Healthcare sector scared of Obama?

[Bob]

I wonder when he will start to hire and fire CEO’s. He and his party (and I think many R’s too) want to make dependents of all, and will not fix what is wrong with healthcare, but take motivation out of the system, take profitability out of it, and create waiting lists.


Just like with businesses that take money, now they tell them what to do, so also if we take government run healthcare, they will feel it is within their right to tell us what to do as they are paying for it….so again, it comes down to loosing personal freedoms drip by drip.

So, if your argument supporting slavery is that Bush did it, well your right, this is a systemic problem in both parties.

There seems to be a strong-arm approach with businesses right now, and bribes…Ford appears to have been able to resist thus far, but if they take the “help” they will become slaves. Have you guys looked at the Chrysler deal, and who will own the company, and more votes on the board?

Whenever people want care in other countries, they come here. Now, I guess they can go to Cuba?

This is not as much about right and left as it is about the government wanting to wreck one of the last semi-healthy sectors of the economy.

[broncofan7]

He NEEDS to fire Angela Braly--------

[Odysseus]

Nobody heard what happened with the drug companies today?

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bob

I wonder when he will start to hire and fire CEO’s. He and his party (and I think many R’s too) want to make dependents of all, and will not fix what is wrong with healthcare, but take motivation out of the system, take profitability out of it, and create waiting lists.


Just like with businesses that take money, now they tell them what to do, so also if we take government run healthcare, they will feel it is within their right to tell us what to do as they are paying for it….so again, it comes down to loosing personal freedoms drip by drip.

So, if your argument supporting slavery is that Bush did it, well your right, this is a systemic problem in both parties.

There seems to be a strong-arm approach with businesses right now, and bribes…Ford appears to have been able to resist thus far, but if they take the “help” they will become slaves. Have you guys looked at the Chrysler deal, and who will own the company, and more votes on the board?

Whenever people want care in other countries, they come here. Now, I guess they can go to Cuba?

This is not as much about right and left as it is about the government wanting to wreck one of the last semi-healthy sectors of the economy.

So I didn't check my mailbox for a week and the postal carrier cancels my mail. I call. I get it fixed. Mail will resume. Then the postal carrier did it again two weeks later.

This is just walking to my house and delivering the mail addressed to me. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The Government has the hardest of time getting this right. This simplest of simple tasks.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

So I didn't check my mailbox for a week and the postal carrier cancels my mail. I call. I get it fixed. Mail will resume. Then the postal carrier did it again two weeks later.

This is just walking to my house and delivering the mail addressed to me. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The Government has the hardest of time getting this right. This simplest of simple tasks.

Just trust them with prioritizing who gets a heart transplant, and who doesnt...

[Fedaykin]

I grow weary of the persistent myth that under the current HC system there are no waiting lists and anyone can get any treatment they want.

It's totally BS.

There are tons of waiting lists -- those waiting for the financial ability to seek medical care either because of no insurance or insufficient insurance.

There is little choice in treatment even for those with health insurance. Your insurer is the one that decides what doctors and/or treatments it will or will not pay for.

In the U.S. we have world class health care with no waiting lists and no organization determining your treatment options, but only for the small minority that can afford it.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

I grow weary of the persistent myth that under the current HC system there are no waiting lists and anyone can get any treatment they want.

It's totally BS.

There are tons of waiting lists -- those waiting for the financial ability to seek medical care either because of no insurance or insufficient insurance.

There is little choice in treatment even for those with health insurance. Your insurer is the one that decides what doctors and/or treatments it will or will not pay for.

In the U.S. we have world class health care with no waiting lists and no organization determining your treatment options, but only for the small minority that can afford it.

I am not rich, yet I don't have issues. Sure there are people that have issues, that won't change if it's governemnt run. Ultimately it's your decision to get a plan and RTFC.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bob

Just trust them with prioritizing who gets a heart transplant, and who doesnt...

They would be playing God. It already happens today.

[Rohirrim]

Should a health care system be based on profitability?

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

They would be playing God. It already happens today.

