The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2009, 09:27 AM   #1
kamakazi_kal
......
 
kamakazi_kal's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,226

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mayhem Miller
Default broncos moves easy to question - clayton.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=4220784

"If Orton doesn't start after the Broncos gave up Cutler to get him, that's the first major demerit. Mike Shanahan was fired because of his decisions as a general manager, not his play calling. I'm still looking for the feeling that they have a plan."


but ahh .... we got orton ....stupid clayton. (cherrypicking at it's finest)

Last edited by kamakazi_kal; 06-01-2009 at 09:30 AM..
kamakazi_kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-01-2009, 09:31 AM   #2
SoDak Bronco
Lace em' up and lets go!!
 
SoDak Bronco's Avatar
 
Von Miller aka QB Killa

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,226

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Robert Ayers
Default

off-season sucks even for tales from the crypt clayton
SoDak Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:34 AM   #3
BMarsh615
Ring of Famer
 
21ís No Champ

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,087

Adopt-a-Bronco:
# 15
Default

Yeah, we traded Cutler straight up for Kyle Orton.

I hope Clayton and Mort both get canned once Schefter takes over.
BMarsh615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:36 AM   #4
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMarsh615 View Post
Yeah, we traded Cutler straight up for Kyle Orton.

I hope Clayton and Mort both get canned once Schefter takes over.
No....but his point is valid.

We passed up on better trade offers for Cutler because McDaniels wanted Kyle Orton.
SouthStndJunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:39 AM   #5
BMarsh615
Ring of Famer
 
21ís No Champ

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,087

Adopt-a-Bronco:
# 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie View Post
No....but his point is valid.

We passed up on better trade offers for Cutler because McDaniels wanted Kyle Orton.
I don't know that we got offered something better. McDaniels said he wanted 2 first round picks. We pretty much chose Kyle Orton over Jason Campbell, Kellen Clemens, and whoever Tampa Bay had.
BMarsh615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:40 AM   #6
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 19,867

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

He definitely has a point, but this assumes that the Broncos were always hellbent on trading Cutler, which I dont think is the case. I sincerely believe Cutler would still be a bronco if he just called Bowlen back. To say that they don't have a plan is still a little dramatic.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:41 AM   #7
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 19,867

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMarsh615 View Post
I don't know that we got offered something better. McDaniels said he wanted 2 first round picks. We pretty much chose Kyle Orton over Jason Campbell, Kellen Clemens, and whoever Tampa Bay had.
Yeah, but the washington offer was better in that they were higher picks.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:43 AM   #8
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,223

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Yeah, but the washington offer was better in that they were higher picks.
Just means they would've paid more money for the same players most likely.
Beantown Bronco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:50 AM   #9
SoDak Bronco
Lace em' up and lets go!!
 
SoDak Bronco's Avatar
 
Von Miller aka QB Killa

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,226

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Robert Ayers
Default

We are talking about May Mini-Camp..It doesn't mean Simms is going to win the job, Clayton is a dbag.
SoDak Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:52 AM   #10
BroncoInSkinland
Lurker
 
BroncoInSkinland's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,024

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Current D-line
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
He definitely has a point, but this assumes that the Broncos were always hellbent on trading Cutler, which I dont think is the case. I sincerely believe Cutler would still be a bronco if he just called Bowlen back. To say that they don't have a plan is still a little dramatic.
I agree, I think McDaniels definately has a plan. The number of FA RB's combined with the Moreno pick, and retaining Turner and Dennison lead me to believe not only does he want to employ the ZBS, but he wants to make it the focus of the offense, or at least a very important part.

The FA signings plus drafting heavy at both S and CB indicates he (or by proxy Nolan through him) believe that the backfield was a major part of the defenses problem last year, and that they intended to right that part of the ship first on the defensive side.

At QB he may not have his finalized plan, but with two ball control game managers fighting for the position he at the very least has an idea of what he wants, if not the final solution. (edited addition: Looking at other QB's he was rumored to be interested in, Campbell, Quinn, Cassle, it quickly becomes obvious he is looking for a ball protection QB, not a gunslinger - probably one of the major stumbling blocks in the Cutler situation. He definately has a plan, maybe not executed exactly as he wanted, but it is there.)

