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Old 06-17-2009, 01:03 PM   #1
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Long post. Sorry.

At this point, I could care less about Cutler, Marshall, the Goodmans or any past or future disgruntled employee of the Broncos. For the purpose of this thread, what I care about is that the foundation of a stable front office is in place to allow the Broncos to be rebuilt and achieve success.

There are many reasons why corporations\teams succeed, however there is a much shorter list of reasons of why they fail. I am curious how ya’ll would rate the 2009 Broncos front office against five of these factors that dramatically hinder the success of a company\team

Here are five factors and my observations.

1) Unclearly defined roles and responsibilities

What is the current division of power in the front office? The buck might stop with Pat but are the lines clearly drawn between each job? Comments to the media do not seem to accurately reflect the roles that are being assumed. For instance, Bowlen is on record saying that ‘Xanders will oversee all of the team's player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations’. Yet in every case this off-season it appears to be Bowlen and McDaniels that are leading. Sometimes at different times for similar situations. If it is not understood by the media, I have a tough time believing that it is not equally hard for the entire organization.

2) Poor communication
As a result of unclear roles and responsibilities, it appears that messages communicated from the front office to player reps and the media are conflicting or misunderstood. This front office seems incapable of communicating a consistent message.

3) Lack of experience in leadership roles
McDaniels, Xanders and Bowlen are all acting in roles that are new to them. Two of them also being very young. McDaniels in particular has never had experience working in an unstable organizational structure.

4) Quick shifts in strategic direction
This front office has set policy then had their actions immediately contradict it. Repeatedly. The Goodmans stay…then they go. Cutler stays…then he goes. Each case you might be able to explain away but looking at the entire body of work this off-season, the front office appears to be very reactive. Their strategy seems predicated on what others do, rather than on what they set themselves.


5) Lack of confidence in leadership by top performers
Both Cutler and Marshall have requested a change of scenery. You can lay it on the doorstep of the agent or the player but ultimately the more this happens the more you have to look inward at the organization.

Ask yourself the question...Is Denver appealing right now to highly sought after FAs? It used to be. It was once a prestigious place to play and often sited as a reason for why a FA signed here.


Blame each episode of drama this off-season on the player, the agent or another external source. However, until this front office is stabilized and acts as a cohesive unit, the only thing that will be consistant is that issues will continue to occur.

Accountability starts at the top. At this point I believe that any success the 2009 Broncos have on the field will be in spite of the front office and not due to it.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:06 PM   #2
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Easy now, Veruca. They haven't even played a down yet.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:07 PM   #3
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Easy now, Veruca. They haven't even played a down yet.
Not about playing. Its about the front office. Plenty of material here to evaluate its performance on the factors I am talking about.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:12 PM   #4
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Not about playing. Its about the front office. Plenty of material here to evaluate its performance on the factors I am talking about.
You are evaluating there evaluation before the product can even be evaluated. If Cutler goes out completes 55% of his passes for 2300 yards 16 TD's and 16 ints is this a good trade?
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:17 PM   #5
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You are evaluating there evaluation before the product can even be evaluated. If Cutler goes out completes 55% of his passes for 2300 yards 16 TD's and 16 ints is this a good trade?
Even if they hit gold on every single trade, I am saying that this FO, to date, has been ineffective based on the five factors I named.

How do you think the FO has performed against these criteria?

Now if you don't think these are important factors in determining the success of teams...that is another thing.

Last edited by worm; 06-17-2009 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:19 PM   #6
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Worm, you beat me to it. I was actually responding to Popps in the "Bailey gets cut" thread and I posted a lot of crazy info about similarities between the acquisitions last year under Shanahan now this offseason with McDaniels. I'll copy here:

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Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Wrong what, Muff?

He was a bloody disaster and the perfect example of just how inept the prior admin. was at solving these problems.

Worst defense in the league.... the answer? Boss Bailey.



The ****ing guy was injured on the FIRST PLAY of pre-season.

He's a total joke. Detroit fans told us he was a joke, and was soft. He came in here and proved it immediately.

