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Old 05-06-2009, 07:58 AM   #1
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Just take your time comparing college stats on the three fine prospects. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, none of them is a "sure thing" but they all could be great players. Look at the production, and final stats. One of the players has more tackles, and more sacks, in 16 fewer games. He seems like a pretty productive player if he avoids his "off the field" issues.

What 'cha think about these three? What if one cost 10% of what the others cost? Who would you put your money on?

Player A:
Height: 6-3 | Weight: 334 | 40-Time: 5.52


Strengths:
Excellent size and bulk...Very quick off the snap...Great strength...Is stout at the point of attack...Does a terrific job against the run...Gets a good push up the middle...Will collapse the pocket...A powerful tackler...Shows the ability to shoot gaps and penetrate at times...Nice instincts / awareness...Lots of  experience...Improving and has upside.

Weaknesses:
Not a sack artist and repertoire of pass rush moves is limited...Does not always play with proper leverage...Still needs to use his hands better...Will get hung up on blocks...Conditioning and stamina might be issues...Has an inconsistent motor...Didn't face many double teams.

Notes:
Was a three-year starter for the Eagles...Named 2nd Team All-ACC as a senior...Was overshadowed by teammate **** and certainly benefited from playing next to such a talented player but is a fine pro prospect in his own right...The type whose value can't be measured by the stat sheet...Had a great senior campaign and really improved his draft stock...Two-gapper with the potential to be a top 3-4 nose tackle.

Career Totals:
Games Played - 47
Tackles - 85
Tackles For Loss - 23
Sacks - 5.5



Player B:
Height: 6-11/2 | Weight: 337 | 40-Time: 5.13


Strengths:
Outstanding mass and bulk...Excellent strength...Stout at the point of attack...Can fill two gaps...Able to occupy multiple blockers...Tough, powerful and nasty...A beast against the run...Can really collapse the pocket...Able to penetrate and make plays in the backfield...Above average athleticism...Quick and agile...Pursues well and has a burst to close...Good instincts and awareness...Will offer schematic versatility.

Weaknesses:
Conditioning and stamina have been problems...Is shorter than you'd prefer...Maturity and commitment have been questioned...Doesn't always play with proper leverage...Inconsistent and his motor tends to run hot and cold...Is not an elite pass rusher...Struggled to keep up with his studies and intelligence may be an issue..Durability concerns?

Notes:
First name is "Busari"...Father migrated from Nigeria...A three-year starter in the ACC...Named 1st Team All-ACC in 2008...Sat out the 2007 season for academic reasons and redshirted...Was ejected from a game in 2006 for throwing a punch...Missed spring ball in 2008 after undergoing offseason shoulder surgery...Weighed more than 350 pounds at one point but is most effective at 325-330...Potential 3-4 nose tackle but could also fit in a 4-3 scheme...Has the physical tools to be great but intangibles could hold him back and prevent him from maximizing his potential...Had an amazing senior season and showed what  a truly  dominant force he can  be when in  shape and  motivated.

Career Totals:
Games Played - 47
Tackles - 105
Tackles For Loss - 32.5
Sacks - 12.5



Player C:
Height: 6-2 | Weight: 326 | 40-Time: 5.03


Strengths:
Excellent size and bulk...Long arms and big hands...Very athletic with good speed and quickness...Gets off the snap well...Stout at the point of attack...Shows the ability to take on and shed blockers...Gets good penetration...Offers positional and schematic  versatility...Productive.

Weaknesses:
Has run into trouble off-the-field and character is a concern...Average strength and power...Poor stamina...A questionable motor...Marginal instincts and awareness...Is not really a great pass rusher...Not fluid and his range is limited..Dominated a low level of competition in 2008.

Notes:
Began his college career at Penn State...Redshirted in 2005...Worked as a reserve in 2006 before taking over a starting job in 2007...Was arrested twice in 2007 on felony charges in connection with two fights and ultimately dismissed from the Nittany Lion football team...Landed at Hampton and had a fantastic 2008 campaign as a defensive end in the Pirates 3-4 defense, earning 1st Team All-MEAC honors...Opted to enter the NFL Draft after his junior season...Some feel he is a good kid who just got embroiled in a couple of bad situations...Could project to defensive tackle or defensive end and can play in either a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme...Future looked very promising before his college career was derailed...Extremely talented player with the physical tools to excel at the pro level as long as he keep can his head on straight..Boom or Bust.

