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Old 06-18-2009, 07:22 PM   #1
80smith
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Default Orton . . . gunslinger? 2007 article

Found this totaly interesting......

David Haugh's Bears mailbag
The Tribune's Bears writer answers reader questions each week during the season
December 27, 2007
Kyle Orton . . . gunslinger?

Drew Brees used that word to describe his successor at Purdue, where quarterbacks practically are issued a holster and ammo clip with their playbooks.

But in the NFL, the Bears have yet to equip Orton with any schematic weapons that have much more range than a paintball gun. Given that, nobody should be surprised that with the Bears Orton has become known for taking what the defense gives him more than taking shots downfield.

Of Orton's 52 pass attempts this year, for example, 42 have traveled 10 yards or less, according to STATS. In 2005, 70 percent of his 368 pass attempts were of the same short, safe distance.

But to paraphrase football philosopher Dennis Green, is Orton really who we thought he is? Or does a high-risk, high-reward quarterback lurk somewhere within him?

"[At Purdue] he was kind of a gunslinger and has that mentality he could go out there and make a few mistakes, put it aside and move on,'' Brees said of Orton.

Perhaps to truly see what they have in their No. 3 quarterback, the Bears have to put aside the shackles and let Orton be Orton. Offensive coordinator Ron Turner remembers that guy from his days coaching against Orton at Illinois. Could Turner envision the day when somebody uses Brees' description about Orton the NFL quarterback?

"Yeah, definitely he could be one,'' Turner said.
OK, then, wide receivers at 50 paces. Weather permitting, Sunday at Soldier Field would be a good place for Orton to start taking target practice just to see.

Could he do enough against the Saints to affect the Bears' off-season thinking at quarterback? A good question, and these are too.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,6482324.story

Now that Orton is on a team with some offensive weapons and a good line, could this happen?

Last edited by 80smith; 06-18-2009 at 08:08 PM.. Reason: To put in the link
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:47 PM   #2
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i truly think he is going to have a great season in Denver.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Now that Orton is on a team with some offensive weapons and a good line, could this happen?
Orton should have a good pass blocking line, and With Hamilton as the missing link in run blocking, yet Moreno and Graham and Hillis, We should have a team that can run again. But w/o BM, teams will roll to Royal, and Moreno deosn't have great moves. Frank;y, he was a huge reach at 10 IMO.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:01 PM   #4
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I can't wait to see what he can accomplish with real, live weapons and line.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watermock View Post
Orton should have a good pass blocking line, and With Hamilton as the missing link in run blocking, yet Moreno and Graham and Hillis, We should have a team that can run again. But w/o BM, teams will roll to Royal, and Moreno deosn't have great moves. Frank;y, he was a huge reach at 10 IMO.
Thank god we drafted in the 12th spot.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by watermock View Post
Orton should have a good pass blocking line, and With Hamilton as the missing link in run blocking, yet Moreno and Graham and Hillis, We should have a team that can run again. But w/o BM, teams will roll to Royal, and Moreno deosn't have great moves. Frank;y, he was a huge reach at 10 IMO.
So at 12 is he a better pick?
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:31 PM   #7
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ahahahahahaha!!

Moreno will not disappoint. Bank on it. The kid will be a star. He has the fire in the belly.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watermock View Post
Orton should have a good pass blocking line, and With Hamilton as the missing link in run blocking, yet Moreno and Graham and Hillis, We should have a team that can run again. But w/o BM, teams will roll to Royal, and Moreno deosn't have great moves. Frank;y, he was a huge reach at 10 IMO.
Why do you go so far out of your way to display how little you know about the topics you discuss?
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:47 PM   #9
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12 then.

How many Georgia games did you see? I saw Geogria almost weekly.

He's very strong and pretty elusive, but doesn't create his own space.

Hillis had to bulk up so much he lost some elusiveness and his hammy. He's more of a 225 back.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Flex Gunmetal View Post
Why do you go so far out of your way to display how little you know about the topics you discuss?
What? forgetting Moreno was a 12 instead of 10?

Or that Orokapo was there@ 12?
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Flex Gunmetal View Post
Why do you go so far out of your way to display how little you know about the topics you discuss?
Moreno was the consensus #1 RB in the draft and one of the few things almost all draft analysts agreed on. He absolutely tore it up in college, and against quality competition... not just scrub teams.

