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Old 06-16-2009, 08:45 AM   #1
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The only way you outplay your contract is by completing the terms required. IE years. Marshall has not outplayed his contract. He will have after this season.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:47 AM   #2
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:49 AM   #3
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The only way you outplay your contract is by completing the terms required. IE years. Marshall has not outplayed his contract. He will have after this season.
And this is why you bag groceries at King Soopers and are not employed in a Front Office of a professional sports team.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:50 AM   #4
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:04 AM   #5
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I disagree. I think if a player's production exceeds his contract he should hold out and get more money. He risks his well-being every time he plays.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:09 AM   #6
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I disagree. I think if a player's production exceeds his contract he should hold out and get more money. He risks his well-being every time he plays.
I completely agree....

However, said player needs make sure he/she can be on the field to help the team and validate his worth. Possible suspensions effect any type of deal....and not being at OTAs can also effect his production in this coming year
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:15 AM   #7
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And this is why you bag groceries at King Soopers and are not employed in a Front Office of a professional sports team.
Nice, attack the person. Good Shot. I am as successful as any other poster on here however.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:15 AM   #8
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I completely agree with Kaylore, however I also believe BMarsh has a responsibility to be in Camp for the Rookies, and to be a better example if he wants more Money-there are better ways to handle this (it's called 'Class'), and putting it out in the Media isn't one of them-
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:16 AM   #9
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I disagree. I think if a player's production exceeds his contract he should hold out and get more money. He risks his well-being every time he plays.
I disagree. Just because those type's get more pub does not mean they are more successful at getting paid. You catch flies with honey not vinegar.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:19 AM   #10
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The only way you outplay your contract is by completing the terms required. IE years.
How on Earth you ever came to this conclusion I'll never know. If your sole focus is "years", then wouldn't it make sense that the following would be true:

1. Underplaying your contract = not fulfilling every year of the contract.
2. Playing your contract = fulfilling every year....no more, no less.
3. Outplaying your contract = playing beyond the years specified in the contract.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:25 AM   #11
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How on Earth you ever came to this conclusion I'll never know. If your sole focus is "years", then wouldn't it make sense that the following would be true:

1. Underplaying your contract = not fulfilling every year of the contract.
2. Playing your contract = fulfilling every year....no more, no less.
3. Outplaying your contract = playing beyond the years specified in the contract.
Why Yes Beantown that is correct.

1. Try retiring or going to prison with time left on your contract. The team goes back and tries to get your signing bonus. Examples. Barry Sanders, Mike Vick

2. When you fulfill your contract it is then ended. You can not play past it because it no longer exsists.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:32 AM   #12
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I think if a player's production exceeds his contract he should hold out and get more money. He risks his well-being every time he plays.
Agree, but Brandon Marshall is currently in no position to do so because of his health issues and, even more so, his legal issues. As I've stated numerous times the last couple of days, I agree that he deserves a new deal but only after those issues have been resolved. His timing is poor and he has very little leverage.

Marshall Doesn’t Have Much Leverage
Posted by Mike Florio on June 15, 2009, 11:02 p.m. EDT

As rumors fly that Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall will continue to push for a trade, there are a couple of key points that he needs to keep in mind.

First, he’s not a quarterback. Though Jay Cutler was able to talk (or, more accurately, not talk) his way out of town, the Broncos might be more willing to tolerate a wideout who doesn’t want to be there.

Second, Marshall has no leverage.

None.

He’s signed through 2009. And while the financial penalties arising from his decision to bail on a mandatory minicamp are manageable, the consequences of a training-camp holdout would be more dire — starting at more than $90,000 for the first day and increasing at roughly $17,000 per day thereafter.

And then there’s the requirement that a player under contract report 30 days before the start of the regular season or forfeit a year of accrued service. This would prevent Marshall from becoming an unrestricted free agent in 2010, since he would have only three years, not four. (Of course, Marshall also won’t be an unrestricted free agent if he shows up and if there’s no CBA extension by next March. Still, that factor falls beyond his control; blowing his shot at unrestricted free agency due to a training-camp holdout would be on Marshall, and/or his agent.)