That is not true. God actually cares about people regardless of income. Our health care system cares about ability to pay and even that is no longer in vogue.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by quiettiger

That is not true. God actually cares about people regardless of income. Our health care system cares about ability to pay and even that is no longer in vogue.

Hmmm My brother was saved by City of Hope. If you think they only care about money there I would suggest you go take a tour of the childrens ward there and see what type of lives they come from. It's rich, poor, everything. The only thing they have in common is the Leukemia.

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Should a health care system be based on profitability?

YES (IF YOU WANT THE BEST)

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Arkie

YES (IF YOU WANT THE BEST)

So the rich get the best and the rest get what's left. Same as it ever was. Vivant optimates!

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

So the rich get the best and the rest get what's left. Same as it ever was. Vivant optimates!

So work hard, get educated, and get rich. Being accomplished should be a goal for everyone and monetary rewards come with the accomplishments.

The world in which rich and poor are treated equally is not capitalism. Are you guys arguing for doing away with capitalism? Or should money just be for fun, not actually be there for anything?

[kappys]

Originally Posted by cah412

So work hard, get educated, and get rich. Being accomplished should be a goal for everyone and monetary rewards come with the accomplishments.

The world in which rich and poor are treated equally is not capitalism. Are you guys arguing for doing away with capitalism? Or should money just be for fun, not actually be there for anything?

Right. If only we were all millionaires then the possibilty of catastrophic illness wouldn't be so cumbersome. Plus we get to watch people without health care die in the streets.

We already have done away with capitalism as a pure entitiy and its the right thing to do. We had our experimentation with pure capitalism in the 1800's and if you recall it didn't end well.

[NaptownChief]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

So the rich get the best and the rest get what's left. Same as it ever was. Vivant optimates!

Going out and getting a full time job with decent health insurance is obtainable for millions upon millions of non-RICH people.

Are there some hard working quality people that don't have good health insurance? Sure, but by and large if you set your priorities properly in life and just do the bare minimums you can obtain a full time job with decent health insurance. I don't know of a single person in my families over the last three generations that wasn't able to accomplish that and I can assure you that virtually none of them constitute being called rich.

I'm not blind to the fact that some people get a raw deal but by and large people create their own raw deal.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by NaptownChief

Going out and getting a full time job with decent health insurance is obtainable for millions upon millions of non-RICH people.

Are there some hard working quality people that don't have good health insurance? Sure, but by and large if you set your priorities properly in life and just do the bare minimums you can obtain a full time job with decent health insurance. I don't know of a single person in my families over the last three generations that wasn't able to accomplish that and I can assure you that virtually none of them constitute being called rich.

I'm not blind to the fact that some people get a raw deal but by and large people create their own raw deal.

Exactly Nappy.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by quiettiger

Our health care system cares about ability to pay and even that is no longer in vogue.

You have to pay to play in this world. All the changes we make aren't going to change that. As a species though, we're pretty good. It's all about priorities. Some people have a cable TV priority over their own healthcare. Some prefer other things over their healthcare. If more people took the time to properly gauge what they need to succeed in life, we wouldn't have so many loud screaming mouths about what they don't have and what they think they are entitled to.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

You have to pay to play in this world. All the changes we make aren't going to change that. As a species though, we're pretty good. It's all about priorities. Some people have a cable TV priority over their own healthcare. Some prefer other things over their healthcare. If more people took the time to properly gauge what they need to succeed in life, we wouldn't have so many loud screaming mouths about what they don't have and what they think they are entitled to.

I think what many people do when they want to distance themselves from feelings of compassion for the plight of their fellow man is to simply pass judgment. Make those people beneath contempt in your own mind and you can simply write them off. I work in a hospital. I can tell you from experience the above opinion is unadulterated bs.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

So I didn't check my mailbox for a week and the postal carrier cancels my mail. I call. I get it fixed. Mail will resume. Then the postal carrier did it again two weeks later.

This is just walking to my house and delivering the mail addressed to me. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The Government has the hardest of time getting this right. This simplest of simple tasks.

