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Old 06-23-2009, 11:06 AM   #1
Pontius Pirate
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Default OT: Unions - love 'em or hate 'em?

Was just reading this piece on Donald Fehr, and it reminded me how much I hate unions:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....html?bcnn=yes
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:06 AM   #2
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:08 AM   #3
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:14 AM   #4
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Unions will be the death of capitalism and are slowly choking the life out of the American dream. At the start they served a valuable purpose ensuring safe working conditions and fair pay, they have since become a haven for lazy workers and a way to extort the people who make the economy go. Institutionalized sloth. I guess you could say I don't like them much.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:18 AM   #5
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Unions will be the death of capitalism and are slowly choking the life out of the American dream. At the start they served a valuable purpose ensuring safe working conditions and fair pay, they have since become a haven for lazy workers and a way to extort the people who make the economy go. Institutionalized sloth. I guess you could say I don't like them much.
What? Are you saying the auto industry might be in better shape right now without unions? nahhhhh, no way!
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:25 AM   #6
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What? Are you saying the auto industry might be in better shape right now without unions? nahhhhh, no way!
Folks, take notice of how to use sarcasm on the internet in a superb manner.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:25 AM   #7
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Wow, a lot of union hate here. While I agree that union demands can get out of hand, the idea of a union is essential to protect workers rights and to create acceptable wages to ensure a strong middle class (obviously, for those who know my political views, this comes as no surprise). Without unions, the corporates would take advantage of workers to no end. As said, while I agree that union demands often get out of hands, there's a happy medium to be had. People suck on both sides of the equation, but the idea of the union is sound. Don't give me this "destroys capitalism" BS. That is only if you want a few rich fat cats and an underpaid workforce...you know, something like we already have.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:26 AM   #8
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Unions are destroying everything that they originally fought for because theyre nothing more than greedy coalitions of people who want to phase out competition for jobs while they try to provide themselves more and more opportunity to be lazy.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:27 AM   #9
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Unions are for the weak minded, weak soul, week kneed.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:29 AM   #10
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Unions are destroying everything that they originally fought for because theyre nothing more than greedy coalitions of people who want to phase out competition for jobs while they try to provide themselves more and more opportunity to be lazy.
Agreed unions can be greedy....but...they are formed to protect themselves against greed. Kind of a vicious cycle, aint it? Humans just screw everything up. You'd think there was some alien force that pushes us to **** ourselves...nope, we just do it on our own accord
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BroncoInSkinland View Post
Unions will be the death of capitalism and are slowly choking the life out of the American dream. At the start they served a valuable purpose ensuring safe working conditions and fair pay, they have since become a haven for lazy workers and a way to extort the people who make the economy go. Institutionalized sloth. I guess you could say I don't like them much.
This
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:31 AM   #12
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Agreed unions can be greedy....but...they are formed to protect themselves against greed. Kind of a vicious cycle, aint it? Humans just screw everything up. You'd think there was some alien force that pushes us to **** ourselves...nope, we just do it on our own accord

1. you obviously work for a union
2. The only people which "screw everything up" are those flipping liberals who believe it is "the right to happiness" instead of "the right to pursue happiness"
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:35 AM   #13
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Without unions, the corporates would take advantage of workers to no end.
Really? There are no union employees at my company, and we are doing quite well (considering the current state of the economy). I'm certainly not being taken advantage of by my employer.

And actually, I would argue the opposite......unions have been taking advantage of the companies they work for....extorting pay raises and other benefits, when in the case of the big auto manufacturers, they can't afford.

People need to be reminded (apparently) that it is a priveledge, NOT A RIGHT, to have a job.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:41 AM   #14
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1. you obviously work for a union
2. The only people which "screw everything up" are those flipping liberals who believe it is "the right to happiness" instead of "the right to pursue happiness"
I actually don't work for a union, but have been taken advantage of by corporates. I'm just a "flipping liberal" with socialist leanings. And spare me the lectures, trust me, im educated and didn't just come to my beliefs all willy nilly. I will respect your beliefs even though we don't agree, please respect mine.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:42 AM   #15
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Really? There are no union employees at my company, and we are doing quite well (considering the current state of the economy). I'm certainly not being taken advantage of by my employer.

