The Climate Change Climate Change - The Orange Mane

DBruleU · 06-26-2009, 10:28 AM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1245...Tabs%3Darticle

Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change legislation.

If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again doubt the science of human-caused global warming.
[POTOMAC WATCH] Associated Press

Steve Fielding

Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting. It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and even, if less reported, the U.S.

In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of the population believes humans play a role. In France, President Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country's new ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-and-trade program.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.

Credit for Australia's own era of renewed enlightenment goes to Dr. Ian Plimer, a well-known Australian geologist. Earlier this year he published "Heaven and Earth," a damning critique of the "evidence" underpinning man-made global warming. The book is already in its fifth printing. So compelling is it that Paul Sheehan, a noted Australian columnist -- and ardent global warming believer -- in April humbly pronounced it "an evidence-based attack on conformity and orthodoxy, including my own, and a reminder to respect informed dissent and beware of ideology subverting evidence." Australian polls have shown a sharp uptick in public skepticism; the press is back to questioning scientific dogma; blogs are having a field day.

The rise in skepticism also came as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, elected like Mr. Obama on promises to combat global warming, was attempting his own emissions-reduction scheme. His administration was forced to delay the implementation of the program until at least 2011, just to get the legislation through Australia's House. The Senate was not so easily swayed.

Mr. Fielding, a crucial vote on the bill, was so alarmed by the renewed science debate that he made a fact-finding trip to the U.S., attending the Heartland Institute's annual conference for climate skeptics. He also visited with Joseph Aldy, Mr. Obama's special assistant on energy and the environment, where he challenged the Obama team to address his doubts. They apparently didn't.

This week Mr. Fielding issued a statement: He would not be voting for the bill. He would not risk job losses on "unconvincing green science." The bill is set to founder as the Australian parliament breaks for the winter.

Republicans in the U.S. have, in recent years, turned ever more to the cost arguments against climate legislation. That's made sense in light of the economic crisis. If Speaker Nancy Pelosi fails to push through her bill, it will be because rural and Blue Dog Democrats fret about the economic ramifications. Yet if the rest of the world is any indication, now might be the time for U.S. politicians to re-engage on the science. One thing for sure: They won't be alone.

Dukes · 06-26-2009, 10:50 AM

It's an undeniable fact humans are destroying the Earth. Duh

cutthemdown · 06-26-2009, 11:13 AM

I also agree that global warming alarmists need to get there agenda pushed through now.

It could be lack of sunspots that are keeping the Earth from warming right now who really knows for sure.

It is strange though Co2 going up superfast but warming is starting to flatline. That doesn't make since to me if co2 is the culprit.

Rigs11 · 06-26-2009, 11:15 AM

As usual the party of No wishes to do nothing. global warming? do nothing.bad economy? do nothing.gays wanting to marry? Do everything to stop it!

Surveyed scientists agree global warming is real

Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility.

Against a backdrop of harsh winter weather across much of North America and Europe, the concept of rising global temperatures might seem incongruous.

However the results of the investigation conducted at the end of 2008 reveal that vast majority of the Earth scientists surveyed agree that in the past 200-plus years, mean global temperatures have been rising and that human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...vey/index.html

Rohirrim · 06-26-2009, 11:18 AM

I don't know why anybody is worried about any of this stuff. As I pointed out in another thread, our government is incapable of responding to any of this stuff. Read the Huffpost article. Hell, our government has pumped out dozens of clean air, clean water and healthy forest acts. None of them have done squat because they aren't designed to actually accomplish anything. Congress will pass some kind of stupid bill. All the politicians will stand around grinning. And the bill will be so bogged down with special interest protections it will mean virtually nothing. American government, circa 2009.

cutthemdown · 06-26-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I don't know why anybody is worried about any of this stuff. As I pointed out in another thread, our government is incapable of responding to any of this stuff. Read the Huffpost article. Hell, our government has pumped out dozens of clean air, clean water and healthy forest acts. None of them have done squat because they aren't designed to actually accomplish anything. Congress will pass some kind of stupid bill. All the politicians will stand around grinning. And the bill will be so bogged down with special interest protections it will mean virtually nothing. American government, circa 2009.

That's what happened in the EU. They set the co2 limits so high every company had credits to sell. It drove the price of credits down to where it was cheap for the polluters to buy them up.

I heard one coal plant purchased enough credits to spew co2 at there current levels until 2025 lol. What good does that do?

Garcia Bronco · 06-26-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I don't know why anybody is worried about any of this stuff. As I pointed out in another thread, our government is incapable of responding to any of this stuff. Read the Huffpost article. Hell, our government has pumped out dozens of clean air, clean water and healthy forest acts. None of them have done squat because they aren't designed to actually accomplish anything. Congress will pass some kind of stupid bill. All the politicians will stand around grinning. And the bill will be so bogged down with special interest protections it will mean virtually nothing. American government, circa 2009.

