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Old 05-30-2009, 04:57 AM   #1
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Default Schein ranks Denver 29th

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Old 05-30-2009, 06:08 AM   #2
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Chiefs at 20, ahead of the Texans, Bills, and Redskins? This guy just lost all credibility with me. As much as I hate them, the skins are going to be in the mix this year, they will have a top 10 defense this year in almost every catagory, top 5 in sacks. The Texans are a sleeper team, and while I can understand why someone would undervalue them, below the Chiefs? Come on now. 5 worst teams Raiders, Lions, Rams, Browns, and us? One of these things is not like the others.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:17 AM   #3
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Come on now. 5 worst teams Raiders, Lions, Rams, Browns, and us? One of these things is not like the others.
It pains me to say it, but if you are suggesting Denver, I think you are way off. In fact, as much as I hate to say it, I think the Raiders will finish at least a couple of games ahead of Denver this season. Better running, better D, and maybe (depending on how fatso is doing) better QB. As to the coaching, the jury is still out and it would be homering to suggest otherwise (although we do know their HC stinks).
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:22 AM   #4
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It pains me to say it, but if you are suggesting Denver, I think you are way off. In fact, as much as I hate to say it, I think the Raiders will finish at least a couple of games ahead of Denver this season. Better running, better D, and maybe (depending on how fatso is doing) better QB. As to the coaching, the jury is still out and it would be homering to suggest otherwise (although we do know their HC stinks).
In fairness, what has Jamarcus Russell ever done to be considered a good QB?

Add in our superior line and receivers and it's a laughable suggestion.

Raiders might actually be half decent this year though, aside from that. I'm more concerned about them than Kansas, who are getting a lot of love from some places that I just can't fathom. People expecting Cassel to turn them around on offense are in for a comedown, particularly with Tony G gone.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:35 AM   #5
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Add in our superior line and receivers and it's a laughable suggestion.
I think our line was also affected by JC's mobility and arm as were our WR. That is, they are good, but I don't think they will be nearly as good without him (and our present QB). As to JM, you are right, but he does have a lot of talent, that is why I added the disclaimer regarding progress. Now as to Cassel, I was never in his bandwagon and that is why I have a high level of mistrust regarding MacD's ability to gauge talent. As to KC, considering what they had back there, you gotta think he is a huge improvement over last yr (although you do have a point about Gonzo). I wonder how many times Cassel will get sacked this yr.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:46 AM   #6
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I think our line was also affected by JC's mobility and arm as were our WR. That is, they are good, but I don't think they will be nearly as good without him (and our present QB). As to JM, you are right, but he does have a lot of talent, that is why I added the disclaimer regarding progress. Now as to Cassel, I was never in his bandwagon and that is why I have a high level of mistrust regarding MacD's ability to gauge talent. As to KC, considering what they had back there, you gotta think he is a huge improvement over last yr (although you do have a point about Gonzo). I wonder how many times Cassel will get sacked this yr.
he worked with cassel, he is probably the best QB coach in the league, yet you dont trust him to be good at finding a QB for this team? under mcdaniels, cassell looked pretty good last year, minus the sacks. we have a far better pass blocking oline than the pats do, similar receivers and probably better running game this year than they did last year.

and dont start the whole cutler thing again, cutler is not here because he didnt want to be here. mcdaniels did not try to force him out for cassel.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:50 AM   #7
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Chiefs at 20, ahead of the Texans, Bills, and Redskins? This guy just lost all credibility with me. As much as I hate them, the skins are going to be in the mix this year, they will have a top 10 defense this year in almost every catagory, top 5 in sacks. The Texans are a sleeper team, and while I can understand why someone would undervalue them, below the Chiefs? Come on now. 5 worst teams Raiders, Lions, Rams, Browns, and us? One of these things is not like the others.



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Old 05-30-2009, 06:55 AM   #8
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It pains me to say it, but if you are suggesting Denver, I think you are way off. In fact, as much as I hate to say it, I think the Raiders will finish at least a couple of games ahead of Denver this season. Better running, better D, and maybe (depending on how fatso is doing) better QB. As to the coaching, the jury is still out and it would be homering to suggest otherwise (although we do know their HC stinks).
Disagree on the bolded parts, our line plus Hillis comes close to thier running game, if Moreno is half of what is advertised we win that hands down. As for the coaching Al Davis relaying hail marys on second down through the cable guy is no where close to a guy that was a part of 18-1. Look I am not a big McDaniels supporter, but Oakland is a joke. What has you scared about them? The past five years of an average around 3-13 seasons or the draft they just put together that had most analysts comparing them to XFL teams?