Anyone can be "picked up." That doesn't mean ****, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should be playing games with this fragile ****. This should have happened much earlier. It's probably only out of respect to Champ that it didn't.
I think you phrased it wrong. He was a good, young player when healthy. He actually played very well when he was on the field through the game at KC from what I saw. I would say he had size, range and took on blocks fairly well.

The label given in Detroit was that he was fragile and has a history of injuries which turned out to be true, like most predicted.

The previous staff is guilty of believing in him. Last offseason was an abomination in terms of FA talent but we still haven't figured out why didn't make bigger plays for better personnel despite having some money on hand.

A note that has made rounds this year and was being rumored last year is that Bowlen was cash strapped and Shanny had to do things on the cheap. One could say with 30 million to spend this offseason, the same thing transpired. Hill, Goodman, Dawkins are all either old, over the hill and overrated compared with the contracts they signed. We could be saying the same thing next offseason that we are saying this offseason about the players we just signed which leaves a big arrow pointing to Bowlen as the real problem here. He can't and won't compete in a spending competition with other NFL owners. Good ol' daddy warbucks is running out of cash and the promises he made to Bronco fans about building him a stadium 10 years ago so he can compete in a growing free agent market are completely untrue.

We're possibly heading towards being the Clippers on the NFL.

Look at all the signs:

- Shanny's huge contract replaced by a 32 year old 1st time head coach. Shanny was making what, 7 million? McDaniels will make 3 million over 3 years? Sure, Bowlen is on the docket for the rest of Mike's contract but he knows that Shanahan will get hired elsewhere within a year and it will be taken off his books.

- Half of the FO was replaced by 1st time people. Col. Zanders? What the **** has he ever done in scouting? His last boss with Atlanta scoffed at the notion that he was hired as GM saying he's never been out scouting on the road in his life. He's a numbers cruncher, a cap manager.

- Numerous other scouts released, including media staff.

- Jay Cutler and his potential mega contract was traded away. In this market, with Cutler growing the way he is in terms of talent, popularity and exposure, he'll probably be signing over a 100 million dollar contract with a signing bonus NORTH of 30 million.

- Brandon Marshall's wish to be traded will be granted per his agent as said by Bowlen. He's another guy due to get a significant raise.

- Number 1 draft pick, surely now a top 5 pick, TRADED for pennies on the dollar. 30-40 million guaranteed although i'm estimating and I haven't seen how last year projected vs. this year to get a true figure. Speculation is rampant that Bowlen doesn't believe in paying top 10 players that much and considers it a poor investment.

We are seeing WHOLESALE changes with the way this franchise is being run by Bowlen. It's a progressive movement charted by Joe Ellis, aka WORMSWORD from the LOTR's trilogy, moving towards efficient business vs. a competitive one in a 32 team market which comprises the NFL.

We're in for some long, lean years boys and girls. Bowlen is passing this stupidity off as short term memory loss but he knows what the hell he is doing. McDaniels is merely a scapegoat. He's trimming the budget down as much as he can and basically damning the fans to subpar football by their favorite team.

I for one am not spending another dollar on the Broncos until I seen a change is the way we are running things and doing business. I vote with my money and this whole **** storm Bowlen is throwing us into is completely unacceptable. I buy jerseys, kids stuff, wife stuff, tickets, go on road trips to Denver and for what? To see Bowlen reap the reward of my money and not even try to make my team a winner? **** that.

Last edited by bpc; 06-17-2009 at 01:28 PM..
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:21 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by worm View Post
Long post. Sorry.

At this point, I could care less about Cutler, Marshall, the Goodmans or any past or future disgruntled employee of the Broncos. For the purpose of this thread, what I care about is that the foundation of a stable front office is in place to allow the Broncos to be rebuilt and achieve success.

There are many reasons why corporations\teams succeed, however there is a much shorter list of reasons of why they fail. I am curious how ya’ll would rate the 2009 Broncos front office against five of these factors that dramatically hinder the success of a company\team

Here are five factors and my observations.

