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Old 06-01-2009, 08:27 AM   #176
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and Footsteps, you are right....this board is seeping with racist undertones
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:38 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
So in other words if he'd gone in "even longer" than an hour later...and pumped 5 shots into him, he's not guilty of a crime. And his adrenal glands are the determining factor. Question: I still get mad as hell towards my wife's ex who abused her for years...sometimes I can feel an adreneline rush hearing his voice on the phone as he's calling to come pick up his daughter for visitiation. If I decide one day to pull out my .45 automag and make a little trip up the road 90 miles and cap his ass, should I get a free pass on that one? My adreneline is rushing...I've had to physically knock this piece of **** on the ground once because he presented a threat. Tell me...is this a lifetime pass I get based on his past behavior?

The only killing was done by the pharmacist; the lone kid with a gun never fired a shot.

So why do the cops read them "their rights"? Or are you advocating eliminating the right to a fair trial and suggesting justice by random public vigilantes is what you prefer? Is that what you prefer?

And people wonder why I see racism on this board.

Got it. Ex combat vets have a lifetime pass to murder people in cold blood any time they feel threatened. Good call.

Your example above is different from what happened in the store in Oklahoma.


The Pharmacist did shot the kid. That is in the video. No one is arguing otherwise. The kid was a part of a armed robbery as a robber. It would be unwise that because the pharmacist didn't see a gun to assume otherwise.

This was not a law enforcement situtation. This was a not a trained police officer.

I realize your are a hyper-sensitive race guy. And I realize you border line hate your own race, but I don't care what color this kid is or the color of the shooter. Take your race baiting some place else. This kid did something stupid that cost him his life and it doesn't have anything to do with his skin color. There is no senario under which I would side with the robbers. They started it.

I think you have a lack of respect of what it means to be a combat vet.

Last edited by Garcia Bronco; 06-01-2009 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:39 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by vancejohnson82 View Post
and Footsteps, you are right....this board is seeping with racist undertones
Don't hold that against footsteps. He's obviously seen things that have led to the way he views the world. I wouldn"t say he's a racist.
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:40 AM   #179
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That criminal knew he was doing something wrong.
Yes he did, which is why he lied to the cops twice.
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:45 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Your example above is different from what happened in the store in Oklahoma.


The Pharmacist did shot the kid. That is in the video. No one is arguing otherwise. The kid was a part of a robber as a robber. It would be unwise that because the pharmacist

This was not a law enforcement situtation. This was a not a trained police officer.
What does any of this even mean?
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I realize your are a hyper-sensitive race guy. And I realize you border line hate your own race, but I don't care what color this kid is or the color of the shooter. Take your race baiting some place else. This kid did something stupid that cost him his life and it doesn't have anything to do with his skin color. There is no senario under which I would side with the robbers. They started it.

I think you have a lack of respect of what it means to be a combat vet.
It's frequently not "what" is said in here...most people are much to intimidated to bring their true feelings to the surface...it's often "who" says it.

Good to know that asking combat vets to hold to the laws of society and not granting them a free pass to commit cold blooded murder constitutes a "lack of respect" for vets...makes almost as little sense as the "days later if his adrenaline kicks it" argument.

BTW...I don't disrespect my race...only some of those who share it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:53 AM   #181
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What does any of this even mean?

It's frequently not "what" is said in here...most people are much to intimidated to bring their true feelings to the surface...it's often "who" says it.

Good to know that asking combat vets to hold to the laws of society and not granting them a free pass to commit cold blooded murder constitutes a "lack of respect" for vets...makes almost as little sense as the "days later if his adrenaline kicks it" argument.
You cannot discount the effects biology has on human behavior. If you have ever had a gun stuck in your face you might begin to understand.

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BTW...I don't disrespect my race...only some of those who share it.

As if you could sum up anyone by the color of their skin. Their flaw, those racists you condem, is your flaw.