Overall I don't think Denver is a powerhouse, but to lump us in with the 0-16 lions, the St Louis rams that may give us back to back 0-16 seasons, and the Raiders who have an Alzheimers patient micro-managing everything from hot dog vendors to defensive schemes is a mistake. I also think he missed on the Browns, who I believe will be better than the Bengals and are on the right track to move up. The Raiders might beat us by a game just based off the scheduling difference though. We get Indy and NE, they get the Texans and the Bills I believe. That gives them slight edge there, although even then I doubt they will beat either of those teams.

Edit: Correction Oakland gets the Texans and the Jets, nets about the same for thier W/L potential though. Sorry for the faulty memory on last years AFC standings.

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Old 05-30-2009, 07:07 AM   #9
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he worked with cassel, he is probably the best QB coach in the league, yet you dont trust him to be good at finding a QB for this team? under mcdaniels, cassell looked pretty good last year, minus the sacks. we have a far better pass blocking oline than the pats do, similar receivers and probably better running game this year than they did last year.

and dont start the whole cutler thing again, cutler is not here because he didnt want to be here. mcdaniels did not try to force him out for cassel.
Wow, I get to play both sides of the arguement in one thread, cool. The problem is we have seen what we have at QB now. Orton (assuming he beats out the spleenless wonder) is a career game manager. He has shown some good flashes now and then in his career, but he has also shown enough downside that he was a tag along to two first rounders in a trade for a real QB. I am not interested in rehashing the same old Cutler debate here, but the fact is Orton (though i am behind him 100% now that he is a Bronco) is just not that good. Can McDaniels make him better than he was? I certainly hope so, but to get him to a top 10 QB level is very optomistic. On the same hand though JaFatass Russel ain't a top 10 QB either. Rocket arm, but lacks in everything else. Another bad draft pick for the Raiders...I seem to see a trend.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:15 AM   #10
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orton is not that good, but he is not near as bad as people here will tell you. ask any logical bears fan they will agree. i live in northern illinois i hear about it all the time, and no one has ever really said orton is BAD, especially after last years season, with no oline and no WR he still put up good numbers, almost pro bowl like the fisrt half of the season.

im not saying hell be great, but he catches a lot more flack for being awful than necessary.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:16 AM   #11
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he worked with cassel, he is probably the best QB coach in the league, yet you dont trust him to be good at finding a QB for this team? under mcdaniels, cassell looked pretty good last year, minus the sacks. we have a far better pass blocking oline than the pats do, similar receivers and probably better running game this year than they did last year.

and dont start the whole cutler thing again, cutler is not here because he didnt want to be here. mcdaniels did not try to force him out for cassel.
But he not the QB coach anymore, he's the head coach. There is a lot additional time constrains on him that he never never experienced. Does he know talent maybe, or maybe Pioli and Bellicheck know talent and McDaniels reputation benefits from having good players around Cassel to make Cassel better then he is.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:18 AM   #12
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But he not the QB coach anymore, he's the head coach. There is a lot additional time constrains on him that he never never experienced. Does he know talent maybe, or maybe Pioli and Bellicheck know talent and McDaniels reputation benefits from having good players around Cassel to make Cassel better then he is.
orton just said in an interview like 2 days ago he can tell mcdaniels has a soft spot for the QB position. every head coach does that, spends a little more time on their side of the ball/position they favor because thats what they know. he knows offenses and he knows the QB position very well, so he should, and does, spend a lot of time there.

and like i said earlier in some post, the surrounding cast from here to NE is not different as far as talent. we have more RB talent, a far better pass blocking oline, similar receievers (we have similar depth but moss and welker > marshall and royal). talent is not the problem on the offensive side of the ball
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:22 AM   #13
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orton just said in an interview like 2 days ago he can tell mcdaniels has a soft spot for the QB position. every head coach does that, spends a little more time on their side of the ball/position they favor because thats what they know. he knows offenses and he knows the QB position very well, so he should, and does, spend a lot of time there.
Him spending time there doesn't mean that good thing. He was hired to be the Head Coach not the Offense Coordinator not the Quarterbacks Coach, the Head Coach.