Career Totals:
Games Played - 31
Tackles - 112
Tackles For Loss - 24.5
Sacks - 13.0
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:08 AM   #2
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Lol, should have deleted the notes section, I was looking forward to guessing who was who
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:16 AM   #3
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11 teams are converting to or running a version of the 3-4... While the NT is probably the most important part of this defense, not one of them felt "Player C" was worth even a compensatory 7th round pick.

I wouldn't get my hopes up...
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:18 AM   #4
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Player C (Baker)'s stats are inflated from his season at HAMPTON. He was above average at PSU. No more, no less.

I'd like to repeat... HAMPTON.

That's all. Thank you. Carry on with the "relevant" stat analysis, lol.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:20 AM   #5
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Yea, I know we're not supposed to talk about Powell because it makes the draft-haters very upset, but I do have a feeling the staff is looking at him as a free mid-round draft picks this year. Physically, he's a nice fit at end, imo... but the word is we'll try him at NT, as well. He'll need a little more bulk.

"Beast against the run" is exactly what we need.

-Ried
-Fields
-Powell
-Thomas
-Baker
-Peterson
-Ayers
-R. Davis

All those guys (and others) will be competing for T H R E E spots on the D-line. Personally, I like our chances of coming away with a good rotation, here.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:22 AM   #6
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Two of those players got their stats in the ACC (With Boston College), one of them got it in FCS (With Hampton).

Here is the reason Player C fell out of the draft:

Weaknesses:Average strength and power...Marginal instincts and awareness

There is not a lot of room for you as a NT if you are weak AND stupid.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Two of those players got their stats in the ACC (With Boston College), one of them got it in FCS (With Hampton).

Here is the reason Player C fell out of the draft:

Weaknesses:Average strength and power...Marginal instincts and awareness

There is not a lot of room for you as a NT if you are weak AND stupid.
Don't forget "gang-banger"
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Yea, I know we're not supposed to talk about Powell because it makes the draft-haters very upset, but I do have a feeling the staff is looking at him as a free mid-round draft picks this year. Physically, he's a nice fit at end, imo... but the word is we'll try him at NT, as well. He'll need a little more bulk.

"Beast against the run" is exactly what we need.

-Ried
-Fields
-Powell
-Thomas
-Baker
-Peterson
-Ayers
-R. Davis


All those guys (and others) will be competing for T H R E E spots on the D-line. Personally, I like our chances of coming away with a good rotation, here.
I decided to bold the people whom no other team wanted and have proven in the NFL that they can't start for teams who have very poor defensive lines (Peterson in Denver, Fields in SF and Reid at DT in Indy).

I made the players who have never taken an NFL snap before blue, since rookies very rarely contribute on the defensive line, I don't think it is fair to expect these players to be full time starters this year and provide a significant upgrader over last year.

I underlined the player who has started in the NFL (Thomas).

It doesn't look that good does it? Of the 8 guys there, 5 of them were either UFAs who got no interest from other teams and signed small contracts with us or UDFAs - a staggering 62.5% of the people Popps want to make an impact on the defensive line are players so bad that no other team made a strong effort to get them. Color me entirely unimpressed.

Last edited by gyldenlove; 05-06-2009 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Yea, I know we're not supposed to talk about Powell because it makes the draft-haters very upset, but I do have a feeling the staff is looking at him as a free mid-round draft picks this year. Physically, he's a nice fit at end, imo... but the word is we'll try him at NT, as well. He'll need a little more bulk.

"Beast against the run" is exactly what we need.

-Ried
-Fields
-Powell
-Thomas
-Baker
-Peterson
-Ayers
-R. Davis

All those guys (and others) will be competing for T H R E E spots on the D-line. Personally, I like our chances of coming away with a good rotation, here.

