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Old 06-23-2009, 10:34 PM   #1
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Default Broncos Financial Issues...

So, I'm curious to see what folks think around here, particularly anyone who can think beyond "McStoopidpoopoo," et al.

Is our organization encountering real money issues? It's been thrown around. If you think so, what's the basis?

Marshall pulled almost the exact about-face Cutler did, only at least Marshall admitted it's about money. (Mostly.) Cutlerbus tried to weasel out of it as being some sort of conflict of player/coach interest.

Interested to hear opinions, particularly anyone with any insight as to the financial workings of the team. It appears we'll run considerably under the cap this year? Have we done that in the past ten years? Never seems like it.

Were Cutler and Marshall just told that the till is empty, or are these just individual cases that involve circumstances that keep us from wanting to pay them? (Attitudes, arrests, etc?)

We certainly had no problem paying Casey W., despite some risk. (Age.)

Do you believe this team is in a real financial bind, and will it continue? Or, are we just trying to get the books back in order as we rebuild?
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:48 PM   #2
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I believe they are circumstances of players trying to test the new coach and GM. One got shipped out because of disrespect towards the owner, the other wont be going anywhere without a lot coming back in return.

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Old 06-23-2009, 10:49 PM   #3
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Don't know any details, but I feel certain the "budget-cutting" excuse for firing those four staffers was a smokescreen.

They replaced at least two anyway (the PR guy Paul Kirk and the BroncosTV guy .... what was his name?)
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
So, I'm curious to see what folks think around here, particularly anyone who can think beyond "McStoopidpoopoo," et al.

Is our organization encountering real money issues? It's been thrown around. If you think so, what's the basis?

Marshall pulled almost the exact about-face Cutler did, only at least Marshall admitted it's about money. (Mostly.) Cutlerbus tried to weasel out of it as being some sort of conflict of player/coach interest.

Interested to hear opinions, particularly anyone with any insight as to the financial workings of the team. It appears we'll run considerably under the cap this year? Have we done that in the past ten years? Never seems like it.

Were Cutler and Marshall just told that the till is empty, or are these just individual cases that involve circumstances that keep us from wanting to pay them? (Attitudes, arrests, etc?)

We certainly had no problem paying Casey W., despite some risk. (Age.)

Do you believe this team is in a real financial bind, and will it continue? Or, are we just trying to get the books back in order as we rebuild?
One extraordinary issue with your premise:

If Cutler wanted to weasel his trade into a contract. He could've.

Period.

Sooooooooooooooooo... /thread
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:53 PM   #5
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Don't know any details, but I feel certain the "budget-cutting" excuse for firing those four staffers was a smokescreen.

They replaced at least two anyway (the PR guy Paul Kirk and the BroncosTV guy .... what was his name?)
Andrew Mason I believe.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:56 PM   #6
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One extraordinary issue with your premise:

If Cutler wanted to weasel his trade into a contract. He could've.

Period.

Sooooooooooooooooo... /thread
True and true ... all the Cutler-haters concocted a conspiracy scenario wherein Bus Cook orchestrated the whole thing to avoid Jay's contract's '09 low-low salary year and get a new deal. But then ... first announcement after he was traded ... "we're gonna wait til next off-season to work a new deal."

Oops.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:58 PM   #7
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Andrew Mason I believe.
Yeeees.... how could I forget that guy?
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:04 PM   #8
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I know we have discussed this many times but really it doesn't strike you as a PR move for Cook to say that after he helped butcher his clients public image?
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:05 PM   #9
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True and true ... all the Cutler-haters concocted a conspiracy scenario wherein Bus Cook orchestrated the whole thing to avoid Jay's contract's '09 low-low salary year and get a new deal. But then ... first announcement after he was traded ... "we're gonna wait til next off-season to work a new deal."

Oops.
When, in all actuality, he says "I won't play for the Bear's without a new contract" pre-trade, and those 2 firsts and a third and Orton come off the table quick.

Think the Redskins wouldn't throw money at him?

