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Old 06-08-2009, 03:55 AM   #1
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There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:20 AM   #2
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We haven't had such bad QBs since Steve DeBerg and Mark Hermann in 1982.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:25 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by BroncoBuff-#1 Lakers Fan View Post
We haven't had such bad QBs since Steve DeBerg and Mark Hermann in 1982.
The more I think about the actual talent level we're approaching the season with, the more mind=blown I get.

One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...

The other guy was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese again, and even after a "break out" season last year, his OC has publicly stated they were going to draft a new QB and cut him anyways.

Jesus Christ.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.
Here is what I am hoping for... Orton can be an effective QB as long as you don't ask him to throw the ball deep with any type of consistency.

McD runs the hell at of screens. Bubble, Smoke, Zip, TE, WR, H-Back, RB, FB, "Yo Mamma" Screen... he's got them all in his playbook.

We also have some personnel that should quite good at running the screens. Considering our OLine is still one of the most athletic in the league, you have a pair of Tackles that can get out and lead on screens.

You also have the best blocking TE in the league in DG and another impressive, but untested blocker at the position in Quinn. Both have decent hands and the third (Scheff) has been used on screens in the past as well, so the TE screen is also available.

Royal and Marshall are both exceptional after the catch runners. Marshall may be top 3 in the league in that regard. Marshall is also an exceptional blocker.

Finally, you have a handful of backs that can really catch the ball well as well as block. Hillis, Moreno, Jordan, and Buckhalter are all very good in the receiving department. Hillis could prove to have the best hands on the team, he is so natural catching the ball.


I could easily argue that Orton's limitations were as much his supporting cast as they were his own. Playing from the Shotgun with more time to diagnose the field b/c of a superior OL and a skill position players as good or better than those in Chicago should lead to a lot of success.

I hate to put a jinx on him, but I would guess that Orton will throw for 3500 yards and 25 TDs. Good numbers from the QB position, but not on par with what a franchise type QB would do with this supporting cast. I think a QB like Cutler would go for 4500 and 35 TDs so I realize Orton's limitations.

The best news that I can see in all of this. If the current QBs tank and Brandstater (or whatever his name is) doesn't look like he has a future, next year's QB class could be the best in several years. When there is a possibility that a guy like Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Jevon Snead, and/or Sam Bradford is available in round two, you have to like the draft knowing you're in need of a QB.
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:15 AM   #5
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One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...
Jesus Christ.
Nope. Wrong on all counts. Chris Simms has actually never been benched, in the NFL anyway. Griese won the starting job in 2005, but when he went down in Week 6, Simms came in and started the rest of the way that season, played pretty well - showed flashes of real field general leadeship I thought.

The next year, Simms actually beat out Gradkowski, Rattay and McNown for the starting job, but he didn't play that well, and went down in Week 3 with the spleen.

I suppose in 2004 when Brad Johnson came back from injury and reclaimed his job from Simms - that was kinda like a benching, but not really, the job was Johnson's to begin with. And I suppose when Gruden PASSED OVER Simms for Jeff Garcia while they waited for Chris's mid-season return from the spleen in 2007, that was a tiny bit like a benching, but not really. Besides, Garcia played great, and it's pretty well accepted that Gruden was a dick to Simms anyway.

I am more concerned that Simms could not beat out Kerry Collins last year in Tennessee
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.
That might just be true, but its a little over the top in how much worse. Simms got into Gruden's dog house, he never was benched until he was hurt and could not overtake Garcia. That was not a solid decision as much as an emotional one.

Orton was never a good fit in CHI. However, he was a better QB than Rex who was Jake Plummeresque starting for CHI. Remember, the Bears actually went to a SB with Rex pulling his best Plummer impersonation in 2006. So, right after that he gets replaced by Orton because of injury and CHI starts Winning more games while he learns on the job and with Crap at WR. When Rex came back, CHI faltered even more and lost with Rex.

All In All, to expect big numbers from them is a real reach. To expect them to play well within the new system is not. Brady won SB's with NE being a middle numbers QB. The year he set all kinds of records they lost the SB. So, while the QB is easily the most important position on the team as it relates to wins, both these guys can win with this offense.

What continues to be the real issue to me, is can they stop anyone in the NFL with this Defense. No one really knows yet, but the games will certainly be ugly if the defense can not stop the run with their schedule this year. They are not built to play from behind on offense or defense, but to still be front runners. Hell, even Cutler struggled mightily in the games they got down big early last year (NE, OAK, @ KC, and @ CAR). So, while the QB is still a major question mark as they go into the season, the defense is the most glaring question to me.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:22 AM   #7
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Is there anyone here that thinks effective use of "check downs" to a good pass-catching RB wouldn't have won us a few games over the past couple years?

We just haven't had that as part of the game plan lately, and it pissed me off.

Instead, we have had a tremendously gifted gunslinger staring down receivers that were 20-40 yards deep in double coverage waiting for a two yard window (that he could actually hit). It was extremely exciting football, it just wasn't smart football.

We are looking for posession football now. Keep getting first downs. Trust the run game (and bolster it with more talent). I like this plan.

