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Old 05-17-2009, 07:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
so for your argument that when Peyton had defenses as bad as Jay's that he had a worse record you point to his rookie year in which he was taking over for a team that was 3-13 the previous two years

and the 2001 season in what was an injury plagued year for the organization.

not really making yourself a great argument with that.
2007 was Jays first full year as a starter and we can all agree that we had a lot of injuries in 2008, the argument remains 100% valid.
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:20 PM   #27
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suck it jay cutler. goooo broncos!!
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:49 PM   #28
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Yawn.
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:56 PM   #29
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I wonder if Chicago forums are this obsessed with the loss of Orton?
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:13 PM   #30
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Good article. Its nice to see some journalists understand what the hell is going on here vs. your typical ignorant "they lost Cutler, they'll go 3-13" garbage.
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:15 PM   #31
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Lots of words to rationalize why we're better even though we lost a pro bowl QB.
...and anyone that believes last season's probowl appearance was merited is high on Cutler jock fumes. Is he talented? Yes. Is he a probowl level QB? No.

How's this for less words... The offense will be improved or a push. The D and special teams are already improved. The coaching? We'll have to wait and see.
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:48 PM   #32
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...and anyone that believes last season's probowl appearance was merited is high on Cutler jock fumes. Is he talented? Yes. Is he a probowl level QB? No.

How's this for less words... The offense will be improved or a push. The D and special teams are already improved. The coaching? We'll have to wait and see.
Jay was deserving of the pro bowl last year(Rivers should have gone in ahead of him though) but the point is, we may be less talented at the QB position, but as a TEAM we are better than we were last season.

we have legit rushing threats, our line is returning intact, our receivers have another year of experience and are getting better, we have finally dumped the garbage that was infesting our defense, brought in vocal leaders, completely revamped our secondary, brought in a lot of high character guys, addressed special teams play in the draft, brought in good coaches to surround a rookie HC.

outside of the loss of physical talent at QB(i feel Orton has better mental ability than Jay) and an unknown at HC, this team is lots better than last season.

i am telling all you doom and gloom fans, this team is going to shock a lot of doubters and is going to look like a team that will be a contender for years to come when this season is finished. 10-6 with a wild card berth is my prediction for this team.
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:53 PM   #33
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...and anyone that believes last season's probowl appearance was merited is high on Cutler jock fumes. Is he talented? Yes. Is he a probowl level QB? No.
Cutler's the only reason we didn't go 4-12 last year, so yeah...he is a pro bowl level QB, whether you like it or not.
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How's this for less words... The offense will be improved or a push. The D and special teams are already improved. The coaching? We'll have to wait and see.
All that before we've played a single game huh?
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:58 PM   #34
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...outside of the loss of physical talent at QB(i feel Orton has better mental ability than Jay) and an unknown at HC, this team is lots better than last season.
Most people would say that the HC spot and the QB spot have a lot to do with winning. One's never coached a team and one's never been considered more than a backup talent.

Other than that you're dead on...
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:00 PM   #35
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It's a good article, it has many valid points. If Orton blossoms into the next McD fantasy QB then this team will be hella better than many anticipate. The defense can't get any worse and with Shanny and Slowik gone, it just got better. Special Teams is also being taken seriously. Aside from Cutler leaving the team has gotten stronger at almost every position. Safety is gonna be much better. LBers are better, Dline is still unknown.

We shall see what transpires, but I'm excited.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:06 PM   #36
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We still have our offensive line. We still have our receivers. We have more tight ends. We still have good offensive coaches. And now we have a running game.

Losing Jay will hurt, but we gain a player that's better in the redzone and with with the running game and our offensive line, I don't understand how the whiners are so certain our offense is going to "suck" next year. Jay was a horrible redzone QB and we were 15th in scoring. Orton is a very good redzone QB.

I bet we score more points next year even though we'll have fewer yards.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:08 PM   #37
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Any one else notice there was not ONE WORD about the defense, but alot of talk of "inheriting' players.

Take my name. 6-10 and we give Seattle the 9th pick.
Well, that just might have been because the article was titled "Denver's New Look Offense, so it was probably focusing on that side of the ball.

Personally, I think the offense is going to be as good as it was last year. Orton may not put up Cutler-like numbers, but the running game should be impressive barring another freakish rash of injuries there, and that should mean the whole thing runs much more smoothly than last year.

Plus, even if the naysayers are right and his blows chunks at everything else, I don't see McGhengisKhan or whatever we're calling him now running a bad offense with the tools we have.

So this season might just hang on the ability of the defense and special teams. And that's a complete wild card right now. Attempting to say otherwise is ridiculous-we've changed coaches, changed systems, and gotten many new players.

Exciting times in Broncoland!
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:17 PM   #38
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I was refuting the assertion that Manning took teams to the playoffs with defenses as bad as ours. Any moron knows a team's ability to win is based on more than the QB, so these stupid arguments that a guy whose played 2.3 seasons with horrible defenses and a crappy running game should have been in the playoffs is just ignorant.