1) Unclearly defined roles and responsibilities

What is the current division of power in the front office? The buck might stop with Pat but are the lines clearly drawn between each job? Comments to the media do not seem to accurately reflect the roles that are being assumed. For instance, Bowlen is on record saying that ‘Xanders will oversee all of the team's player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations’. Yet in every case this off-season it appears to be Bowlen and McDaniels that are leading. Sometimes at different times for similar situations. If it is not understood by the media, I have a tough time believing that it is not equally hard for the entire organization.

2) Poor communication
As a result of unclear roles and responsibilities, it appears that messages communicated from the front office to player reps and the media are conflicting or misunderstood. This front office seems incapable of communicating a consistent message.

3) Lack of experience in leadership roles
McDaniels, Xanders and Bowlen are all acting in roles that are new to them. Two of them also being very young. McDaniels in particular has never had experience working in an unstable organizational structure.

4) Quick shifts in strategic direction
This front office has set policy then had their actions immediately contradict it. Repeatedly. The Goodmans stay…then they go. Cutler stays…then he goes. Each case you might be able to explain away but looking at the entire body of work this off-season, the front office appears to be very reactive. Their strategy seems predicated on what others do, rather than on what they set themselves.


5) Lack of confidence in leadership by top performers
Both Cutler and Marshall have requested a change of scenery. You can lay it on the doorstep of the agent or the player but ultimately the more this happens the more you have to look inward at the organization.

Ask yourself the question...Is Denver appealing right now to highly sought after FAs? It used to be. It was once a prestigious place to play and often sited as a reason for why a FA signed here.


Blame each episode of drama this off-season on the player, the agent or another external source. However, until this front office is stabilized and acts as a cohesive unit, the only thing that will be consistant is that issues will continue to occur.

Accountability starts at the top. At this point I believe that any success the 2009 Broncos have on the field will be in spite of the front office and not due to it.
Aren't you making huge assumptions by only basing your observations off what you have read? Who's to say the roles of Bowlen McDaniels, and Xanders aren't being filled just as Pat said? Do you have insider contacts?

Last I checked, most GM's are seen or heard. Just because Xanders name isn't mentioned much does mean his not performing his job.

Have there been missteps? Of course. That's to be expected by those so relatively new to management. One the whole though, the FO has setup a pretty nice foundation for the team moving forward.

Last edited by Traveler; 06-17-2009 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:27 PM   #8
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Aren't you making huge assumptions by only basing your observations off what you have read? Who's to say the roles of Bowlen McDaniels, and Xanders aren't being fill just as Pat said? Do you have insider contacts?

Last I checked, most GM's are seen or heard. Just because Xanders name isn't mentioned much does mean his not performing his job.

Have there been missteps? Of course. That's to be expected by those so relatively new to management. One the whole though, the FO has setup a pretty nice foundation for the team moving forward.
Of course. That is why I am calling them MY observations. It sounds like you are saying that you believe the roles\responsibilities are clearly defined. That communication is effective. That there is enough experience. That the strategic direction is steady. That there is complete confidence in star players with this organization.

If so...I am seeing something very different. Maybe I am being pessimistic but I see all the leading indicators of a failing team here from the cheap seats. I can only hope you are right and everything the media reports is inaccurate.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:30 PM   #9
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I've edited your factors.


1) Unclearly defined roles and responsibilities to the press and public at large.

You're erroneously concluding that since you don't know the responsibilities and hierarchy then there must not be one. This is like saying your heart doesn't work because it hasn't been explained to you yet. There is a functioning chain of command in place and like all places some of those duties are articulated and some are not. In this case neither has been disclosed. You might disagree with the decisions, but that doesn't mean the model isn't functioning properly.

2) Poor communication to the press and public at large.
They have a right to disclose or not disclose anything they wish. This is more ruffled feathers on new press policies in a regime change. This doesn't mean that internal communication isn't working. Just because we don't know doesn't mean they don't know either.

3) Lack of experience in leadership roles
This is the first and only one I agree with. Rookie GM and Rookie head coach in the same season is a bit much and no question some of the problems we've had have arisen from both guys stubbing their toes learning their roles and the ramifications therein.