Mock was going ballistic when we didn't draft Vernon Davis and Justin Fargas, if that tells you anything.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:49 AM   #12
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Getting back to Orton tho,

One year. That's all. He's got one year to show what he can do. None of this nonsense about learning the system, getting adjusted to the AFC West blah, blah, blah. We've got a QB guru as coach who targetted this guy with a loaded offense. Orton needs to get it done now or get out.

This team can't afford to send two/three years down the drain to find out if we need to draft then next franchise QB.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watermock View Post
12 then.

How many Georgia games did you see? I saw Geogria almost weekly.

He's very strong and pretty elusive, but doesn't create his own space.

Hillis had to bulk up so much he lost some elusiveness and his hammy. He's more of a 225 back.
Hillis shed 5 pounds and is back down from his senior year and rookie weight of 250 to around 245 now.
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Getting back to Orton tho,

One year. That's all. He's got one year to show what he can do. None of this nonsense about learning the system, getting adjusted to the AFC West blah, blah, blah. We've got a QB guru as coach who targetted this guy with a loaded offense. Orton needs to get it done now or get out.

This team can't afford to send two/three years down the drain to find out if we need to draft then next franchise QB.
Too bad McD traded away next years #1 we could've had a chance at Bradford
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:42 AM   #15
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Too bad McD traded away next years #1 we could've had a chance at Bradford
Am I the only one not sold on Bradford? I prefer good QB's that play on crap teams. They can not hide near as many flaws.
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:47 AM   #16
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Am I the only one not sold on Bradford? I prefer good QB's that play on crap teams. They can not hide near as many flaws.
I thought you hated Cutler
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Getting back to Orton tho,

One year. That's all. He's got one year to show what he can do. None of this nonsense about learning the system, getting adjusted to the AFC West blah, blah, blah. We've got a QB guru as coach who targetted this guy with a loaded offense. Orton needs to get it done now or get out.

This team can't afford to send two/three years down the drain to find out if we need to draft then next franchise QB.
True. I think he'll have an adequate year, though. He's not a horrible QB at all. He's actually a decent QB.

In fact, comparing Jay's and Orton's stats from last year, they're pretty close to each other stat-wise.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...O/OrtoKy00.htm

Take a look at the Yds/Completion (which indicates your 'gunslinger' types) for some QB's in 2008:

Cutler 11.8
Orton 10.9
Brees 12.3
Rivers 12.8
Warner 11.4
McNabb 11.4
Rodgers 11.8
Cassel 11.3
Peyton 10.8 (has routinely been in the 12 + YPC range for his career, tho)
Romo 12.5
Roeth 11.7
Collins 11.1
Brady (2007) 12.1

Orton was obviously not your 'gunslinger' type, and probably won't be here. I think the YPC will go up some into the 11.5 range because of better skill players around him.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Getting back to Orton tho,

One year. That's all. He's got one year to show what he can do. None of this nonsense about learning the system, getting adjusted to the AFC West blah, blah, blah. We've got a QB guru as coach who targetted this guy with a loaded offense. Orton needs to get it done now or get out.

This team can't afford to send two/three years down the drain to find out if we need to draft then next franchise QB.

This is foolish, IMO. Why one year? That seems like an arbitrary number. Are you gonna give EVERY player one year to 'show what they can do' in their new system? Look, Orton has tools and talents. He's learning a largely new system, unlike Cassel who practiced in it for multiple years before coming in and 'showing what he can do'. This team is rebuilding at nearly every position that isn't OL. Anything worth doing is worth doing badly. Kyle will look bad at times but that's the key to getting better. Cutler looked horrid at times but got better. Kyle will as well. One year is an unfair standard, IMO. This whole team is on a 3 year window right now. They will not contend this year, and have an outside chance next year if continuity and the learning curve cooperate. Year 3 is where I look for significant progress and contention for titles.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:51 AM   #19
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This is foolish, IMO. Why one year? That seems like an arbitrary number. Are you gonna give EVERY player one year to 'show what they can do' in their new system? Look, Orton has tools and talents. He's learning a largely new system, unlike Cassel who practiced in it for multiple years before coming in and 'showing what he can do'. This team is rebuilding at nearly every position that isn't OL. Anything worth doing is worth doing badly. Kyle will look bad at times but that's the key to getting better. Cutler looked horrid at times but got better. Kyle will as well. One year is an unfair standard, IMO. This whole team is on a 3 year window right now. They will not contend this year, and have an outside chance next year if continuity and the learning curve cooperate. Year 3 is where I look for significant progress and contention for titles.
Good post.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:29 AM   #20
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Orton should have a good pass blocking line, and With Hamilton as the missing link in run blocking, yet Moreno and Graham and Hillis, We should have a team that can run again. But w/o BM, teams will roll to Royal, and Moreno deosn't have great moves. Frank;y, he was a huge reach at 10 IMO.
Are you smoking crack?