Maybe we should designate you as ruler and dictator and you could decide for us.

Bob · 06-26-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Maybe we should designate you as ruler and dictator and you could decide for us.

Or at least a Czar position....

Anyone here find it interesting that so much is made of healthcare, yet the real issue they vote on is cap a trade? Guess when they will pass healthcare "reform" -- it will be after they are pretending to take away gun rights -- everyone will freakout and focus on the wrong issue, and it will pass mostly unnoticed.

Rohirrim · 06-26-2009, 12:17 PM

Well, I'd love to stick around and play "Whack a Moron" but I've got things to do.

Garcia Bronco · 06-26-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

but I've got things to do.

We all doubt that.

W*GS · 06-27-2009, 09:13 AM

Fielding is an idiot.

DBruleU · 06-27-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

Fielding is an idiot.

Yes, anyone who has a different opinion that contradicts your religion is an idiot. Go figure.

W*GS · 06-27-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBruleU

Yes, anyone who has a different opinion that contradicts your religion is an idiot. Go figure.

I'm not interested in opinions. I'm interested in logic, reason, evidence and facts.

Fielding has no logic, no reason, no evidence, and no facts, but that doesn't keep him from speaking as though he does, and that's what makes him an idiot.

cutthemdown · 06-27-2009, 01:03 PM

I don't know what is the truth but I am willing to accept the Earth is warming and it could cause some problems.

I just disagree on the course of action. IMO Co2 is not going to go down regardless of what America does. Sounds good in theory but China and India will just us it to become more competitive.

So what should America do? If we think water will be a problem, then we need to spend money on water management, more resevoirs, more dams etc, maybe even desalination powered with wind energy, solar energy.

If we think sea levels are going to rise, then we should spend money on the important cities that could have a problem.

If crops need to be adapted to the hotter weather, we need to develop hardier strains and crops that do better in hotter climates.

To spend tons of money trying to do it by reducing Co2 faster then industry wants to naturally is IMO a big mistake. If the Earth is warming because of CO2 this money will be a waste better spent preparing for it.

All we need to do is adapt better to the changing Earth to beat our competition across the world.

Spider · 06-27-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I don't know what is the truth but I am willing to accept the Earth is warming and it could cause some problems.

My record with W*GS stands for itself ,Me and him disagree on just about everything , but As a trucker seeing countryside over the last 25+ years , I can honestly tell you I see alot of changes in the terrain and weather patterns ....
People ask me alot what was the worst storm I was ever caught in , I answer without a doubt A Eastern Colorado sand storm , that was bad , but I havent seen a consistent weather pattern since 1991 , and what I mean is Snow in June.. 50 degree weather in January ...... I see alot of the deserts in America getting greener and greener on the edges ( middle part is still the same ) From my own observations the name global warming is wrong , climate change is correct ........ We had a glacier melt in Wyoming , hell there was a lake there no one knew of

SPfloppy · 06-27-2009, 01:52 PM

^and from what I hear weather patterns on earth change and flux in cycles over millions of years, but these things happen slowely so this could be climate change yes, but perminent? I personally don't think so. Propaganda works both ways. An Inconvinient truth vs some collection of "experts" and scientists on Foxnews. I have no sage wisdom nor evidence for this post because I am not about to spend the rest of the afternoon searching the net for stories that are all subject to change, edits and spin by whomever posted it. So I take what I read here and there and form my opinion based on what passes for fact this week. To that end, I believe that no significant climate change is happening now. I also don't believe that global warming is the threat that Algore and anyone looking for a hot button to make thier name on or make thier name bigger want you to believe.

