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Old 06-01-2009, 10:48 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I'm surprised that people would argue that because he was a combat vet it somehow explains away his actions. I would argue the opposite. In the military code of conduct, if you shot an enemy in the head and he was lying on the ground, unconscious and disarmed, if you walked up and pumped five bullets into him, you would likely face a courts martial. If this guy was a combat vet, you'd think he would have better control over his adrenelin response than the average person.
I'm not sure if you are addressing me, but when I mentioned his combat vet status I meant specifically that the training and experience should provide you with the presence of mind to overcome biological imperatives. Thus, the prosecution would likely use this as an argument for murder 1.

Last edited by Fedaykin; 06-01-2009 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:37 AM   #202
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The dude is a hero if you ask me. The only mistake he made was not to put 5 or 6 in him right off the bat. More people like that = less crime. Crime would be much less prevalent if we quit screwing around and babying felons.

I would love to see the "eye for an eye" justice system brought to America. Sex crimes against children = castration. Kill someone while drinking and driving = death sentence. Theft = lose your hand.

Now, that may be a little harsh and a median could most definitely be found. Take Singapore for example. A kid vandalized a car and 4 lashings from a bamboo rod....which should have been 6 but good old Clinton had it reduced. I'm willing to bet that most of the countries listed below have a very harsh judicial system.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita

Funny....the US is at the top for most crimes per capita...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-total-crimes

Crime Statistics > Total crimes (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
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Showing latest available data.

United States 18.7%
United Kingdom 10.3%
Germany 10.2%
France 5.9%
Russia 4.6%
Japan 4.5%
South Africa 4.2%
Canada 4%
Italy 3.5%
India 2.8%
Korea, South 2.4%
Mexico 2.4%
Netherlands 2.2%
Poland 2.2%
Argentina 2.1%
Sweden 1.9%
Belgium 1.5%
Spain 1.5%
Chile 0.9%
Thailand 0.9%
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:39 AM   #203
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Correction, # 8 per capita.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:41 AM   #204
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The dude is a hero if you ask me. The only mistake he made was not to put 5 or 6 in him right off the bat. More people like that = less crime. Crime would be much less prevalent if we quit screwing around and babying felons.

I would love to see the "eye for an eye" justice system brought to America. Sex crimes against children = castration. Kill someone while drinking and driving = death sentence. Theft = lose your hand.

Now, that may be a little harsh and a median could most definitely be found. Take Singapore for example. A kid vandalized a car and 4 lashings from a bamboo rod....which should have been 6 but good old Clinton had it reduced. I'm willing to bet that most of the countries listed below have a very harsh judicial system.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita

Funny....the US is at the top for most crimes per capita...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-total-crimes

Crime Statistics > Total crimes (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version
Pie Chart Map

Showing latest available data.

United States 18.7%
United Kingdom 10.3%
Germany 10.2%
France 5.9%
Russia 4.6%
Japan 4.5%
South Africa 4.2%
Canada 4%
Italy 3.5%
India 2.8%
Korea, South 2.4%
Mexico 2.4%
Netherlands 2.2%
Poland 2.2%
Argentina 2.1%
Sweden 1.9%
Belgium 1.5%
Spain 1.5%
Chile 0.9%
Thailand 0.9%
got alot of Muslim ideology in you .............The Pharmacist is no hero , not even close .......
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:44 AM   #205
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The first shot was self defense.

The five after were murderous. Lock him up.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:49 AM   #206
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The first shot was self defense.

The five after were murderous. Lock him up.
Yep.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:51 AM   #207
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The first shot was self defense.

The five after were murderous. Lock him up.
I agree that he should serve some time.....just not for first degree murder.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:52 AM   #208
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I'm willing to bet that most of the countries listed below have a very harsh judicial system.
I can assure you after studying criminology for a long time, there is no direct link between harshness of penalties and reduced crime rates. The comparison most often used in the US is between North Dakota and South Dakota. Identical states in almost every meaningful way population-wise. The main differences (in terms of the study of crime) are their stances towards punishment of criminals. South Dakota is tougher across the board and has capital punishment, while North Dakota doesn't. South Dakota, however, consistently ranks higher in rates of crime, both violent and non-violent.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:54 AM   #209
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The dude is a hero if you ask me. The only mistake he made was not to put 5 or 6 in him right off the bat. More people like that = less crime. Crime would be much less prevalent if we quit screwing around and babying felons.

