are at least a dozen teams that would want to sign him if they weren't afraid of all the local attention (from the media).

Now, about the Broncos' starting quarterback, who is, without playing one snap, Kyle Orton. In minicamp I was unimpressed with him. There I go being negative again, most people will say. No, there I go being honest. Orton, as I wrote last month, will not be ranked in the top 20 in the league by anybody who has seen him play for Chicago. Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference.

Truth is, Chris Simms and the rookie have stronger arms. Simms has been away from playing in a game for a while, but I think you'll see him this year, and maybe earlier than some think. Maybe Orton will succeed in Josh McDaniels' West New England Offense, but he's no All-Pro, and I still don't think they'll win many games this year. He's not a long-range answer here, and I'll eat my opinion, as always, if I'm wrong. If I'm right, the world will know soon enough."

Ramathorn · 07-09-2009, 11:16 AM

i agree wholeheartedly. Simms will be starting by week 6.

Beantown Bronco · 07-09-2009, 11:18 AM

BroncoBuff will no doubt love this. He's been on record with this for awhile.

cousinal11 · 07-09-2009, 11:33 AM

Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference.

It's going to be a long season.

BroncoMan4ever · 07-09-2009, 11:33 AM

Orton is going to put up near pro bowl numbers this season. Simms will only ever see the field in the case of injury or in the rare case that we have run up the score and we put in the backups.

broncofan7 · 07-09-2009, 11:34 AM

And so have I with my assertion that when we start off 1-5 (beat only CLE)--we will change QB's during our bye week..........

Mountain Bronco · 07-09-2009, 11:44 AM

If people ask questions about your starting QB or there is even a remote possiblity that your backup could compete for the starting spot, you usually don't have a very good starting QB. As always there are exceptions to the rule.

24champ · 07-09-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Rob

Truth is, Chris Simms and the rookie have stronger arms. Simms has been away from playing in a game for a while, but I think you'll see him this year, and maybe earlier than some think. [/u]

Woody sounds pretty high on the rookie QB, Woody said Tom B. had the best throws in minicamp.

vancejohnson82 · 07-09-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Bronco

If people ask questions about your starting QB or there is even a remote possiblity that your backup could compete for the starting spot, you usually don't have a very good starting QB. As always there are exceptions to the rule.

All Woody talked about was arm strength...."I was unimpressed with how far he could throw the ball"

who cares? i was sick of passes being forced for no reason...sick of balls sailing over the heads of recievers (that was more 2007) and sick of hero throws in the red zone

so, if hes smart with the ball and understands the system, why can't he succeed? screw Woody

Smiling Assassin27 · 07-09-2009, 12:13 PM

I don't really give a crap where Orton ends up statistically. Woody always seems to forget that wins matter, Pro Bowl appearances do not.

24champ · 07-09-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cousinal11

Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference.

It's going to be a long season.

24champ · 07-09-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

All Woody talked about was arm strength...

Quote:

Josh McDaniels told the team before practice, the media afterward, that Kyle Orton is Your Brand Spanking New Denver Broncos' starting quarterback. During practice with the first team, Orton threw a couple of interceptions and also threw a completion to the young man operating the music machine several yards out of bounds and threw a pass onto the distant field. And he was forced to eat the ball twice on red-zone plays.

It was not Orton's best day on the field.

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_12586632

telluride · 07-09-2009, 12:17 PM

Setting aside the fact that Woody's an idiot and likely wrong as always, I am curious about something. Simms is a lefty, right? I'm wondering how tough it would be for the O-line and receivers to adjust mid-season to a switch from a right-handed QB to lefty.