So even though Marshall might huff and/or puff about wanting out, he might blow his own house down if he tries to force the team’s hand by staying away from training camp.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...much-leverage/
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:36 AM   #13
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Why Yes Beantown that is correct.

1. Try retiring or going to prison with time left on your contract. The team goes back and tries to get your signing bonus. Examples. Barry Sanders, Mike Vick

2. When you fulfill your contract it is then ended. You can not play past it because it no longer exsists.
So now you just contradicted yourself. In the first post, you said it was possible to outplay your contract. Now you are saying you can't. Odd.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:41 AM   #14
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So now you just contradicted yourself. In the first post, you said it was possible to outplay your contract. Now you are saying you can't. Odd.
Reading comprehension not what it used to be. OutPlay Contract= on this board. Play beyond what money is being received.

Outplay Contract=In Reality. Play beyond the period set in the contract. Once that period is fulfilled you have outplayed the contract. And begin a new one. To my knowledge you can not play in the NFL with out a contract.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:56 AM   #15
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Reading comprehension not what it used to be.
Neither is writing, apparently. Go back and read your posts again. I'm simply pointing out what you wrote without any interpretation or altering of words.

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OutPlay Contract= on this board. Play beyond what money is being received.

Outplay Contract=In Reality. Play beyond the period set in the contract. Once that period is fulfilled you have outplayed the contract. And begin a new one. To my knowledge you can not play in the NFL with out a contract.
So, if I looked around, I would not find a single instance of an owner, GM or coach saying a player outplayed their contract before it expired?
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:59 AM   #16
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The only way you outplay your contract is by completing the terms required. IE years. Marshall has not outplayed his contract. He will have after this season.
I agree. If a contractor submitted a bid that you accepted and was hired for your house and did a good job on half then refused to finish on the grounds that he did a better job then you expected and is retiring soon so he needs to make more money now, I wonder how many on here would support him.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:01 AM   #17
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I disagree. I think if a player's production exceeds his contract he should hold out and get more money. He risks his well-being every time he plays.
i agree completely. a player should be paid based on what he is worth. and Marshall is the most important part of the receiving corps. without him drawing double teams, everyone elses numbers will go down, without him on the field more attention will be paid to the running game and as a result it will suffer. he is very important to the team and because of that, deserves more money.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:05 AM   #18
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I agree. If a contractor submitted a bid that you accepted and was hired for your house and did a good job on half then refused to finish on the grounds that he did a better job then you expected and is retiring soon so he needs to make more money now, I wonder how many on here would support him.
Is it standard in that arena (general contracting) for a homeowner to pay more money for better than expected work? Nope. Can a homeowner simply tell the contractor to go home and not pay him for the rest of his work if he doesn't want to....and NOT expect to be sued? Nope.

Is it common and even expected in the NFL common for teams to renegotiate with their top performers before their current contract expires? You bet. Can the team simply cut and stop paying said contract player before their current contract expires with no repurcussions? You bet.

Bad analogy.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:07 AM   #19
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I completely agree with Kaylore, however I also believe BMarsh has a responsibility to be in Camp for the Rookies, and to be a better example if he wants more Money-there are better ways to handle this (it's called 'Class'), and putting it out in the Media isn't one of them-
I haven't seen BMarsh on TV stating he's holding out or wants to be traded. It's somebody in Bowlens office who put it out in the media
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:14 AM   #20
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i agree completely. a player should be paid based on what he is worth. and Marshall is the most important part of the receiving corps. without him drawing double teams, everyone elses numbers will go down, without him on the field more attention will be paid to the running game and as a result it will suffer. he is very important to the team and because of that, deserves more money.
The problem is that you can't tell for sure what he is worth next year and however many years after that. If he gets suspended or injured next season he will be paid far more then he is worth that season. Besides, if everyone is paid what they are worth, wouldn't Clady have a decent case for making as much as Marshall? Hillis would need a raise, Harris, Kuper, and the cap gets closer and closer.
its a fact of life in the salary cap era that either you have little talent on your team, or some of your talent is underpaid temporarily, but you can't have a stocked team that has everyone paid at market level.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:20 AM   #21
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Neither is writing, apparently. Go back and read your posts again. I'm simply pointing out what you wrote without any interpretation or altering of words.