The goverment

Do they receive goverment funding? I don't think so!

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I think what many people do when they want to distance themselves from feelings of compassion for the plight of their fellow man is to simply pass judgment. Make those people beneath contempt in your own mind and you can simply write them off. I work in a hospital. I can tell you from experience the above opinion is unadulterated bs.

Yeah, and I have done fund raising, misson work, and some limited social work and I saw it all the time. Plus, working in a bank. That was awesome. You could always tell what day was the 1st of the month. Welfare moms would be in line getting a welfare check talking about going and getting their hair done and what they were going to buy. Priorities. Many have them out of whack. It's your own responsibility to take care of yourself. If you do you'll be in a position to get a hand up, and others will be glad to help. People don't like handouts.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

The goverment

Do they receive goverment funding? I don't think so!

The US postal system is a part of the Government. While an independent agency of the USG, it's leadership is selected in part by the President and Senate. It is controlled by the Government. As to where all it's funding comes from...I don't know, but it routinely posts loses.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

I grow weary of the persistent myth that under the current HC system there are no waiting lists and anyone can get any treatment they want.

It's totally BS.

There are tons of waiting lists -- those waiting for the financial ability to seek medical care either because of no insurance or insufficient insurance.

There is little choice in treatment even for those with health insurance. Your insurer is the one that decides what doctors and/or treatments it will or will not pay for.

In the U.S. we have world class health care with no waiting lists and no organization determining your treatment options, but only for the small minority that can afford it.

So lie to the people that government will make it universal and "free." Just watch GE and NBC, MNSBC (GE stands to gain huge in electronic medical records management big time, and is the parent company of this empire) -- they will spit out endless propaganda about how great this will be for everyone. I work in one of the top 2% of the hospitals in the nation (and is non-profit.) I dont turn people away who need brain injury services and supports, and break my back to make it happen. In more liberal areas, healthcare is worse -- in part because the government has been interfering longer, and mucking it up. Government telling us how to make it better in the west (from DC of all places?) They dont conduct anything well, they will make our services less effective, and restrict access.

This is the deal -- the government is NOT trying to help anyone -- or promote things that work. Every action (just about since Bush II -- maybe since Teddy R) is about expanding government to create slaves and votes. They want to crush personal rights and independance. This is about taking power and money from the private sector, and ensuring their own government jobs. If you get into trouble, they will "bail you out" but with a million strings attached, so they can never break free from them. DID YOU GUYS HEAR THAT CHRYSLER HAD THERE AD BUDGET in 1/2 by OBAMA!!!!!! Where the hell are we living?

Again, this is not about left and right this is about personal freedoms, which we are collectively loosing sector by sector, state by state. FIGHT IT, where ever you see it , from the right and the left.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

They would be playing God. It already happens today.

My take is that the more local things are kept, the more local folks can influence decisions, and the more effective things will be...

[Bob]

Originally Posted by NaptownChief

Going out and getting a full time job with decent health insurance is obtainable for millions upon millions of non-RICH people.

Are there some hard working quality people that don't have good health insurance? Sure, but by and large if you set your priorities properly in life and just do the bare minimums you can obtain a full time job with decent health insurance. I don't know of a single person in my families over the last three generations that wasn't able to accomplish that and I can assure you that virtually none of them constitute being called rich.

I'm not blind to the fact that some people get a raw deal but by and large people create their own raw deal.

Very well said. What Universal healthcare will do is raise the "affordability" of services for 30% of folks, but the tradeoff (in time) will be to raise the total cost of healthcare for 70% and lower the quality significantly for 100%.

The poor who walk into ER's that are not urban areas (with large percentages of illegal imigrants sapping funds and resources) get world class treatment that 90% of the world cannot get. Hell even non-Americans with no prayer of paying get very good treatment.

The idiots who believe that EVERYONE has better care elsewhere has not received care elsewhere. The idiots who read reports by WHO, that suggests sub-standard care in the US, need to think about what they are measuring, and one weighted factor in their rating was universal access to care, so I guess we were not Socialist enough to rate well?