Beantown Bronco · 07-09-2009, 12:19 PM

A pass in the dirt or over your head looks pretty much the same whether it comes from a lefty or righty.

vancejohnson82 · 07-09-2009, 12:27 PM

1st and 10 at SD 23	(7:51) (Shotgun) J.Cutler scrambles up the middle to SD 21 for 2 yards (R.Bingham).
2nd and 8 at SD 21	(7:13) S.Young left tackle to SD 11 for 10 yards (C.Gordon, E.Weddle).
1st and 10 at SD 11	(6:26) J.Cutler pass short left to T.Scheffler to SD 4 for 7 yards (S.Gregory).
2nd and 3 at SD 4	(5:45) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to D.Graham (S.Phillips).
3rd and 3 at SD 4	(5:41) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass short middle intended for E.Royal INTERCEPTED by A.Cason at SD -1. A.Cason to SD 9 for 10 yards (B.Stokley). FUMBLES (B.Stokley), recovered by SD-C.Hart at SD 9. C.Hart to SD 9 for no gain (B.Stokley).

That was before the fumble that wasnt a fumble when we could have put that game away

1st and 10 at BUF 15	(5:51) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass incomplete short right to T.Bell.
2nd and 10 at BUF 15	(5:47) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass incomplete short right to B.Marshall.
3rd and 10 at BUF 15	(5:42) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass short right intended for B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by K.Mitchell at BUF 1. K.Mitchell to BUF 2 for 1 yard (B.Marshall).

Just two plays that kind of symbolize IN GAME plays that in my mind Cutler was notorious for.....

Orton can throw as many picks as he wants in MINI CAMP

24champ · 07-09-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

1st and 10 at SD 23	(7:51) (Shotgun) J.Cutler scrambles up the middle to SD 21 for 2 yards (R.Bingham).
2nd and 8 at SD 21	(7:13) S.Young left tackle to SD 11 for 10 yards (C.Gordon, E.Weddle).
1st and 10 at SD 11	(6:26) J.Cutler pass short left to T.Scheffler to SD 4 for 7 yards (S.Gregory).
2nd and 3 at SD 4	(5:45) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to D.Graham (S.Phillips).
3rd and 3 at SD 4	(5:41) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass short middle intended for E.Royal INTERCEPTED by A.Cason at SD -1. A.Cason to SD 9 for 10 yards (B.Stokley). FUMBLES (B.Stokley), recovered by SD-C.Hart at SD 9. C.Hart to SD 9 for no gain (B.Stokley).

That was before the fumble that wasnt a fumble when we could have put that game away

1st and 10 at BUF 15	(5:51) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass incomplete short right to T.Bell.
2nd and 10 at BUF 15	(5:47) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass incomplete short right to B.Marshall.
3rd and 10 at BUF 15	(5:42) (Shotgun) J.Cutler pass short right intended for B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by K.Mitchell at BUF 1. K.Mitchell to BUF 2 for 1 yard (B.Marshall).

Just two plays that kind of symbolize IN GAME plays that in my mind Cutler was notorious for.....

Orton can throw as many picks as he wants in MINI CAMP

Orton wouldn't have won both games anyway...not with the D we had. So your point is moot.

broncocalijohn · 07-09-2009, 12:33 PM

"Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference. "
I think the reason for Chicago to get rid of Orton is that Cutler was offered to him. That is the reason and why Woody makes it out for something more dramatic is assinine. Cutler is better than Orton and they got that chance to swap plus picks.

dbfan21 · 07-09-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

I don't really give a crap where Orton ends up statistically. Woody always seems to forget that wins matter, Pro Bowl appearances do not.

Exactly! The only people who give more credit to stats than wins are Fantasy Football players and the media.

I'd much rather have a gutsy leader who passes for 210 YPG with 1 TD than a loose cannon who throws for 320 YPG with 1 TD and 3 INT's. The former could survive with a solid ground game (which I feel we will have this year). The latter is a result of forced throws and over-confidence.

vancejohnson82 · 07-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24champ

Orton wouldn't have won both games anyway...not with the D we had. So your point is moot.

thats fine...we would have been in the same position anyway....no playoff games, no playoff wins and a second straight year that ended with an a$$ raping to the Chargers

so everyone's point is moot according to your logic...it was a lateral move from no playoffs to no playoffs

Irish Stout · 07-09-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cousinal11

It's going to be a long season.