Thought wrong.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:05 PM   #10
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I doubt there are any financial issues. I'm sure revenue is down with the recession, but the team seems to have all the money that it needs to get things done.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:06 PM   #11
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I know we have discussed this many times but really it doesn't strike you as a PR move for Cook to say that after he helped butcher his clients public image?
PR?

His job is to make money for his client.

He's an AGENT. Not PR.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:12 PM   #12
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I am an awful internet debater my typing sucks and my writing skills are that of a 12 year old, but someone here must be smart enough to point out how naive that statement is. Ok I shall bow out and leave this those of you who can handle a keyboard
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:21 PM   #13
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I am an awful internet debater my typing sucks and my writing skills are that of a 12 year old, but someone here must be smart enough to point out how naive that statement is. Ok I shall bow out and leave this those of you who can handle a keyboard
Dude...

You didn't even clarify which statement is naive...

Should I defend or destroy you?

I DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:36 PM   #14
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I think Cutler didn't want to play in Denver because he knew McDaniels wasn't going to do whatever he wanted and so he forced his way out so he could get a team that treated him like a god again. I know Manning is the same way but the Mannings and the Brady's are the hardest workers in the offseason and aren't plastered the night before game day wherein they are fumbling the ball on the five yard line against a crappy team at home.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:38 PM   #15
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Dude...

You didn't even clarify which statement is naive...

Should I defend or destroy you?

I DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's common knowledge agents are directly responsible for PR and advise their clients on Pr issues. This is largely because it directly affects their earning power and ability to land endorsement deals.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:43 PM   #16
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It's common knowledge agents are directly responsible for PR and advise their clients on Pr issues. This is largely because it directly affects their earning power and ability to land endorsement deals.
So what you're trying to tell me is that Cutler intentionally disregarded a new contract in order to clean his PR image to get a bigger deal next season when deals are primarily due to stats and he'll be in Chicago's offense with Chi's WRs?

Khan... are you ****ing kidding me?
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:45 PM   #17
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So what you're trying to tell me is that Cutler intentionally disregarded a new contract in order to clean his PR image to get a bigger deal next season when deals are primarily due to stats and he'll be in Chicago's offense with Chi's WRs?

Khan... are you ****ing kidding me?
No I didn't agree with that overall argument, I was speaking specifically to the point he made suggesting you were naive to think that agents don't do PR things. That was incredibly stupid.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:48 PM   #18
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No I didn't agree with that overall argument, I was speaking specifically to the point he made suggesting you were naive to think that agents don't do PR things. That was incredibly stupid.
It's the overall picture. Jay could've EASILY landed himself a new contract if that was his motivation as this thread stupidly implies. Anyone who argues the contrary is legitimately dumb. Regardless, who cares?
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:54 PM   #19
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Sooooooooooooooooo... /thread
Wow, dude. A self-end thread?

You're better than that.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:56 PM   #20
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Wow, dude. A self-end thread?

You're better than that.
Sorry, but as OP, you have a responsibility not to build threads on retarded premises.

Clearly, you failed. Your responsibility. Not mine:

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Marshall pulled almost the exact about-face Cutler did, only at least Marshall admitted it's about money. (Mostly.) Cutlerbus tried to weasel out of it as being some sort of conflict of player/coach interest.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:59 PM   #21
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It's the overall picture. Jay could've EASILY landed himself a new contract if that was his motivation as this thread stupidly implies.
How do you know?

How do you know for a fact that the organization HAS the money that he's looking for, and was willing to offer it up?

So, by your logic, Jay Cutler could have easily made himself one of, if not THE highest paid QB in the game... and simply didn't do it because McDaniels hurt his feelings?

Really?

You don't think there's ANY possible way that Cutler and his agent were given some sort of tell that the golden goose wasn't laying eggs?

Both Marshall AND Cutler pulled the "trade me immediately" card VERY quickly, VERY early in the negotiations.

I'm not claiming to know either way.... but that sure smells an awful lot like someone may have stomped on their big contract aspirations.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:01 AM   #22
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One extraordinary issue with your premise:

If Cutler wanted to weasel his trade into a contract. He could've.