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Old 06-01-2009, 08:57 AM   #182
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Yes he did, which is why he lied to the cops twice.
I was talking about the robbers.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:03 AM   #183
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It's truly scary that someone's opinion is different than yours?
No...it's truly scary that you think we should do away with the justice system in favor of vigilante actions, use the death penalty on minors committing their first offense and put robbery into the capital crimes category. Yeah...all that is scary.
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I see a gray area in this matter because these were NOT innocent people he killed and they instigated the situation. Its a slippery slope, as you have pointed out but driving 90 miles to shoot your wife's ex is different that her ex coming to your house with a gun.
Maybe you missed it...GB says it's OK for someone whose adrenalin kicks into to return hours or even days...presumably forever actually...to return to kill someone who once threatened their life. And since this POS actually did that...I figure now I'm justified in blowing him away 3 years later.
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Once you brandish a weapon...OR ASSOCIATE yourself with someone who is flashing a gun at someone, you run the risk of being injured or killed. And thats what happened.
Except that this debate is not what you "run the risk of", it's about what should happen to you when you take the law into your own hands.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:05 AM   #184
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You cannot discount the effects biology has on human behavior. If you have ever had a gun stuck in your face you might begin to understand.
I have had a gun stuck in my face.
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As if you could sum up anyone by the color of their skin. Their flaw, those racists you condem, is your flaw.
Your flaw is reading comprehension.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:15 AM   #185
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I have had a gun stuck in my face.
No you haven't.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:16 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post

Maybe you missed it...GB says it's OK for someone whose adrenalin kicks into to return hours or even days...presumably forever actually...to return to kill someone who once threatened their life. And since this POS actually did that...I figure now I'm justified in blowing him away 3 years later.
I didn't say that. I said you could argue after some amount of hours that it is murder. Come on now....don't change the facts to support your conclusions.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:22 AM   #187
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No...it's truly scary that you think we should do away with the justice system in favor of vigilante actions, use the death penalty on minors committing their first offense and put robbery into the capital crimes category. Yeah...all that is scary.

Maybe you missed it...GB says it's OK for someone whose adrenalin kicks into to return hours or even days...presumably forever actually...to return to kill someone who once threatened their life. And since this POS actually did that...I figure now I'm justified in blowing him away 3 years later.

Except that this debate is not what you "run the risk of", it's about what should happen to you when you take the law into your own hands.

this wasnt "capital punishment"...this was self defense, and then an act of manslaughter after the fact.

I think you are just playing devil's advocate at this point to ruffle feathers so I'm not going to put a lot of time into this response....we just have different views on this
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:27 AM   #188
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This reminds me of my favorite movie pet peeve:

A kidnapped or fleeing person being pursued by someone with lethal intent. They manage to get the upper hand for a moment and stun or momentarily disable the assailant. Then, instead of finishing them off, they start running again. Eventually they are recaptured and killed, raped or whatever.

That said, when you've popped someone in the head and they are laying unconscious on the floor, they are no longer a threat and any additional action besides making sure they are out and disarmed is going too far. However, in a similar situation I would probably have done similarly. (EDIT: After reading more about the situation, I can firmly say that no, I would not have done what this murderer did.)

Now, the article says the pharmacist was a Desert Storm vet, which can either work in his favor or not. Either he can claim PTSD or similar, or he's gonna get nailed to the wall for his combat training.

Last edited by Fedaykin; 06-01-2009 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:27 AM   #189
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You can't go pumping five bullets into someone who is lying unconscious on the floor, posing no threat.

I applaud what he did in the first place, and had he shot the kid dead with the first bullet then I don't think there's any case to be made against him.

But this is quite clearly manslaughter, and by law the guy needs to spend some time in jail for it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:54 AM   #190
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Fear for your life isn't on your face. It's in your head. Now I haven't read the guys statement or anything like that. If I were on the jury, there is no way I would convict him.
So, if you fear for your life from someone, do you calmly turn your back to them?
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #191
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So, if you fear for your life from someone, do you calmly turn your back to them?
Maybe...maybe not. Depends on the person. Like you said...his traingin could work for him or against him.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:04 AM   #192
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Maybe...maybe not. Depends on the person. Like you said...his traingin could work for him or against him.
No experienced combat veteran is going to turn their back to a possible threat for no good reason. (The only good reason begin a bigger threat).