If Moreno has anything, it's great "moves." His knock is his straight line speed, but when it comes to decisiveness, cutting, change of direction, and "moves," he was definitely the best in this year's draft.

I really liked Shonn Greene also, but I think Moreno is definitely a better fit for McD's offense. Couple that with his receiving skills, and i think he was definitely worth a #12 pick.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27 View Post
This is foolish, IMO. Why one year? That seems like an arbitrary number. Are you gonna give EVERY player one year to 'show what they can do' in their new system? Look, Orton has tools and talents. He's learning a largely new system, unlike Cassel who practiced in it for multiple years before coming in and 'showing what he can do'. This team is rebuilding at nearly every position that isn't OL. Anything worth doing is worth doing badly. Kyle will look bad at times but that's the key to getting better. Cutler looked horrid at times but got better. Kyle will as well. One year is an unfair standard, IMO. This whole team is on a 3 year window right now. They will not contend this year, and have an outside chance next year if continuity and the learning curve cooperate. Year 3 is where I look for significant progress and contention for titles.
Eh - I agree somewhat that Orton needs to show something this year. He needs to get better as the year progresses, and by the end of the year, he needs to look good in the system. Like he belongs. If he does not, I get the feeling McDaniels will be looking to bring in some real competition for next year.

As for the team - I am a McDaniels supporter, but 3 years is too long. Again, I think next year, the Broncos better be making some serious noise. I'm not calling for Super Bowl victories. However, they should make the playoffs, and be a tough, tough team to beat. If they are not, I will be questioning McD. Not saying he wouldn't get a third year. But, I would say no playoffs next year would be a big disappointment.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:44 PM   #22
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The Broncos will be the surprise team of 2009.

I'm not saying 13-3 and the AFC Title game though.

Everyone is talking 4-12, 5-11 and the like. I say they finish in the 8-8 to 9-7 range and put a scare into some teams in some of those losses.

I base this on nothing more than a gut feeling. A gut that is digesting things this way:

-Orton will be better than people think - the dude won games with no weapons and an offense with all the imagination of the evening news. Sure he had a pretty good defense backing him up but you still have to score and I didn't see Chicago winning all their games 2-0 or losing them 2-0. I'm not saying he's going to be Elway-esque, I'm just saying in this offense with these weapons (with or without BM) he will have a better year than most folks are expecting.

-The O-Line - this is the main reason Orton and this offense will be able to score points.

- The defense will be better - this is almost a default assumption but I think they will take a step forward. They won't be able to stand toe to toe with the best offenses around but they will be a middle of the pack defense capable of playing with most offenses they go up against.

- The injury bug has flown - it was ridiculous last year the inuries this team had. It won't happen like that this year. There will still be injuries but not decimating the ranks like last year.

- Past performance does not guarantee future results - We just don't know who is going to be good this year and who is going to tank. Everyone talks like they do, but they don't. Last year the Cowboys, New Orleans, Jacksonville, San Diego and the Jets were all thought by many to be contenders last year. Only Dallas finished above .500 (and they missed the playoffs), while Atlanta, Miami and Baltimore all finished 11-5 and made the playoffs. This doesn't even take into account the ARIZONA FREAKIN' CARDINALS MAKING THE SUPER BOWL!!! So, while the Broncos schedule looks brutal this year right now, it doesn't mean that it will be that brutal when all is said and done. It'll still be a tough schedule but HOW tough remains to be seen. Look at last year's schedule what was everyone saying? Their strength of schedule was 4th worst in the league at the beginning of the season. They ended up playing against 9 teams .500 or better, 6 games against playoff teams.

That is my logic (such as it is) for having pretty much "a feeling" that while 2009 won't be a breakthrough year it will be better for the Broncs than most people think.

Mark it and file it and after the season pay homage if I am right and flame the hell right out of me if I am wrong.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:49 PM   #23
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Awesome article and dead on!
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