4) Quick shifts in strategic direction
This should be considered a positive. Adjusting to new situations and redirecting your approach after short term obstacles arise is paramount to any kind of success. Their overall strategic direction has not changed. Only their approach has. They have pursued smart, versatile, physically and mentally tough players with good character from the beginning, and every single player and coach they've brought in or kept have met these criteria.


5) Lack of confidence in leadership by top performers
This is a problem with the players, not the leadership. Marshall wants money and Cutler is a whining drunk. That the other players have fallen in line and are excited about this season tells me all I need to.


Quote:
Accountability starts at the top. At this point I believe that any success the 2009 Broncos have on the field will be in spite of the front office and not due to it.
This is completely ridiculous. More than half the roster is new this season and there will be several new starters and rookies. The coaches that coach the team were put together by the FO as was the entire practice and training schedule. Saying that any success the team has will be in spite of the front office is like saying a car runs in spite of all the gas, oil, and mechanical parts inside. The team has very few Shanahan-era fingerprints on it left anymore. This also means it's failings can be pinned on the new FO as well.

Last edited by Kaylore; 06-17-2009 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:31 PM   #10
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We are seeing WHOLESALE changes with the way this franchise is being run by Bowlen. It's a progressive movement towards efficient business vs. a competitive one in a 32 team market.

We're in for some long years boys. Bowlen is passing this stupidity off as short term memory loss but he knows what the hell he is doing. He's trimming the budget down as much as he can. Damn the fans.
I agree with most all of your post Chris. However on motive...I am not sure this is part of a greater plan by Bowlen to economize as much as it just is a poor business model that he has deployed to replace the Shanny power vacuum.

If you are right, my opinion of Bowlen will remain high. Even if I hate his choice to economize as a fan. If, instead, it is due to his incompetence as a leader, my opinion of him just went into the crapper.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:34 PM   #11
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Just wondering ..... do Bowlen & McDaniels even speak the same language or realize that they work for the same organization?
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:37 PM   #12
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Worm, you beat me to it. I was actually responding to Popps in the "Bailey gets cut" thread and I posted a lot of crazy info about similarities between the acquisitions last year under Shanahan now this offseason with McDaniels.
Chris, you know I defended Shanahan for YEARS.

Of course we did a lot of things right under Shanahan.

The simple point was, if this was Shanahan bringing in some of these players, these same widow-types would be calling us Superbowl contenders.

People just want to be unhappy.... so they're going to be.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:39 PM   #13
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Of course. That is why I am calling them MY observations. It sounds like you are saying that you believe the roles\responsibilities are clearly defined. That communication is effective. That there is enough experience. That the strategic direction is steady. That there is complete confidence in star players with this organization.

If so...I am seeing something very different. Maybe I am being pessimistic but I see all the leading indicators of a failing team here from the cheap seats. I can only hope you are right and everything the media reports is inaccurate.
Wow! The sarcasm is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Maybe we are viewing this from diferent perspectives. There is too little concrete info make a true assement at this time. We've all been so accustomed to the weay Shanahan ran things. Now with the new regime, everyone is having to deal with the change that comes with it.

Not everyone on the team has bought into the new regime yet to be sure. But there aren't any mixed messages being sent by the new FO IMO. Those that want out have their own agenda.

At last count, only two people have asked to leave. That means there are 80+ other who seem to be okay with the new program.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:48 PM   #14
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Chris, you know I defended Shanahan for YEARS.

Of course we did a lot of things right under Shanahan.

The simple point was, if this was Shanahan bringing in some of these players, these same widow-types would be calling us Superbowl contenders.

People just want to be unhappy.... so they're going to be.
I think you speak the voice of McDaniels supporters.

However if you could substitute Shanahan for McDaniels making the exact same moves this offseason, people would be TEARING Mike apart just like we did last season with Bailey, Niko and Colbert.

The guys we have picked up are not that far off the path that Shanahan would have taken however some will now defend because of McNugget where they would have attacked before with Shanahan.

I think Taco said it best when he labelled it "inconsistencies".
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by worm View Post
At this point, I could care less about Cutler, Marshall, the Goodmans or any past or future disgruntled employee of the Broncos. For the purpose of this thread, what I care about is that the foundation of a stable front office is in place to allow the Broncos to be rebuilt and achieve success.