And actually, I would argue the opposite......unions have been taking advantage of the companies they work for....extorting pay raises and other benefits, when in the case of the big auto manufacturers, they can't afford.

People need to be reminded (apparently) that it is a priveledge, NOT A RIGHT, to have a job.
I agree unions have taken advantage of employers, i said they've gone overboard. But just because your company has treated their employees well, doesn't mean they all do (and im sure you'll agree.) As I stated, there's a happy medium to be had here with unions, but to abolish them will further divide the classes, when we really should aspire for a strong middle class. Not just for equality reasons, but for a functioning economy, we need a spending middle class.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:48 AM   #16
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All unions are is a way to collect money for the purposes of one political party. Anything you HAVE to join automatically makes me suspect.


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Old 06-23-2009, 11:50 AM   #17
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Really? There are no union employees at my company, and we are doing quite well (considering the current state of the economy). I'm certainly not being taken advantage of by my employer.

And actually, I would argue the opposite......unions have been taking advantage of the companies they work for....extorting pay raises and other benefits, when in the case of the big auto manufacturers, they can't afford.

People need to be reminded (apparently) that it is a priveledge, NOT A RIGHT, to have a job.
Yet, for my and my coworkers - business is very much taking advantage of us.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:59 AM   #18
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Wow, a lot of union hate here. While I agree that union demands can get out of hand, the idea of a union is essential to protect workers rights and to create acceptable wages to ensure a strong middle class (obviously, for those who know my political views, this comes as no surprise). Without unions, the corporates would take advantage of workers to no end. As said, while I agree that union demands often get out of hands, there's a happy medium to be had. People suck on both sides of the equation, but the idea of the union is sound. Don't give me this "destroys capitalism" BS. That is only if you want a few rich fat cats and an underpaid workforce...you know, something like we already have.
I'm not surprised you'd "back" unions to a large extent based on your history of posts in the political field. You easily come of as a socialist thinker... too bad it fails everywhere.

What many people who don't understand why unions are a pile of **** don't get is that humans who rise into power are more often than not... corrupt masses of filth. Thus, practically every major union is corrupt. There's a reason the Japanese auto industry is raping our companies... there's also a reason why GM vehicles made and sold in China are doing so well.

Unions gain money and spend it to control politicians and so forth. They subscribe to the socialist and dare I say almost communist philosophy of equality which simply isn't healthy or truly viable for a corporation to maintain. Due to the insane benefits given to workers currently in the auto industry, companies like GM and Chrysler practically exist as a form of health care/pension creation due to the Union stranglehold.

They've failed because of the parasitic nature of humans to get as much as they can.

Oh and as one person said... anything you are essentially FORCED to join not of your own freewill isn't democratic.

Oh, and **** unions.

Last edited by UberBroncoMan; 06-23-2009 at 12:05 PM..
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:05 PM   #19
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I'm not surprised you'd "back" unions to a large extent based on your history of posts in the political field. You easily come of as a socialist thinker... too bad it fails everywhere.

Oh, and **** unions.
I respect SonOfLe-loLang, disagree on politics, but still respect him. He's already stated many times he's a socialist.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:08 PM   #20
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I'm not surprised you'd "back" unions to a large extent based on your history of posts in the political field. You easily come of as a socialist thinker... too bad it fails everywhere.

What many people who don't understand why unions are a pile of **** don't get is that humans who rise into power are more often than not... corrupt masses of filth. Thus, practically every major union is corrupt. There's a reason the Japanese auto industry is raping our companies... there's also a reason why GM vehicles made and sold in China are doing so well.

Unions gain money and spend it to control politicians and so forth. They subscribe to the socialist and dare I say almost communist philosophy of equality which simply isn't healthy or truly viable for a corporation to maintain. Due to the insane benefits given to workers currently in the auto industry, companies like GM and Chrysler practically exist as a form of health care/pension creation due to the Union stranglehold.