One of the worse sin anyone that gets promoted can do is stay in their comfort zone and do their old job instead of what they were promoted to do.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:31 AM   #14
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orton is not that good, but he is not near as bad as people here will tell you. ask any logical bears fan they will agree. i live in northern illinois i hear about it all the time, and no one has ever really said orton is BAD, especially after last years season, with no oline and no WR he still put up good numbers, almost pro bowl like the fisrt half of the season.

im not saying hell be great, but he catches a lot more flack for being awful than necessary.
I'm not saying he'll be awful, I'm just saying expecting him to get close to Cutlers numbers for last year which set a few team records is unrealistic. It seems to be all or nothing this offseason. Either we have the best QB or the worst, the best coach or the worst. We will win 10 to 12 games and take the division, or we will win less than the Raiders. It all depends on who you ask. I see some shades of gray here. I think we will be in the middle. Improved from last year in some areas, declining at others.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:41 AM   #15
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I'm not saying he'll be awful, I'm just saying expecting him to get close to Cutlers numbers for last year which set a few team records is unrealistic. It seems to be all or nothing this offseason. Either we have the best QB or the worst, the best coach or the worst. We will win 10 to 12 games and take the division, or we will win less than the Raiders. It all depends on who you ask. I see some shades of gray here. I think we will be in the middle. Improved from last year in some areas, declining at others.
no one said we will have the best QB, plenty seem to think we will have the worst. he wont put up better numbers than cutler but the offense will likely put up better numbers (points) than last year. the defense cant be worse than last year.

most people are in shades of grey on this board, and a lot of haters converted to "lets wait and see" after they realized their endless crying did no good.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:49 AM   #16
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A couple things.

First. Schein has been laying on the hate ever since the Cutler thing started. He is a sissy b**** and i'm getting sick of his rants. He has lost all objectivity, and now he just comes off like a jilted girlfriend. Marshall should go slap him around a little (if Marshall ever comes back).

Second. Let's get over this Jay Cutler mobility thing ok. It was an asset, but Jay also held the bell too long, made risky throws, stared down his receivers, went for homeruns instead of first downs, and trusted his arm way too much. If we have a "chicken" at QB that dumps the passes off more quickly and continues drives instead of throwing deep into double coverage - i'm all for it. I was totally pumped about watching Jay play for McD, but I knew in my heart the biggest issue was whether Jay would listen to his new coach and protect the ball by making quicker, less risky decisions. I wasn't quite sure that would ever happen, but now we'll never know.

Schein sucks, and he should wait for the preseason before releasing junk like this. If just helps him lose more credibility. I think at this time of the season, the analysts should just rank in "tiers" of great teams, good teams, teams that need work, and bad teams. They shouldn't even bother trying to order next year's draft.
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:55 AM   #17
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This Schein character must be a "fan" from this board.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:47 AM   #18
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A couple things.

First. Schein has been laying on the hate ever since the Cutler thing started. He is a sissy b**** and i'm getting sick of his rants. He has lost all objectivity, and now he just comes off like a jilted girlfriend. Marshall should go slap him around a little (if Marshall ever comes back).

Second. Let's get over this Jay Cutler mobility thing ok. It was an asset, but Jay also held the bell too long, made risky throws, stared down his receivers, went for homeruns instead of first downs, and trusted his arm way too much. If we have a "chicken" at QB that dumps the passes off more quickly and continues drives instead of throwing deep into double coverage - i'm all for it. I was totally pumped about watching Jay play for McD, but I knew in my heart the biggest issue was whether Jay would listen to his new coach and protect the ball by making quicker, less risky decisions. I wasn't quite sure that would ever happen, but now we'll never know.

Schein sucks, and he should wait for the preseason before releasing junk like this. If just helps him lose more credibility. I think at this time of the season, the analysts should just rank in "tiers" of great teams, good teams, teams that need work, and bad teams. They shouldn't even bother trying to order next year's draft.
What?
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:50 AM   #19
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Him spending time there doesn't mean that good thing. He was hired to be the Head Coach not the Offense Coordinator not the Quarterbacks Coach, the Head Coach.