Period.

Sooooooooooooooooo... /thread
Butt, butt, Cutler wanted a new contract!....

He's playing for less than BM. Da Bears aren't paying his SB.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:03 AM   #23
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How do you know?

How do you know for a fact that the organization HAS the money that he's looking for, and was willing to offer it up?

So, by your logic, Jay Cutler could have easily made himself one of, if not THE highest paid QB in the game... and simply didn't do it because McDaniels hurt his feelings?

Really?

You don't think there's ANY possible way that Cutler and his agent were given some sort of tell that the golden goose wasn't laying eggs?

Both Marshall AND Cutler pulled the "trade me immediately" card VERY quickly, VERY early in the negotiations.

I'm not claiming to know either way.... but that sure smells an awful lot like someone may have stomped on their big contract aspirations.
You mean to tell me the Jets or Redskins or multiple other teams involved in trade talks wouldn't offer a contract?

Popps, since you seem to ignorant or are playing yourself to be... let me remind you how trade talks work.

Step 1:

Team places player on trade block and notifies agent

OR

Agent requests trade, team agrees and notifies agent to facilitate trade.

Step 2 (REGARDLESS of how step one worked out):

AGENT works out a deal with other team (contract, and compensation for current team)

Step 3:

Agent proposes deal to current team.

Step 4:

Trade completed.

Now, obviously there are exceptions to the rule. Plummer unwilling to TB for example.

However, NEVER are there exceptions to the rule when TWO FIRSTS AND THEN SOME, are the compensation. This is a deal agreed upon by all.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:05 AM   #24
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Also, Popps, you, nor I, have ANY idea how "quickly" BM pulled the "trade me" card. So get your **** together or shut the **** up.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:07 AM   #25
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It's an important issue. I'm glad you brought it up, Popps. It is very difficult to tell. Most recently, Bowlen announced that the team was doing "fine" financially, but it has also been noted by Bowlen himself that unlike some of the other owners in the league, the large majority of his income is based on profits from the football team. He isn't independently wealthy like the Hunt family or like a Paul Allen, for example.

A poster on this board, I think it might have been killericon said that he did have oil holdings in Canada and I seem to remember a remark that the investments were doing poorly. Ofcourse, the Broncos themselves made several cutbacks to support staff last year, most notably being Andrew Mason and Paul Kirk, as noted above, although I agree with BroncoBuff that its a stretch that "economics" forced them to can two guys who probably didn't make more than 150k combined. I suspect that relatively speaking the Broncos are feeling at least a little bit of a pinch, just like anyone in this recession. But I'm just not sure if there is substantial evidence out there that there is a real cash flow problem beyond that.

It is true that our spending practices have become tighter recently, but that was true even before the economy hit a free fall as Bowlen announced in Spring, 08 that we were going to change the philosophy of aggressive FA additions and focus on a more prudent strategy of drafting and finding bargains, while making only moderate investments in FA. I think there is a good case to be made that this was a sincere (and warranted) philosophical change in belief, not necessarily just a pretext for keeping more profit.

The argument has been made that Bowlen giving a thumbs down to Shanny's proposal for a new training facility also suggests financial problems. That might be true, but there's just as good of a counterargument out there. Dove Valley is a top notch facility and is also relatively new, so it doesn't seem like a massive new investment was necessary on the merits.

The answer to this obviously would lie in the NFL's revenue data. We might actually get a chance to get our hands on it in the near future, as the NFLPA has been continually requesting internal financial documents from the League in the ongoing labor dispute that is probably going to come to a head in the next year. So far the league and owners have rebuffed them. That does suggest on the surface that perhaps the league is not doing as badly as they have been representing to the union, but its still just speculation. For the Broncos specifically, I have noticed that they remain among the Top 6,7 in terms of team value in the annual Forbes rankings and that would appear to suggest that their revenue streams can't be doing too badly, considering the relatively new stadium and what appear to be lucrative local TV deals.

Overall, I suspect they are probably taking a hit, but its not a truly substantial one. That's just my speculation based on all these things, though.

We'll see.
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