No one fearing for their life is going to turn their back to a threat for no good reason.

This man committed murder. He clearly was no longer fearing for his life.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:07 AM   #193
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No experienced combat veteran is going to turn their back to a possible threat for no good reason. (The only good reason begin a bigger threat).

No one fearing for their life is going to turn their back to a threat for no good reason.

This man committed murder. He clearly was no longer fearing for his life.
I have to agree with you on this one. Imobilize the threat, and then let the law take over. Take out the legs and shoulders, and you're "good to go".
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:08 AM   #194
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No experienced combat veteran is going to turn their back to a possible threat for no good reason. (The only good reason begin a bigger threat).

No one fearing for their life is going to turn their back to a threat for no good reason.

This man committed murder. He clearly was no longer fearing for his life.
You are making the big (and false) assumption that all people are rational and logical thinkers; and that everyone reacts the same to all situations.

Granted, in this instance, I don't believe he feared for his life at the point that he turned his back. But to make a blanket statement that nobody would do so in any circumstance is not accurate.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:10 AM   #195
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You are making the big (and false) assumption that all people are rational and logical thinkers; and that everyone reacts the same to all situations.

Granted, in this instance, I don't believe he feared for his life at the point that he turned his back. But to make a blanket statement that nobody would do so in any circumstance is not accurate.
Some people DO believe in revenge, more than others. I, for one, am part of that group!
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:11 AM   #196
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Maybe...maybe not. That's for other people to decide. I bet he gets off. It would be morally wrong to put that guy in jail, IMO.
No, it's morally wrong for him to shoot the kid five more times. He's good on the first shot. Give him a medal for that. He's a hero. Stood up for himself, and the kid had it coming. But the five other shots, he goes to jail for. He should go to jail for. It's a criminal act. The law allows you a lot in terms of protecting yourself, but it doesn't allow you to do what he did, and it shouldn't.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:16 AM   #197
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You are making the big (and false) assumption that all people are rational and logical thinkers; and that everyone reacts the same to all situations.

Granted, in this instance, I don't believe he feared for his life at the point that he turned his back. But to make a blanket statement that nobody would do so in any circumstance is not accurate.
I should clarify. Of course people will turn their back to a threat -- when they are trying to flee. However, clearly this man was NOT fleeing (despite having ample opportunity to do so). He instead turned and murdered someone who no longer posed any reasonable threat to him (and his actions demonstrate that he did not feel threatened).

If he felt threatened still he would not have turned his back unless fleeing. It's that simple.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:19 AM   #198
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How about this scenario:

The kid he shoots is a well-known criminal in the area that has done this before. It is known by all (including the guy working the counter - who recognizes the kid instantly) that this kid tried this before at a gas station down the road.....say one year prior.....and was foiled by that cashier as well. However, in that prior incident, the kid ran off with only bumps and bruises. He then followed the cashier home one night, broke into the cashier's house and attacked the cashier's family in an act of revenge for foiling his robbery attempt.

Would you now feel any differently about this current situation if it comes out that this cashier was simply trying to prevent such a situation from happening to him? What if the kid, after being shot but before passing out, says to the cashier that he will get revenge after he recovers?

Obviously I'm not saying that this in any way happened here. I'm just trying to see people's limits when it comes to "letting the police and courts do their jobs."
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:30 AM   #199
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No debate.

The guy calmly executed an unconscious boy as he lay helpless.

Shooting him in the head was sufficient to render him harmless, the rest was murder or manslaughter.......even in OK!
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:33 AM   #200
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I'm surprised that people would argue that because he was a combat vet it somehow explains away his actions. I would argue the opposite. In the military code of conduct, if you shot an enemy in the head and he was lying on the ground, unconscious and disarmed, if you walked up and pumped five bullets into him, you would likely face a courts martial. If this guy was a combat vet, you'd think he would have better control over his adrenelin response than the average person.
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