06-26-2009, 10:28 AM	#1
DBruleU Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boulder, the bastion of communism. Posts: 3,663	The Climate Change Climate Change http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1245...Tabs%3Darticle Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change legislation. If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again doubt the science of human-caused global warming. [POTOMAC WATCH] Associated Press Steve Fielding Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting. It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and even, if less reported, the U.S. In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of the population believes humans play a role. In France, President Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country's new ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-and-trade program. The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.) The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon. Credit for Australia's own era of renewed enlightenment goes to Dr. Ian Plimer, a well-known Australian geologist. Earlier this year he published "Heaven and Earth," a damning critique of the "evidence" underpinning man-made global warming. The book is already in its fifth printing. So compelling is it that Paul Sheehan, a noted Australian columnist -- and ardent global warming believer -- in April humbly pronounced it "an evidence-based attack on conformity and orthodoxy, including my own, and a reminder to respect informed dissent and beware of ideology subverting evidence." Australian polls have shown a sharp uptick in public skepticism; the press is back to questioning scientific dogma; blogs are having a field day. The rise in skepticism also came as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, elected like Mr. Obama on promises to combat global warming, was attempting his own emissions-reduction scheme. His administration was forced to delay the implementation of the program until at least 2011, just to get the legislation through Australia's House. The Senate was not so easily swayed. Mr. Fielding, a crucial vote on the bill, was so alarmed by the renewed science debate that he made a fact-finding trip to the U.S., attending the Heartland Institute's annual conference for climate skeptics. He also visited with Joseph Aldy, Mr. Obama's special assistant on energy and the environment, where he challenged the Obama team to address his doubts. They apparently didn't. This week Mr. Fielding issued a statement: He would not be voting for the bill. He would not risk job losses on "unconvincing green science." The bill is set to founder as the Australian parliament breaks for the winter. Republicans in the U.S. have, in recent years, turned ever more to the cost arguments against climate legislation. That's made sense in light of the economic crisis. If Speaker Nancy Pelosi fails to push through her bill, it will be because rural and Blue Dog Democrats fret about the economic ramifications. Yet if the rest of the world is any indication, now might be the time for U.S. politicians to re-engage on the science. One thing for sure: They won't be alone.

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06-26-2009, 10:50 AM	#2
Dukes Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,325	It's an undeniable fact humans are destroying the Earth. Duh

06-26-2009, 11:13 AM	#3
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,881	I also agree that global warming alarmists need to get there agenda pushed through now. It could be lack of sunspots that are keeping the Earth from warming right now who really knows for sure. It is strange though Co2 going up superfast but warming is starting to flatline. That doesn't make since to me if co2 is the culprit.

06-26-2009, 11:15 AM	#4
Rigs11 Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 7,855	As usual the party of No wishes to do nothing. global warming? do nothing.bad economy? do nothing.gays wanting to marry? Do everything to stop it! Surveyed scientists agree global warming is real Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility. Against a backdrop of harsh winter weather across much of North America and Europe, the concept of rising global temperatures might seem incongruous. However the results of the investigation conducted at the end of 2008 reveal that vast majority of the Earth scientists surveyed agree that in the past 200-plus years, mean global temperatures have been rising and that human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...vey/index.html

06-26-2009, 11:18 AM	#5
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,110	I don't know why anybody is worried about any of this stuff. As I pointed out in another thread, our government is incapable of responding to any of this stuff. Read the Huffpost article. Hell, our government has pumped out dozens of clean air, clean water and healthy forest acts. None of them have done squat because they aren't designed to actually accomplish anything. Congress will pass some kind of stupid bill. All the politicians will stand around grinning. And the bill will be so bogged down with special interest protections it will mean virtually nothing. American government, circa 2009.

06-26-2009, 12:17 PM	#9
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,110	Well, I'd love to stick around and play "Whack a Moron" but I've got things to do.

06-27-2009, 09:13 AM	#11
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,601	Fielding is an idiot.

06-27-2009, 01:03 PM	#14
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,881	I don't know what is the truth but I am willing to accept the Earth is warming and it could cause some problems. I just disagree on the course of action. IMO Co2 is not going to go down regardless of what America does. Sounds good in theory but China and India will just us it to become more competitive. So what should America do? If we think water will be a problem, then we need to spend money on water management, more resevoirs, more dams etc, maybe even desalination powered with wind energy, solar energy. If we think sea levels are going to rise, then we should spend money on the important cities that could have a problem. If crops need to be adapted to the hotter weather, we need to develop hardier strains and crops that do better in hotter climates. To spend tons of money trying to do it by reducing Co2 faster then industry wants to naturally is IMO a big mistake. If the Earth is warming because of CO2 this money will be a waste better spent preparing for it. All we need to do is adapt better to the changing Earth to beat our competition across the world.

06-27-2009, 01:52 PM	#16
SPfloppy Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	^and from what I hear weather patterns on earth change and flux in cycles over millions of years, but these things happen slowely so this could be climate change yes, but perminent? I personally don't think so. Propaganda works both ways. An Inconvinient truth vs some collection of "experts" and scientists on Foxnews. I have no sage wisdom nor evidence for this post because I am not about to spend the rest of the afternoon searching the net for stories that are all subject to change, edits and spin by whomever posted it. So I take what I read here and there and form my opinion based on what passes for fact this week. To that end, I believe that no significant climate change is happening now. I also don't believe that global warming is the threat that Algore and anyone looking for a hot button to make thier name on or make thier name bigger want you to believe.