There are many reasons why corporations\teams succeed, however there is a much shorter list of reasons of why they fail. I am curious how ya’ll would rate the 2009 Broncos front office against five of these factors that dramatically hinder the success of a company\team

Here are five factors and my observations.

1) Unclearly defined roles and responsibilities

What is the current division of power in the front office? The buck might stop with Pat but are the lines clearly drawn between each job? Comments to the media do not seem to accurately reflect the roles that are being assumed. For instance, Bowlen is on record saying that ‘Xanders will oversee all of the team's player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations’. Yet in every case this off-season it appears to be Bowlen and McDaniels that are leading. Sometimes at different times for similar situations. If it is not understood by the media, I have a tough time believing that it is not equally hard for the entire organization.
Definitely ... huge, "unwavering" support for Jim Goodman, suddenly giving way to Goodman getting fired ... then after Jay-gate, Pat says Josh made "rookie mistakes" and that he'll be more "hands on" from this point forward.

No Pat ... it was YOUR job to keep the duties straight, YOUR jabo to keep you wunderkind coach where he belonged - on the field. It's not Josh's fault he was given too much responsibility.


Quote:
Originally Posted by worm
2) Poor communication
As a result of unclear roles and responsibilities, it appears that messages communicated from the front office to player reps and the media are conflicting or misunderstood. This front office seems incapable of communicating a consistent message.
This is true ... but you left out the simplest of all communications, Josh just calling Jay to head off all the nonsense. One call could've maybe stopped all this Cutler-gate:
"Jay? Coach McDaniels here ... listen, we've had a few calls here about whether you'd be available in a trade, a couple teams are interested. We passed of course, but there was some talk of us getting Matt Cassel. Just so you know - you might wanna be ready, there might be some blow-back you'll have to deal with, sorry about that. Hey, see you at mini-camp, okay? Bye for now."

Quote:
3) Lack of experience in leadership roles
McDaniels, Xanders and Bowlen are all acting in roles that are new to them. Two of them also being very young. McDaniels in particular has never had experience working in an unstable organizational structure ...
... or any management function for that matter.


Quote:
4) Quick shifts in strategic direction
This front office has set policy then had their actions immediately contradict it. Repeatedly. The Goodmans stay…then they go. Cutler stays…then he goes.
Bates too ... gotta wonder how all that went down. Was Pat too weak (inebriated?) to head off this power play?



Quote:
Originally Posted by worm
Blame each episode of drama this off-season on the player, the agent or another external source. However, until this front office is stabilized and acts as a cohesive unit, the only thing that will be consistant is that issues will continue to occur.

Accountability starts at the top. At this point I believe that any success the 2009 Broncos have on the field will be in spite of the front office and not due to it.
Try telling this to the Lil' Hoodie sycophants ...
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:59 PM   #16
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You should definitely forward this to Broncos headquarters
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:03 PM   #17
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I think you speak the voice of McDaniels supporters.

However if you could substitute Shanahan for McDaniels making the exact same moves this offseason, people would be TEARING Mike apart just like we did last season with Bailey, Niko and Colbert. .
Well, you heard me calling those signings a joke loud and clear last season.

But, I see a distinct difference between guys like Niko K. and Boss Bailey... and Westbrook, the best DE in the draft, etc.

There's also a scheme change and a philosophy change underway. We also hired a real DC, so there's reason to believe some benefit of the doubt might be given to some of these signings until we at least see them on the field.

I don't think we're saying anything all that different. McDaniels and Nolan will do some things wrong. It's just WAY too early for the silly bridge-jumping we've seen around here.

I've been watching this team for 30 years, so I feel like I have a bit of perspective on when to panic and when not to. This is clearly an exciting time to be a fan, whether some people choose to or not.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:07 PM   #18
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And Chris... Boss Bailey isn't anything like P. Hillis.

One was a highly paid bust with a rep of being soft and injury-prone, and not a very good player on top of it.

The other, a great lower-round value who was very productive.