Is Nic Clemons still on the roster? I wouldn't rule him out, he has the body type to be a 3-4 DE, and (this is a compliment) never looked terrible last year.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:36 AM   #10
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I italicized the players who have never taken an NFL snap before, since rookies very rarely contribute on the defensive line, I don't think it is fair to expect these players to be full time starters this year and provide a significant upgrader over last year.
Just to let you know, everything in a quote gets italicized.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:38 AM   #11
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Is Nic Clemons still on the roster? I wouldn't rule him out, he has the body type to be a 3-4 DE, and (this is a compliment) never looked terrible last year.
I hope so. I'm personally high on Clemons.

Mainly because he wears 93...
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:43 AM   #12
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More Analysis of Player C:

ANALYSIS:

NFLDraftScout.com, TFYDraft.com

Strengths: Adequate build in the upper and lower body. Good quickness off the snap. Gets his hands into his man's jersey quickly, attacks a shoulder and constantly works to the quarterback. Can also extend his arms inside the numbers to get leverage and push into the backfield. Also able to stand up his man on run plays, use his upper-body strength to move him to either side and make a play on the ball. Uses arm-over move and violent hands to shoot the gap inside. Will split double-team blocks to pressure the passer. At end, he held his ground against the run and used his strength, hands and quickness to get by offensive tackles one-on-one. Shows fairly quick feet, can stay off cut blocks, chase down the line and hustle downfield to get to the ball. Doesn't back down from anyone.

Athletic defensive lineman with the ability to be used at several spots upfront. Plays with good pad level, leverage, and is explosive at the point. Possesses good first-step quickness, covers a lot of area on the field, and rarely off his feet. Instinctive, quickly locates the ball, and effectively uses his hands to protect himself. Powerful, gets a lot of push up the field, and is tough to handle. Chases hard to get involved in the action, and plays with a great degree of suddenness, flashing on the scene. Effectively uses his hands, jolts opponents with good punch to get off blocks. Forces the issue, collapsing the pocket or sliding down the line to make plays. Fluid moving about the field. Lined up over right tackle in Hampton's 3-4 alignment last year.

Chris Baker is one of the most intriguing DTs in this draft for me. I think athletically is his a beast, his speed, strength and ability to play both the pass and run makes those who know a lot about him, his size, his production at Hampton and legitimacy by moving to Hampton from a team like Penn State will draw a lot of attention. Baker can stand up and man-handle a lot of OL, does a good job controlling the line of scrimmage and has the burst through the line to create pressure. Any man who is 6'2" tall and weighs 326 lbs. but can still run a 4.94 40 Yard Dash, 35.5 Inch Vertical leap and can play both DT and DE and be effective, is someone who deserves a very close look.

Weaknesses: Could work harder against double teams inside and too often stands around after initial contact. Must improve his awareness on misdirections and screens. Stamina is an issue, will be best as part of a rotation. Showed potential in Happy Valley, but his senior season production came against a lower level of competition at a position he might not play in the NFL. Character issues abound based on his record at Penn State.

Dismissed from the Penn State program after off-the-field issues. Built more like a natural defensive tackle.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:47 AM   #13
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Call me a Kenny P. Homer. I just can not get that 07 Game he had against the Packers out of my head. He comes in off of the street and was an absolute beast in that game. He was in the backfield more than Favre.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:56 AM   #14
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Just a reminder here, that if the defense as a whole improves (safeties and LB's), then we could be pretty decent.

The Dolphins won the AFC East last year and went to the playoffs.

He was their NT situation - was it "loaded" with talent?

NT - Jason Ferguson (6-3, 305), Paul Soliai (6-4,355), Joe Cohen (6-2, 315)

The Dolphins have no long term answer at this position, and that needs to be a priority in this draft because Ferguson's 34, and talking about retirement. A 3-4 defense isn't effective without a nose tackle serving as it's pillar. Soliai made a couple of eye-opening plays last season, but the former fourth-round pick also received two head-scratching suspensions. This is a poop or get off the pot season for him. Having him compete with a youngster with more promise than Cohen, a former Gator who was on the practice squad for much of last season, could be beneficial for the Dolphins, and Soliai. Maybe he needs the heat to be turned up.