They've failed because of the parasitic nature of humans to get as much as they can.

Oh and as one person said... anything you are essentially FORCED to join not of your own freewill isn't democratic.

Oh, and **** unions.

What about corporations that use the same capital influence in the capitol to exert their own rules for labor? Isn't it the same thing?
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:08 PM   #21
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Wow, a lot of union hate here. While I agree that union demands can get out of hand, the idea of a union is essential to protect workers rights and to create acceptable wages to ensure a strong middle class (obviously, for those who know my political views, this comes as no surprise). Without unions, the corporates would take advantage of workers to no end. As said, while I agree that union demands often get out of hands, there's a happy medium to be had. People suck on both sides of the equation, but the idea of the union is sound. Don't give me this "destroys capitalism" BS. That is only if you want a few rich fat cats and an underpaid workforce...you know, something like we already have.
Not going to bother debating you, your views are probably as set in stone as mine are. But be aware that when the government run corporations come crashing down due to the unsustainable nature of their respective business models the "underpaid" workforce is going to be looking for jobs while the "fat cats" will be busy driving the economy just as they always have. You get what you work for in the world, modern unions are a way to circumvent that ... for a limited amount of time.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:09 PM   #22
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I respect SonOfLe-loLang, disagree on politics, but still respect him. He's already stated many times he's a socialist.
I don't respect his stances since he's a radical thinker when it comes to the liberal democracy that's historically been a part of the United States. When I hear a rampant socialist cry how Obama isn't really one it just makes me /facepalm. There's a reason for the attraction. It's really hard to look at anything he says politically and go... oh yeah!?

If you want socialism to work, find another species or watch Star Trek.

Edit: oh and I should add... that socialism in Star Trek looks great! Hell I might not mind living in that type of world. But it's utter fantasy and based on humans not being greedy, killing one another etc. It's simply not possible for their to be a world where everyone has the necessities they need, there is too much hate based on stupid **** like race/culture (China actually hates us a great deal in reality). We're not going to get food replicators to feed the planet etc. The 200,000 child soldiers in Africa aren't going to wake up and say... oh ****, maybe I shouldn't have let myself get brainwashed and kill that village. There will always be evil to prevent good from being absolute.

Humans are what they are, and the best possible form of living is Roman Republic/United States style of governing HOWEVER our nation needs an extremely strict vetting process, and term limits to stem corruption (that means Senate/House seats get 1-2 terms max) and any decent/major sign of corruption from an individual disqualifies them. Liberal Democracy would flourish if the people in charge of our nation weren't spending all their time maintaining and abusing their power rather than focusing it on the betterment of the people they were hired/voted to serve.

With humans the way they are... if we added socialism/communism and let all these corrupt mother ****ers have even MORE POWER, then we're a ****ing stupid species that can't grasp REALITY. This is why I can't see how any intelligent human being would want socialism/communism. It's just giving more power to the already powerful corrupt.

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Old 06-23-2009, 12:13 PM   #23
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What about corporations that use the same capital influence in the capitol to exert their own rules for labor? Isn't it the same thing?
The difference is that the unions will destroy the economy due to the destruction of the corporations they infest. We have set laws on how labor forces are to be treated... minimum wage... etc. Unions are a large reason why so much work has gone overseas. Corporations and people keep the economy running... if a union destroys a corporation, then the people still lose their job and their cash flow. Thus the union is by far the greater of two evils (if you want to call it that).

Power leads to corruption. Yes corporations included. However the damage done by the union train of thought is vastly greater in a nation that is inherently a liberal democracy (liberal democracy doesn't mean "liberal" like a socialist by the way).
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:22 PM   #24
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where were all you bastards to back me up in the other thread about unions 2 week ago bastages! hahahahahaha

queue spider in 3....2.....
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:25 PM   #25
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where were all you bastards to back me up in the other thread about unions 2 week ago bastages! hahahahahaha

queue spider in 3....2.....
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