Maybe if we hadn't given up 30, 30 and FIFTY TWO POINTS in their last 3 games we wouldn't be having this idiotic disucssion.
I was wondering if there were any smart people left on this board. Thank you!

You guys are just making excuses so you can feel better about this up coming season. Which isn't a bad thing at all but ignoring facts just tells me you guys are delusional and didn't watch any broncos games
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:17 PM   #39
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Most people would say that the HC spot and the QB spot have a lot to do with winning. One's never coached a team and one's never been considered more than a backup talent.

Other than that you're dead on...
Jay is more athletically gifted, Orton is better at the mental aspects of the game, and even though he doesn't have the howitzer for an arm that Jay did, he has a good arm, throws a catchable ball, and wins. he has won for teams with no offensive line to protect him and no receivers to catch for him. now he has a line that will keep him upright, and he has the receiving talent to take his game to a new level, as well as legit rushing threats to take pressure off him. i don't forsee any real dropoff that will occur from what Jay did for us, to what Orton will do for us.

In fact with Orton not having the ego of having the supposed best arm on the planet that Jay thought he did, we can kiss goodbye those few passes a game Jay used to throw that either did or nearly did end up in INTs that hurt the team, and because of that the QB play will be better. Less flashy but solid.

and with McDaniels, he has taken firm control of this team. he brought in a lot of good guys to lead on the field and from the sidelines, and showed with the Ayers pick that he will listen to and take advice from his coaching staff, which shows he knows he is in charge but doesn't know everything, which means he has a good grasp on what it is going to take to be a good coach for us.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:22 PM   #40
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Aside from Cutler leaving the team has gotten stronger at almost every position.
Most positions remain the same, at least on offense, so that's untrue.
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Safety is gonna be much better. LBers are better, Dline is still unknown
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Quite optimistic...I hope you're right.

Here's some reality though. A year ago we had an aging hitter who was a great leader at safety playing out his string. Now we have another one. We replaced an undersized CB known for gambling with another one with less credentials. Linebacker? Who knows? It's probable the two outside starters will be guys who have never even played the position and DJ Williams inside may not fit the 3-4 defense at all, much less playing inside...so saying we're better is a stretch built on pure faith. The D-line is less than an "unknown"...it's bult largely on players that are either backups or have no experience in the NFL. Since you win or lose on defense in the trenches, it's entirely possible that we will be just as bad as last year. I'm hopeful coaching changes boosts us up a bit but coaches don't make tackles now do they?

It's great to be excited, but I'm witholding a view of this defense until they prove something on the field, and any kind of blanket analysis sugesting their better is complete speculation at this point IMO.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:23 PM   #41
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this thread is a waste of something........
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:24 PM   #42
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I was wondering if there were any smart people left on this board. Thank you!

You guys are just making excuses so you can feel better about this up coming season. Which isn't a bad thing at all but ignoring facts just tells me you guys are delusional and didn't watch any broncos games
with you looking back at our offense from last season and seeing the 370 points Jay led us to, and the 16th ranked scoring offense, and thinking that this team with a revamped running game, and a QB who will not make nearly as many costly decisions, and is a better red zone QB will not be better leads me to wonder whether you watch football or if you are ignoring the fact that 23 points per game by Jay is not that hard to replicate with someone else.

Jay is a good QB, but his contributions from last season can and will be matched by Orton this season, and the team will be better than it was last season
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:29 PM   #43
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with you looking back at our offense from last season and seeing the 370 points Jay led us to, and the 16th ranked scoring offense, and thinking that this team with a revamped running game, and a QB who will not make nearly as many costly decisions, and is a better red zone QB will not be better leads me to wonder whether you watch football or if you are ignoring the fact that 23 points per game by Jay is not that hard to replicate with someone else.

Jay is a good QB, but his contributions from last season can and will be matched by Orton this season, and the team will be better than it was last season
I think you're going to find that Orton playing on a team with the #1 ranked defense in the NFL versus playing on this one will tend to force him to do what Jay did...try to score every time downfield. If so...this will be a brand new experience for him.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:33 PM   #44
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Most positions remain the same, at least on offense, so that's untrue.
.
Quite optimistic...I hope you're right.

Here's some reality though. A year ago we had an aging hitter who was a great leader at safety playing out his string. Now we have another one. We replaced an undersized CB known for gambling with another one with less credentials. Linebacker? Who knows? It's probable the two outside starters will be guys who have never even played the position and DJ Williams inside may not fit the 3-4 defense at all, much less playing inside...so saying we're better is a stretch built on pure faith. The D-line is less than an "unknown"...it's bult largely on players that are either backups or have no experience in the NFL. Since you win or lose on defense in the trenches, it's entirely possible that we will be just as bad as last year. I'm hopeful coaching changes boosts us up a bit but coaches don't make tackles now do they?