High character FA's, draftees, and UDFA's indicate attitude is more important to him than raw physical ability at least at this phase.

Bringing in players familiar with the scheme at NE indicate he will be incorporating some of that system as well, and that he has an organized thought process on how to implement this quickly and efficiently.

To say that McDaniels doesn't have a plan is ludicrous. To not agree with some (or many) elements of that plan is a different story.

Last edited by BroncoInSkinland; 06-01-2009 at 09:56 AM..
BroncoInSkinland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:03 AM   #11
dbfan21
Floridian living in KS
 
dbfan21's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wichita
Posts: 2,179

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Just means they would've paid more money for the same players most likely.
Excellent point there.

The bottom line is that, to the average fan, Clayton makes the Broncos look stupid. Straight-up trade (Cutler for Orton) as opposed of getting two firsts and a third in addition to the QB swap.

What he didn't talk about is how we have upgraded our running game, improved upon our TE and WR situation, added veteran leadership and talent on the defensive side of the ball...but most of all, brought in high-character, hard-working football players to compete for a roster spot.

I am starting to sip the McDaniels Kool Aid some because I like the intensity and pace he sets in practice, the importance he places on finding quality guys and his mindset on "Team First"...as opposed to "Me First".
dbfan21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:06 AM   #12
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 19,867

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Just means they would've paid more money for the same players most likely.
Good point...the first round picks probably would have been the same.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Just means they would've paid more money for the same players most likely.
The point is that Kyle Orton was the player that sealed the deal and separated itself from the others.

If Washington would have had Kyle Orton and offered the same deal, then Denver would have accepted that deal.

Denver would have liked to have picked back to back at 12 and 13 (the Skins pick).

You act as if Denver turned down the Redskins because their draft picks were too high.
SouthStndJunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:34 AM   #14
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,280

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie View Post
No....but his point is valid.

We passed up on better trade offers for Cutler because McDaniels wanted Kyle Orton.
and what were those offers exactly?

The only other team that the Post said had 2 1sts on the table was the Skins, and they along with the Jets and Bucs could offer nothing more than draft choices. Cleveland was in it, but they backed out because they didn't want to deal with Cutler's perceived pouty nature and it's never been reported (AFAIK) what their offer was exactly.

McDaniels wanted either Orton or Quinn.
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:35 AM   #15
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,223

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie View Post
You act as if Denver turned down the Redskins because their draft picks were too high.
Nope. I think you're misinterpreting my post or taking it out of context.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have possibly preferred securing the higher picks before the draft. I'm saying that, most likely, they still would've probably picked the same guys at 12 and 13 that they would've at 12 and 18. If you read the post draft quotes again, then it is a logical conclusion to make.....unless you thing McDaniels is a liar. According to him, they got "the guys they had targeted" all along.
Beantown Bronco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:40 AM   #16
BroncoInSkinland
Lurker
 
BroncoInSkinland's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,024

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Current D-line
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
and what were those offers exactly?

The only other team that the Post said had 2 1sts on the table was the Skins, and they along with the Jets and Bucs could offer nothing more than draft choices. Cleveland was in it, but they backed out because they didn't want to deal with Cutler's perceived pouty nature and it's never been reported (AFAIK) what their offer was exactly.

McDaniels wanted either Orton or Quinn.
Unsubstantiated rumors of Quinn, Shaun Rogers, and a single first round pick for Cutler plagued the Browns board I am registered on. Nothing at all solid behind that though, and other rumors (with us giving a pick in addition to Cutler for Quinn and Rogers) were there as well, just none as frequent.
BroncoInSkinland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:41 AM   #17
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,467

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Clayton not like Broncos offseason.


DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:42 AM   #18
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Nope. I think you're misinterpreting my post or taking it out of context.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have possibly preferred securing the higher picks before the draft. I'm saying that, most likely, they still would've probably picked the same guys at 12 and 13 that they would've at 12 and 18. If you read the post draft quotes again, then it is a logical conclusion to make.....unless you thing McDaniels is a liar. According to him, they got "the guys they had targeted" all along.
It's interesting, but I'm not sure it flies. Cleveland showed you could move down the draft board all day in this past weak draft class. 13 to 17 or 18 gives Denver another late 2nd/early 3rd in which case, you have ammo to move up in the 2nd for Smith without blowing next years pick, or you just use that extra pick on Quinn.
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 10:43 AM   #19
Dudeskey
Ring of Famer
 
Dudeskey's Avatar
 
This space for rent

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 4,310
Default

Another prognosticator ejaculating prematurely? Imagine my shock...™
Dudeskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:16 AM   #20
lostknight
In The Arena
 
lostknight's Avatar
 
ohwaitwtf

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,336

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tim Tebow
Default

Dar Fuhrer must not be questioned. He has a plan, and only he can guide the Broncos to the Superbowl.