Its already been a long season.... it feels like the season hasn't ended. Seriously the disappointment from the Buffalo loss was still lingering when Shanny was canned... then a whole excruciating waiting period of speculation as to new coaches. Then new coach. Then Cutler back and forth drama for another excruciating period. Then Cutler gone. Then BMarsh drama... I just want this season to start and be over with already so that we can move past all this.

An typically I like especially long seasons.... means you've gone further than other teams.

Tombstone RJ · 07-09-2009, 12:51 PM

Hopefully Orton is a gamer. I know coaches don't like it when a player is prone to mistakes in practice, esp. a QB because it messes up the entire offense's timing and it makes the coaches look like they are idiots for sticking with the guy. Perhaps this is what happened with Orton and Grossman/Griese and the Bears felt compelled to go with the QB who outshined Orton in practice.

That being said, you can't really argue with Orton's record as a starter. I don't know what it is about certain players but some just don't practice well yet they manage to be good when it really counts.

gyldenlove · 07-09-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

I don't really give a crap where Orton ends up statistically. Woody always seems to forget that wins matter, Pro Bowl appearances do not.

As has already been demonstrated, winning and going to the pro bowl is pretty correlated for QBs. 4 of the 12 playoff teams had pro bowl QBs, half of the super bowl teams had a pro bowl QB, only 2 of the 20 non playoff teams had pro bowl QBs and no team with a pro bowl QB lost more games than they won, while 11 teams who didn't have a pro bowl QB won fewer games than they lost.

cmhargrove · 07-09-2009, 01:13 PM

I am just hoping on a pleasant surprise in our passing game. I think Orton can lead us this year, but i'm not holding my breath.

I want a damn running game! A Bona Fide "shove it down your throat," "pound the rock" type of offense. The passing game is there to keep teams honest and take advantage of mismatches.

Anaximines · 07-09-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24champ

Woody sounds pretty high.....

I'm a fan of Woody myself but some of the haters might enjoy this:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/01...-anything.html

Rohirrim · 07-09-2009, 01:20 PM

Shouldn't somebody put down newspaper?

They could use one of Woody's articles.

07-09-2009, 11:07 AM	#1
Bronco Rob Ring of Famer There's A New Sheriff In Town Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 4,587 Adopt-a-Bronco: Bill Vinovich	Woody's Mail Bag 7-9-09 "Woody - Starting at QB, the guy who was beat out by Rex Grossman? Throwing to whom? Michael Vick is looking better every day. I know, count on PETA to turn in their season tickets. But seriously, are there any other QB contenders even remotely available?" -- Rich Fehr, Page, AZ "Rich - On my ESPN show "Around The Horn," we discussed last week whether or not Vick should be allowed back this year, and I was the only one who said he had paid his debt to society and deserved a chance, as most ex-cons, to get a job in his field (football), that he couldn't pay off the myriad of bills in his bankruptcy doing construction (he has left that job this week to work with kids), and that some team would sign him, and that all the e-mails I had gotten on the subject wanted to know if "their" team, or the Broncos, could possibly sign Vick. I think only the media think he shouldn't be permitted to play. The fans I've heard from seem to think not only should he play, but also play for (fill in a name) team. Having said all that, the Broncos will never sign Vick. They don't want another player with a troubled past. Read: Travis Henry et al. I think the likely candidates are Oakland, of course, and Dallas, although I'm sure there are at least a dozen teams that would want to sign him if they weren't afraid of all the local attention (from the media). Now, about the Broncos' starting quarterback, who is, without playing one snap, Kyle Orton. In minicamp I was unimpressed with him. There I go being negative again, most people will say. No, there I go being honest. Orton, as I wrote last month, will not be ranked in the top 20 in the league by anybody who has seen him play for Chicago. Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference. Truth is, Chris Simms and the rookie have stronger arms. Simms has been away from playing in a game for a while, but I think you'll see him this year, and maybe earlier than some think. Maybe Orton will succeed in Josh McDaniels' West New England Offense, but he's no All-Pro, and I still don't think they'll win many games this year. He's not a long-range answer here, and I'll eat my opinion, as always, if I'm wrong. If I'm right, the world will know soon enough."