So, if I looked around, I would not find a single instance of an owner, GM or coach saying a player outplayed their contract before it expired?
I don't care what people either the player or the GM say about the contract. I am only taking the side of the contract. It is what it is. Marshall's is a Contract for a period of time specifying payment for that time period. It can be broken by one side only.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:29 AM   #22
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i agree completely. a player should be paid based on what he is worth. and Marshall is the most important part of the receiving corps. without him drawing double teams, everyone elses numbers will go down, without him on the field more attention will be paid to the running game and as a result it will suffer. he is very important to the team and because of that, deserves more money.
His "worth" and what he "deserves" aren't the issues. The issues are his current injury and legal situations. You don't give him more $ until those are resolved. This is very simple. If he's not on the field he's not worth very much. I can't explain this any more simply or succinctly.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:38 AM   #23
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Is it standard in that arena (general contracting) for a homeowner to pay more money for better than expected work? Nope. Can a homeowner simply tell the contractor to go home and not pay him for the rest of his work if he doesn't want to....and NOT expect to be sued? Nope.

Is it common and even expected in the NFL common for teams to renegotiate with their top performers before their current contract expires? You bet. Can the team simply cut and stop paying said contract player before their current contract expires with no repurcussions? You bet.

Bad analogy.
Teams and homeowners renegotiate when it is to their benefit and don't when it is to their benefit. As far as teams cutting players who are good performers but cost too much, yes the analogy breaks down there, but it doesn't change the point the analogy made. Players and agents are not stupid and price the contracts and specifically the signing bonuses according to the teams having this ability. Its a risk/reward situation for players, and one the players union agreed to for good reason.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:41 AM   #24
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I completely agree....

However, said player needs make sure he/she can be on the field to help the team and validate his worth. Possible suspensions effect any type of deal....and not being at OTAs can also effect his production in this coming year
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I completely agree with Kaylore, however I also believe BMarsh has a responsibility to be in Camp for the Rookies, and to be a better example if he wants more Money-there are better ways to handle this (it's called 'Class'), and putting it out in the Media isn't one of them-
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Agree, but Brandon Marshall is currently in no position to do so because of his health issues and, even more so, his legal issues. As I've stated numerous times the last couple of days, I agree that he deserves a new deal but only after those issues have been resolved. His timing is poor and he has very little leverage.

Marshall Doesn’t Have Much Leverage
All three of you are arguing about Marshall's leverage. I never disputed he has issues there. I'm just speaking to this ridiculous idea that the only way to "outplay" your contract is to count years. The organization can cut a player any time and isn't required to pay the years left on their contract. That completely invalidates the point. Players have a skill and the more productive you are the more value that skill has. You should do whatever you need to to get fair value for the skill you provide when your payment does not equal your value.

That doesn't mean I think Marshall's justified and it doesn't mean I think he can win this. I was speaking to Rugbythug's original point.

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I disagree. Just because those type's get more pub does not mean they are more successful at getting paid. You catch flies with honey not vinegar.
Your analogy doesn't make any sense in this instance. Marshall isn't trying to lure a variety of suitors in or "catch flies" as it were. He's under contract and wants to get paid for what his worth is. He's probably concerned about his injury and the new CBA and believes he can force the issue. That process of getting more money is in no way like trying catch flies or any other kind of insect.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:43 AM   #25
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Why Yes Beantown that is correct.

1. Try retiring or going to prison with time left on your contract. The team goes back and tries to get your signing bonus. Examples. Barry Sanders, Mike Vick

2. When you fulfill your contract it is then ended. You can not play past it because it no longer exsists.
I wonder if the Raiders feel the same way about that, I bet they think that Jamarcus is not really living up to his contract, but I am just guessing.
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