One of the worse sin anyone that gets promoted can do is stay in their comfort zone and do their old job instead of what they were promoted to do.
him trying to do what he does best - develop quarterbacks and make effective offensives, is what he should be doing. he picked a defensive staff to let them do their job and they said earlier in the year he doesnt interfere, just checks in with them. thats the role of a head coach, to do whats in the best interest of the team. if he is very good at turning moderate QBs into highly good and effective ones that can run his offense, thats what he should be doing.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:51 AM   #20
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I'm not saying he'll be awful, I'm just saying expecting him to get close to Cutlers numbers for last year which set a few team records is unrealistic. It seems to be all or nothing this offseason. Either we have the best QB or the worst, the best coach or the worst. We will win 10 to 12 games and take the division, or we will win less than the Raiders. It all depends on who you ask. I see some shades of gray here. I think we will be in the middle. Improved from last year in some areas, declining at others.
Orton was right there with Cutler last year in TD%, Orton was less in INT%, slightly less in YPA. Once a QB gets above 400 attempts (that's 25 attempts/gm), the % stats are very telling.

Cutler 2008:

616 attempts (38.5 attempts/gm)
4.1 TD%
2.9 INT%
7.3 YPA
Comp % 62.3

Orton 2008:

465 attempts (31 attempts/gm)
3.9 TD%
2.6 INT%
6.4 YPA
Comp % 58.5

Orton was right near Cutler last year, so I don't see why he wouldn't be able to come real close to Cutler's total numbers this year. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Let's look at Cassel just for comparison:

Cassel 2008:

516 attempts (32.25 attempts/gm)
4.1 TD%
2.1 INT%
7.2 YPA
Comp % 63.4
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:53 AM   #21
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no one said we will have the best QB, plenty seem to think we will have the worst. he wont put up better numbers than cutler but the offense will likely put up better numbers (points) than last year. the defense cant be worse than last year.

most people are in shades of grey on this board, and a lot of haters converted to "lets wait and see" after they realized their endless crying did no good.
I was going to go back and link to a few of the Orton is better than Cutler threads, You know, the case for Orton as an upgrade, Kyle Orton: Best Red Zone Quarterback (Jay Cutler: Worst Red Zone Quarterback), but you are right, it has become much more civil around here. Rather than rake up the past lets move forward. Maybe if you stopped calling people names like haters it might be a step in the right direction.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:53 AM   #22
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Mobile QB's take more sacks than pocket passers. That's a fact.
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:57 AM   #23
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5-11 in one of the worst divisions in football should get you ranked in the bottom 5 of the NFL--we will be 1-5 to start the season this year with our 1 win coming against CLE @ home in our home openner. By then, Schein will have us ranked at 31 or 32..........
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:00 AM   #24
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Come on now. 5 worst teams Raiders, Lions, Rams, Browns, and us? One of these things is not like the others.
Figuring QB and defense as probably the most important factors, we shared the worst honors with Detroit last year on defense. Rams and Browns have more proven QB's. Russel's a wild card. He was picked #1 for a reason but I don't know if anybody can thrive in that mess Al Davis has concocted. 29 seems to low...but there are to many question marks to put us above maybe 24 or so in 2009. Keys to this D IMO are Marcus Thomas emerging as a legitimate stopper and at least one UDFA in the line making a Woodyard-like mark for us. Even if that happens, we still have at least 3 guys starting at LB who have either never played LB at all, or haven't seen time in a 3-4 defense. Add it up and it means we need to score a lot of points.
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:01 AM   #25
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I was going to go back and link to a few of the Orton is better than Cutler threads, You know, the case for Orton as an upgrade, Kyle Orton: Best Red Zone Quarterback (Jay Cutler: Worst Red Zone Quarterback), but you are right, it has become much more civil around here. Rather than rake up the past lets move forward. Maybe if you stopped calling people names like haters it might be a step in the right direction.
there is things orton IS better at than cutler, but cutler obviously has a much, much higher ceiling. orton knows to check down instead of force throws, QBs who trust their arms too much throw a lot of picks ala brett favre, jay cutler etc. i think orton will have a better grasp on this offense than cutler would have because of that ability to check down when needed, and i think ortons leadership ability is far and away better simply because hes not a huge dick to everyone. you never heard good reports about cutlers intangibles, but when orton was traded, 5+ players spoke out about how good he was. when cutler forced his way out of denver due to hurt feelings, he left a bad taste in a lot of players mouths and you can tell, just listen to marshalls interview on nfln.

that said, cutler has far more physical ability and if he can realize that throwing it deep does not win games and having YAC monsters like scheff and marshall are great things, he would have won more games and had less picks. i think he felt he needed to carry the entire offense on his back, which obviously wasnt true at all.
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