Until McDaniels's wins games, he is what he is - a rookie head coach that has made many many decisions that make everyone in the league scratch their head wondering WTF the Broncos are doing.
lostknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:28 AM   #21
Pseudofool
Cynic at Large
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Kingdom of Solipsism
Posts: 2,896

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Me?
Default

If Simms comes in and plays much better than anyone expected, how is that a strike against McD? The assumption is that it's Orton's bad play that leads to Simms starting. When clearly it would be Simms good play that would lead to him starting.

Clayton has a vested interest in McD not working out for the Broncos, as this has been his meme all offseason--he'll ride it out until the Broncos wins shut him up.
Pseudofool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:30 AM   #22
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
and what were those offers exactly?

The only other team that the Post said had 2 1sts on the table was the Skins, and they along with the Jets and Bucs could offer nothing more than draft choices. Cleveland was in it, but they backed out because they didn't want to deal with Cutler's perceived pouty nature and it's never been reported (AFAIK) what their offer was exactly.

McDaniels wanted either Orton or Quinn.
I don't know the specifics....I know the Skins offer was on par with Chicago's.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ade/index.html

The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first-round draft picks and a quarterback.

But as the deal went down, McDaniels, who watched every offensive snap of more than 10 Bears games with Orton playing, got more and more impressed with Orton's arm, his decision-making and his ability to extend plays when the pocket broke down. You can think and I can think it's crazy he didn't like Campbell -- who got Washington off to a 6-2 start last year -- more than he liked Orton, but it's the unvarnished truth. McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton.

Last edited by SouthStndJunkie; 06-01-2009 at 11:35 AM..
SouthStndJunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 11:34 AM   #23
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Nope. I think you're misinterpreting my post or taking it out of context.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have possibly preferred securing the higher picks before the draft. I'm saying that, most likely, they still would've probably picked the same guys at 12 and 13 that they would've at 12 and 18. If you read the post draft quotes again, then it is a logical conclusion to make.....unless you thing McDaniels is a liar. According to him, they got "the guys they had targeted" all along.
Coaches/GMs usually do not admit they did not get a guy they had targeted in the draft.

They want you to think they are brilliant and everything went according to their plan.
SouthStndJunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 12:13 PM   #24
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,280

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInSkinland View Post
Unsubstantiated rumors of Quinn, Shaun Rogers, and a single first round pick for Cutler plagued the Browns board I am registered on. Nothing at all solid behind that though, and other rumors (with us giving a pick in addition to Cutler for Quinn and Rogers) were there as well, just none as frequent.
I could care less what rumors a message board came up with, I'm talking about real reported rumors.

Their "rumors" lose any credibility when they think Rogers and Quinn would require Cutler +.

Last edited by Hercules Rockefeller; 06-01-2009 at 12:17 PM..
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 12:16 PM   #25
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,280

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie View Post
I don't know the specifics....I know the Skins offer was on par with Chicago's.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ade/index.html

The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first-round draft picks and a quarterback.

But as the deal went down, McDaniels, who watched every offensive snap of more than 10 Bears games with Orton playing, got more and more impressed with Orton's arm, his decision-making and his ability to extend plays when the pocket broke down. You can think and I can think it's crazy he didn't like Campbell -- who got Washington off to a 6-2 start last year -- more than he liked Orton, but it's the unvarnished truth. McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton.
No one wanted Campbell and McCown blows. Denver didn't, and the Skins couldn't find anyone they could flip him to for a draft pick either. So no, the Skins offer was not on par with the Bears. King didn't seem to realize that when he wrote this way back when, Denver wasn't the only team that didn't want him.
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:09 AM.


Denver Broncos