I would love to see the "eye for an eye" justice system brought to America. Sex crimes against children = castration. Kill someone while drinking and driving = death sentence. Theft = lose your hand.

Now, that may be a little harsh and a median could most definitely be found. Take Singapore for example. A kid vandalized a car and 4 lashings from a bamboo rod....which should have been 6 but good old Clinton had it reduced. I'm willing to bet that most of the countries listed below have a very harsh judicial system.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita

Funny....the US is at the top for most crimes per capita...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-total-crimes

Crime Statistics > Total crimes (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version
Pie Chart Map

Showing latest available data.

United States 18.7%
United Kingdom 10.3%
Germany 10.2%
France 5.9%
Russia 4.6%
Japan 4.5%
South Africa 4.2%
Canada 4%
Italy 3.5%
India 2.8%
Korea, South 2.4%
Mexico 2.4%
Netherlands 2.2%
Poland 2.2%
Argentina 2.1%
Sweden 1.9%
Belgium 1.5%
Spain 1.5%
Chile 0.9%
Thailand 0.9%
Even as you claim to be a proponent of "eye for an eye", this kid had no weapon, and didn't shoot the pharm. This was a robbery, so instead of capping the kid 5 times, he should have cut his hand off to really meet the eye for an eye criteria.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:08 PM   #210
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The first shot was self defense.

The five after were murderous. Lock him up.
Yeah, so the tax payers can pay for him to live in our overfilled prison system? Sorry, but the guy, won't go to jail. His attorney is Irven Box, and will have this appealed down to manslaughter with no time to be served.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:19 PM   #211
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Yeah, so the tax payers can pay for him to live in our overfilled prison system? Sorry, but the guy, won't go to jail. His attorney is Irven Box, and will have this appealed down to manslaughter with no time to be served.
If we cut loose the pot smokers there would be plenty of room.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:21 PM   #212
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If we cut loose the pot smokers there would be plenty of room.

Holy ****. Have you lost your mind. Those types would create havock.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:42 PM   #213
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Holy ****. Have you lost your mind. Those types would create havock.
No Cheetohs would be safe.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:20 PM   #214
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got alot of Muslim ideology in you .............The Pharmacist is no hero , not even close .......
Hardly. The ideology is found in just about every culture throughout history. You will also find that the downfall of most societies throughout history generally coincide with society becoming weak. Bloated & dysfunctional government, justice system, tendency to rehabilitate or imprison rather than punish. Singapore is not a Muslim country and neither are several others that don't F around with criminals.

To say he's a hero is definitely extreme.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:29 PM   #215
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Hardly. The ideology is found in just about every culture throughout history. You will also find that the downfall of most societies throughout history generally coincide with society becoming weak. Bloated & dysfunctional government, justice system, tendency to rehabilitate or imprison rather than punish. Singapore is not a Muslim country and neither are several others that don't F around with criminals.
I am not sure where you did your history studies, but you should probably ask about their refund policy.

Most if not all of the major civilizations that have crumbled have had significantly harsher justice systems than we see anywhere in the world today (with the possible exception of a few countries in the Middle-east). Most of them have been dictatorships, and most of them failed when society grew strong enough to rebel and overthrow their leaders.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:32 PM   #216
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Even as you claim to be a proponent of "eye for an eye", this kid had no weapon, and didn't shoot the pharm. This was a robbery, so instead of capping the kid 5 times, he should have cut his hand off to really meet the eye for an eye criteria.
They held him up at gun point and the "kid" got what he had coming to him. To be a proponent of a more harsh criminal justice system does not mean that I think we should revert to Marshall law today. Did the pharmacist do the right thing by going back and shooting him, probably not; was he out of his mind with anger due to having a gun pointed...probably. As I alluded to above, to call him a hero is probably a little extreme and uncalled for. Especially without seeing the video.

I will however say that the argument that "he was just a kid" is completely off base. I grew up and spent a lot of time with the wrong crowd. I know several people that are now or were in jail for murders, major drug trafficking and assault which were committed when they were teenagers/kids. Just because they are naive does not give them an excuse to commit crimes and get away with it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #217
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I've seen quite a few 16 yr olds who look older than 18. It's not like he looked at the kids ID before pumping 5 more rounds into him.
it isnt the fact on his age on how he looked but the fact he was 16 as the story after the facts. Guy had every right to arm and protect himself but once the kid was down and doesnt show that he is trying to get up, 5 more shots to finish him off is going to get him some time. Personally, he helped all of us out from possibly being ambushed by this thug in a future date but he went overboard. The 1st degree murder charges are a stretch for the prosecution and he might walk just based on those charges. If they file manslaughter or lesser degree of murder, the guy would get convicted and spend a few years in prison. I hope he walks based on the attorney generals obvious try at scoring points with what he thinks is a simpathetic public. I think he will have a tough time prosecuting him with a jury of peers.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:45 PM   #218
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I think he will have a tough time prosecuting him with a jury of peers.
I wouldn't convict him
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:49 PM   #219
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No you haven't.
You're saying I'm lying? ...don't be an idiot Kreskin.