It's great to be excited, but I'm witholding a view of this defense until they prove something on the field, and any kind of blanket analysis sugesting their better is complete speculation at this point IMO.
our offense is better than last season. Our young line has a full year of experience under their belts and are better because of that, we have depth along the line as well. we drafted a good backup to Graham (and in goal line or short yardage situations another big body to move the pile with Quinn) we brought in depth at the receiver position, and because of that will not be doomed if Marshall or Royal suffer injury. we addressed the running game big time, and because of that Orton will not be called on to carry the team, but to lead it and make smart decisions, which he does a lot better than Jay does.

the defense upgraded the secondary in a big way. we brought in strong vocal veteran leaders as well as drafted young guys to learn from those veteran leaders in the secondary. Smith was the best corner in this draft and if he were 3 inches taller would have been a top 15 pick. Ayers is going to be good for us in the SOLB position and as an end in the 4-3 allignments we will also use. Peterson, THomas, Powell, and others will be better used and play better under coaches who will give them good teaching and put them in the best position to succeed.

we are better than last season in every aspect. and yes that includes coaching and QB play, because outside of Mike, Turner and Dennison, our coaches weren't that good last season and have been upgraded this offseason. and although Orton isn't as athletically gifted as Jay was, he is a better cerebral QB that Jay, and has proven he is capable of winning on a team with no offensive line and no receiving weapons.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:35 PM   #45
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I think you're going to find that Orton playing on a team with the #1 ranked defense in the NFL versus playing on this one will tend to force him to do what Jay did...try to score every time downfield. If so...this will be a brand new experience for him.
i think Orton has plenty of experience in being in a bad situation as a QB. unlike Jay who had to worry about the score, Orton had to worry about getting killed on every play, because he had no protection and no receiving weapons. so they both had their problems as QBs and Orton has delivered better than Jay has with limitations.
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:10 PM   #46
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i think Orton has plenty of experience in being in a bad situation as a QB. unlike Jay who had to worry about the score, Orton had to worry about getting killed on every play, because he had no protection and no receiving weapons. so they both had their problems as QBs and Orton has delivered better than Jay has with limitations.
Nonsense.

Check Orton's stats and here's what you find:

The 2005 season when he was a rookie and went 11-5 he played with the #1 ranked defense in the NFL. Three years later, after watching Griese and Grossman start ahead of him because Bears coaches didn't see him as the answer, he played with a defense ranked 16th instead. In virtually every categoy he improved from his rookie season, which one would expect, but the Bears finished with a 9-7 record. His completion percentage jumped by 7%, yardage increased by over 1100 yards, TD passes doubled, he threw the ball over 100 times more but had 1 fewer INT and 3 fewer sacks, yards per attempt jumped from 5.1 to 6.4 and he threw for more than 70 yards per game more...and his QB rating went from 59.7 to 79.6...a whopping 20 point gain. And in all this improvement, the Bears offense even improving from 26th in scoring to 14th...as a starter Orton won 2 fewer games. As for him having to run for his life...last year he was sacked 29 times, 20th overall...and the Steelers and Patriots gave up 49 and 48 respectively...this while playing in a short yardage passing game designed to let him dump the ball off and avoid taking sacks.

The record is clear...Orton's success in Chicago was primarily the result of a great defense and an offense designed to minimize his participation as much as possible, which is why the Bears traded him.
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:50 PM   #47
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I think you're going to find that Orton playing on a team with the #1 ranked defense in the NFL versus playing on this one will tend to force him to do what Jay did...try to score every time downfield. If so...this will be a brand new experience for him.
You mean that #1 ranked defense that was ranked 16th in the league in scoring last year?
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:57 PM   #48
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You mean that #1 ranked defense that was ranked 16th in the league in scoring last year?
It's usually a good idea to fully read things before you post.
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:00 PM   #49
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It's usually a good idea to fully read things before you post.
I'm pretty sure I didn't leave out anything in that quote.
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:02 PM   #50
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I was refuting the assertion that Manning took teams to the playoffs with defenses as bad as ours. Any moron knows a team's ability to win is based on more than the QB, so these stupid arguments that a guy whose played 2.3 seasons with horrible defenses and a crappy running game should have been in the playoffs is just ignorant.

Maybe if we hadn't given up 30, 30 and FIFTY TWO POINTS in their last 3 games we wouldn't be having this idiotic disucssion.
Our D sucked, and you can blame it on them till you're blue in the face , but the truth of the matter is 2 TDs to 4 picks in those 3 games is not gonna help matters. Your boy tanked in the clutch.

Also, some food for thought... Brian Griese managed to lead our beloved Broncos to a 11-5 record and playoff berth in 2000 with the 24th ranked D in football. Just sayin'.
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