Let the whole Offense do their job, don't just count on the QB. That way, if the QB gets rattled, the offense doesn't fall apart (like the past couple years).
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:45 AM   #8
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To go from the best long term QB situation in the NFL to the worst without anything to really show for it really sucks.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:47 AM   #9
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You don't win with a QB, you win with an offense. John Elway is the perfect example of this. He carried a team to the Super Bowl a few times but was never able to sniff a trophy until he had a more complete unit surrounding him. I think we'll be better off with a strong system and players who can play within it than we were relying on an inconsistent QB to win games for us.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:49 AM   #10
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To go from the best long term QB situation in the NFL...
You're making quite an assumption there. How was our "long term QB situation" necessarily any better than San Diego's, Atlanta's, Baltimore's, etc.? You can certainly make arguments on the topic but that doesn't make you right.
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:01 AM   #11
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You don't win with a QB, you win with an offense. John Elway is the perfect example of this. He carried a team to the Super Bowl a few times but was never able to sniff a trophy until he had a more complete unit surrounding him. I think we'll be better off with a strong system and players who can play within it than we were relying on an inconsistent QB to win games for us.

True. Who here was really comfortable with our RBs the past couple of years? Or, who here was comfortable with how casully the RB position was treated the past couple of years? The whole approach to putting some scrub in and watch him get 1200 yards flaunted Shanahans genius more than it helped the team. We never maximized our strength with this approach (ie our running game). We won two SBs due largely to an all time great running game. The past couple of years were frustrating in this regard. I liked some of the guys we had like Hillis, but it was definitely upgradeable.

I dont like McDaniels offense but hopefully we run more and it would seem that we will be doing so.
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:14 AM   #12
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We won two SBs due largely to an all time great running game.
Yep. And to add to this even more, Elway was still an effective QB but was well past his prime when we won those Super Bowls.

Interesting how it works when you think about it. Rich Gannon was a journeyman QB but rember how good he looked in 2002 playing in a great system that fit his talents? Kurt Warner was considered washed up 5 years ago while failing with the NYG but he looked okay last season with strong talent and a good system, didn't he?

Neither Orton nor Simms are likely to be going to the Pro Bowl any time soon. But both should look better than they ever have in their pro careers because they are surrounded by good talent and will be playing in a QB friendly system.

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Old 06-08-2009, 07:15 AM   #13
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True. Who here was really comfortable with our RBs the past couple of years? Or, who here was comfortable with how casully the RB position was treated the past couple of years? The whole approach to putting some scrub in and watch him get 1200 yards flaunted Shanahans genius more than it helped the team. We never maximized our strength with this approach (ie our running game). We won two SBs due largely to an all time great running game. The past couple of years were frustrating in this regard. I liked some of the guys we had like Hillis, but it was definitely upgradeable.

I dont like McDaniels offense but hopefully we run more and it would seem that we will be doing so.
What's wrong with his offense?
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:09 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
The more I think about the actual talent level we're approaching the season with, the more mind=blown I get.

One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...

The other guy was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese again, and even after a "break out" season last year, his OC has publicly stated they were going to draft a new QB and cut him anyways.

Jesus Christ.
He had nothing to do with it.

Griese, Grossman, Gradkowski and Plummer...sounds like an accounting firm.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:22 AM   #15
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Our Current Qb Situation Sucks!!!!!
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:34 AM   #16
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Time will tell how bad our QB situation really is. At the end of the day, if we get the Wins, we have to be happy. Orton may not be the pretty, flashy type, but if he converts 3rd downs, keeps turn-over’s down, and moves the ball, that is all that matters. I think Orton has shown the ability in college to run the spread with success; we are going to be pleasantly surprised at how well he does.


We have one of the best o-lines, best WR tandem, and underrated TE's. If we can get solid play from Moreno,Hillis and CO. I really think Orton just acts as a facilitator and we are a more efficient and higher scoring offense then last year.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:46 AM   #17
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Can one hope that McDaniels just has a master plan to win with a crappy QB?
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:50 AM   #18
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Can one hope that McDaniels just has a master plan to win with a crappy QB?
We shall see....I don't think Orton is crappy..just more like scrappy..
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:01 AM   #19
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actually had a dream last week Plummer came back and joined the broncos
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #20
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Is Cutler far superior to Matt Cassel? I say yes. Yet Cassel managed to win 11 games last year. In a tougher division. In McDaniels' system.

Hmmmm.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:12 AM   #21
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these guys are just as good as Plummer and the G-boy......and that's not saying much.

like Shanny, Mc****face is focussing on the running game

Last edited by bronco militia; 06-08-2009 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:13 AM   #22
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As has been said, the QB situation isn't our problem.

If we can field a middle of the road defense then our QB's will be fine. They're not superstars, but whoever wins the battle will be a competent QB who'll put up pretty decent numbers with the offense around them.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:15 AM   #23
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As has been said, the QB situation isn't our problem.

.

it will be when teams are able to stop the running game.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:25 AM   #24
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it will be when teams are able to stop the running game.
You can't cover the likes of Marshall and Royal one on one. Teams will have to respect that and leave both safeties back more often than not. The running game should be fine.

I know some of the hysterics on here seem to think we've got 2 blind guys with no arms battling it out to be the starting QB, but it's just not the case.

The offense will be in the top half of the NFL, you can pretty much take that to the bank.

The defense is the concern, no doubt about it.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:13 AM   #25
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You can't cover the likes of Marshall and Royal one on one. Teams will have to respect that and leave both safeties back more often than not. The running game should be fine.

I know some of the hysterics on here seem to think we've got 2 blind guys with no arms battling it out to be the starting QB, but it's just not the case.

The offense will be in the top half of the NFL, you can pretty much take that to the bank.

The defense is the concern, no doubt about it.
I don't agree with any of that....1999-2006 the broncos got by with guys like orton and simms when thy had Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, eddy Mac and a very solid running game....sure some of the parts were missing from one year to the next.




there's no doubt in my mind that QB will be a priority next offseason
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