I was robbed 1/2 a block from my appartment while with my fiance at the time...Chattanooga Tennessee...I actually rode with cops and went around looking for the guy in seedy little bars and clubs. Yeah...I know exactly what it feels like to have that happen, and be told at the time he was going to blow my head off.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:54 PM   #220
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You're saying I'm lying? .

Yep.

What bars? I have spent a bunch of time Chat.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:54 PM   #221
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this wasnt "capital punishment"...this was self defense, and then an act of manslaughter after the fact.
Under OK law it was 1) not self defense, and 2) murder Sorry...you're wishful thinking doesn't come into play here.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #222
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Hardly. The ideology is found in just about every culture throughout history. You will also find that the downfall of most societies throughout history generally coincide with society becoming weak. Bloated & dysfunctional government, justice system, tendency to rehabilitate or imprison rather than punish. Singapore is not a Muslim country and neither are several others that don't F around with criminals.

To say he's a hero is definitely extreme.
Remind me to visit your home planet some day
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:02 PM   #223
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I am not sure where you did your history studies, but you should probably ask about their refund policy.

Most if not all of the major civilizations that have crumbled have had significantly harsher justice systems than we see anywhere in the world today (with the possible exception of a few countries in the Middle-east). Most of them have been dictatorships, and most of them failed when society grew strong enough to rebel and overthrow their leaders.
To tie down one specific reason for the fall of any given civilization is impossible to argue as there's a conglomeration of events that a all contributors. In addition, I'm not about to write a freaking essay to to prove the point because that's just silly. That's why I said it's mainly due to the civilization becoming weak. Example: The Roman Empire....which by the way is the basis of our society.

Another example of this would be Mexico. Weak criminal justice system, corruption, poor leadership = failure.

____

Mexican civil society has begun to question the generosity of their country’s legal system. Mexico has no death penalty, and the maximum prison term -- seldom imposed -- is 60 years. Additionally, it has refused to extradite individuals facing “cruel and unusual” punishment.

But the wave of violence that has washed over Mexico this year is fast transforming the landscape of Mexican society as Mexicans’ views on “punishment” are hardening. This shift is not so much because of the violence itself – approximately 92 percent of the 5,400 people killed in Mexico this year were involved in the drug trade – but because innocent civilians are getting caught in the crossfire between the Mexican police and the cartels.

To understand the subtle shifts in attitude, consider how Mexico’s views of crime and punishment evolved. Based on the Napoleonic Code introduced in the 19th century – when Napoleon invaded Mexico and installed Maximilian as Emperor – Mexico, like most European countries, does not have jury trials and, although there is no presumption of innocence, only “probable” doubt has to be established.

Mexico’s legal system reflects Catholic sensibilities: the idea that no one is beyond redemption, that everyone is entitled to forgiveness, and that only God can end a person’s life. As a consequence, Mexico has reluctantly extradited people accused of crimes in other countries. Sentences of more than 25 years in prison are seldom imposed, and there is no capital punishment.

American officials have long complained of Mexico’s naïveté, arguing that under Mexican law, terrorists can walk free a quarter century after their crimes. Mexican officials, meanwhile, have argued that with time, people grow and change, and can redeem themselves.

But now that violence – gruesome slayings where mutilated or decapitated bodies are dumped in public view – is affecting ordinary society, Mexico is seeing a public backlash.

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news...7931772e1ccbe9
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:07 PM   #224
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Yep.

What bars? I have spent a bunch of time Chat.
Don't be a jerk...it was 1983.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:07 PM   #225
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He was just a kid. Lots of kids do stupid things at that age. Doesn't mean that's who they are for their entire life. Like that great speech Morgan Freeman gives in Shawshank Redemption saying if he could go back and talk to the kid he was, maybe it would change things - but he can't. Who knows what happened here? Maybe the unarmed kid just went in there with the armed kid because he was trying to be cool. Who knows? Getting shot was the payment for his foolishness. But he did not deserve to be executed.
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