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07-09-2009, 11:16 AM	#2
Ramathorn Perennial Pro-bowler M E O W Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Little Hocking, OH Posts: 934 Adopt-a-Bronco: Elvis Dumervil	i agree wholeheartedly. Simms will be starting by week 6.

07-09-2009, 11:18 AM	#3
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,039 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	BroncoBuff will no doubt love this. He's been on record with this for awhile.

07-09-2009, 11:33 AM	#4
cousinal11 East Coast Bronco Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,203 Adopt-a-Bronco: Joel Dresseen	Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference. It's going to be a long season.

07-09-2009, 11:33 AM	#5
BroncoMan4ever Ring of Famer Here to chew bubblegum and kick ass Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 11,555 Adopt-a-Bronco: VIRGIL GREEN!!!	Orton is going to put up near pro bowl numbers this season. Simms will only ever see the field in the case of injury or in the rare case that we have run up the score and we put in the backups.

07-09-2009, 11:34 AM	#6
broncofan7 AKA "THE STANDARD" BQ looks ALMOST as good as I do Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: BIG D Posts: 6,022	And so have I with my assertion that when we start off 1-5 (beat only CLE)--we will change QB's during our bye week..........

07-09-2009, 11:44 AM	#7
Mountain Bronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,446	If people ask questions about your starting QB or there is even a remote possiblity that your backup could compete for the starting spot, you usually don't have a very good starting QB. As always there are exceptions to the rule.

07-09-2009, 12:13 PM	#10
Smiling Assassin27 STOP! KIPER TIME! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 10,955 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I don't really give a crap where Orton ends up statistically. Woody always seems to forget that wins matter, Pro Bowl appearances do not.

07-09-2009, 12:17 PM	#13
telluride Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,557 Adopt-a-Bronco: --Rulon!--	Setting aside the fact that Woody's an idiot and likely wrong as always, I am curious about something. Simms is a lefty, right? I'm wondering how tough it would be for the O-line and receivers to adjust mid-season to a switch from a right-handed QB to lefty.

07-09-2009, 12:19 PM	#14
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,039 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	A pass in the dirt or over your head looks pretty much the same whether it comes from a lefty or righty.

07-09-2009, 12:33 PM	#17
broncocalijohn Famer of Rings My Dog Richard Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Lake Forest, Orange County, Calif. Posts: 18,458 Adopt-a-Bronco: Simon Fletcher	"Denver got rid of Jay Cutler because he wouldn't return phone calls. Chicago got rid of Orton because the Bears didn't want him. Big difference. " I think the reason for Chicago to get rid of Orton is that Cutler was offered to him. That is the reason and why Woody makes it out for something more dramatic is assinine. Cutler is better than Orton and they got that chance to swap plus picks.

07-09-2009, 12:51 PM	#21
Tombstone RJ Ring of Famer Old School Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the Tetons! Posts: 19,273 Adopt-a-Bronco: WorrellWilliams	Hopefully Orton is a gamer. I know coaches don't like it when a player is prone to mistakes in practice, esp. a QB because it messes up the entire offense's timing and it makes the coaches look like they are idiots for sticking with the guy. Perhaps this is what happened with Orton and Grossman/Griese and the Bears felt compelled to go with the QB who outshined Orton in practice. That being said, you can't really argue with Orton's record as a starter. I don't know what it is about certain players but some just don't practice well yet they manage to be good when it really counts.

07-09-2009, 01:13 PM	#23
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,396 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	I am just hoping on a pleasant surprise in our passing game. I think Orton can lead us this year, but i'm not holding my breath. I want a damn running game! A Bona Fide "shove it down your throat," "pound the rock" type of offense. The passing game is there to keep teams honest and take advantage of mismatches.

07-09-2009, 01:20 PM	#25
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,791	Shouldn't somebody put down newspaper? They could use one of Woody's articles.