Bailey is EXACTLY the kind of signing that killed Shanahan, whereas he did his better work with middle-lower draft picks, etc.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:21 PM   #19
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Yeah ..... that Maurice Clarett signing was classic, too.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:22 PM   #20
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Pat Bowlen the new Bill Bidwell? Fielding a low $ club to maximize tv $ coming into his pocket?
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:24 PM   #21
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Pat Bowlen the new Bill Bidwell? Fielding a low $ club to maximize tv $ coming into his pocket?
**** ..... he's not that smart. Keep polishing that turd - it belongs to a donkey now.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:31 PM   #22
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But, I see a distinct difference between guys like Niko K. and Boss Bailey... and Westbrook, the best DE in the draft, etc.
Do you mean Dawkins?
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Old 06-17-2009, 03:49 PM   #23
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I've edited your factors.

5) Lack of confidence in leadership by top performers
This is a problem with the players, not the leadership. Marshall wants money and Cutler is a whining drunk. That the other players have fallen in line and are excited about this season tells me all I need to.



This is completely ridiculous. More than half the roster is new this season and there will be several new starters and rookies. The coaches that coach the team were put together by the FO as was the entire practice and training schedule. Saying that any success the team has will be in spite of the front office is like saying a car runs in spite of all the gas, oil, and mechanical parts inside. The team has very few Shanahan-era fingerprints on it left anymore. This also means it's failings can be pinned on the new FO as well.
Yes, well about 1/4 of the roster are McD guys, and the rest of the team other than Cutler, Marshall, and Champ. No GM in the right mind would want them, so they are content being a Broncos. So your argument here is not valid. Other than that, both of you had legit points.
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Old 06-17-2009, 04:20 PM   #24
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For instance, Bowlen is on record saying that ‘Xanders will oversee all of the team's player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations’. Yet in every case this off-season it appears to be Bowlen and McDaniels that are leading.
The key word is 'appears'. We really don't know who's leading and what role McD and/or Xanders has played thus far. Without full knowledge of this, judgment cannot be made.


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As a result of unclear roles and responsibilities, it appears that messages communicated from the front office to player reps and the media are conflicting or misunderstood. This front office seems incapable of communicating a consistent message.
We just showed that the perception of unclear roles does not necessarily mean this is so. Being that you've put communication as a necessary product of roles, and roles cannot be judged due to lack of information, you cannot credibly judge communication either.


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McDaniels, Xanders and Bowlen are all acting in roles that are new to them. Two of them also being very young. McDaniels in particular has never had experience working in an unstable organizational structure.
Xanders has 14 previous years in player personnel, coaching and football operations in Atlanta, which has never been the bastion of stability--can you say Bobby Petrino? Has he ever been a GM? No. Neither had Joe Dumars, Ken Holland, Ozzie Newsome, etc. In short, everybody had to start with 'no experience'. Bowlen's role is not new. He had this role when he hired Wade Phillips and Mike Shanahan--he was owner then, just like now. McD has never been a head coach, but again, guys like Gruden, Dungy, Wisenhunt, et al never had either and still found success.

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This front office has set policy then had their actions immediately contradict it. Repeatedly.
This is not necessarily a reflection of the organization's effectiveness. Situations change. People change. What would be ineffective is refusing to alter one's plans after changes have hit you square in the nuggets.


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Both Cutler and Marshall have requested a change of scenery. You can lay it on the doorstep of the agent or the player but ultimately the more this happens the more you have to look inward at the organization.
Cutler and Marshall aside, who has asked for a change? You have 78 players who have not asked for this, and 2 that have. The fact that they're big play stars makes them stick out, to be sure. But an organization must establish an identity--a character that conveys to the league, 'this is Bronco football'. We did it during the Super Bowl years and Shanahan got to walk into a plum job. McD has walked into a dungeon with bad players, bad atttitudes, and bad results. The organization shouldn't have to apologize for establishing its own culture. Players that cannot or will not buy into this culture should be cut loose, plain and simple. They are not Denver Broncos if they will not play Denver Bronco football, IMO. And Denver Broncos football has changed under McD.
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Old 06-17-2009, 04:26 PM   #25
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Do you mean Dawkins?


Yea. Funny.
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