Source:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...efensive_line/
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
Just a reminder here, that if the defense as a whole improves (safeties and LB's), then we could be pretty decent.

The Dolphins won the AFC East last year and went to the playoffs.

He was their NT situation - was it "loaded" with talent?

NT - Jason Ferguson (6-3, 305), Paul Soliai (6-4,355), Joe Cohen (6-2, 315)

The Dolphins have no long term answer at this position, and that needs to be a priority in this draft because Ferguson's 34, and talking about retirement. A 3-4 defense isn't effective without a nose tackle serving as it's pillar. Soliai made a couple of eye-opening plays last season, but the former fourth-round pick also received two head-scratching suspensions. This is a poop or get off the pot season for him. Having him compete with a youngster with more promise than Cohen, a former Gator who was on the practice squad for much of last season, could be beneficial for the Dolphins, and Soliai. Maybe he needs the heat to be turned up.


Source:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...efensive_line/
Considering Jason Ferguson was a multi year starter at NT for the Cowboys, they had enough on that position to be competitive. We have (and I can't stress this enough) NOBODY who has ever contributed at NT in the NFL.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:51 AM   #16
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How about Player D?

Player D:
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 370 | 40-Time: 4.9
Bench 475 pounds | Squats 800 pounds.


Pos:

King-sized defender who is a load in the middle of the line. Possesses natural power, takes up a lot of room and easily holds the point. Displays leg drive, pushes opponents up the field and collapses the pocket. Flashes hand technique and a burst of speed.

Neg:

Consistently gets locked up at the point and is slow to shed blocks. Does not always play to his size. Gets tall and makes himself an easy target.
The former Oklahoma State defensive tackle had to transfer down to N' West CC this fall due to grades.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worm View Post
How about Player D?

Player D:
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 370 | 40-Time: 4.9
Bench 475 pounds | Squats 800 pounds.


Pos:

King-sized defender who is a load in the middle of the line. Possesses natural power, takes up a lot of room and easily holds the point. Displays leg drive, pushes opponents up the field and collapses the pocket. Flashes hand technique and a burst of speed.

Neg:

Consistently gets locked up at the point and is slow to shed blocks. Does not always play to his size. Gets tall and makes himself an easy target.
The former Oklahoma State defensive tackle had to transfer down to N' West CC this fall due to grades.
That looks quite a bit like my old dorm.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:05 AM   #18
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That looks quite a bit like my old dorm.
Sweet dorm... you had a little patio area?
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:54 PM   #19
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I decided to bold the people whom no other team wanted and have proven in the NFL that they can't start for teams who have very poor defensive lines (Peterson in Denver, Fields in SF and Reid at DT in Indy)..
Peterson was a regular in our rotation, and probably one of our better performing linemen. He's also a tweener, which didn't make him a particularly good fit in our old system, yet will potentially be a better fit in our new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Reid at DT in Indy)..
Reid played DE, and DT for Indy. He was productive on special teams, as well.
We signed a guy named Bert Berry from Indy a few years back who wasn't a starter. You may recall him.

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I decided to bold Fields
Fields did have starts, but was moved around. Clearly, Nolan sees something in him and he's thought to have some untapped upside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
I made the players who have never taken an NFL snap before blue, since rookies very rarely contribute on the defensive line
'

Really? So, then all of the people around here saying we should draft them are wrong? Which is it?

I guess the Patriots DL full of Pro Bowl caliber players should have never stepped on the field. You know, because they had never taken a snap. They must have been ****. That's pretty much the rule... if a guy hasn't had a snap, he'll never be good.

Quote:
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I don't think it is fair to expect these players to be full time starters this year and provide a significant upgrader over last year.
Anyone with a pulse, or perhaps without... will be a significant upgrade over Engelberger. Simply running 3 down linemen and 4 LBs is an immediate defensive improvement for us if it gets that guy off the field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post

It doesn't look that good does it?
Actually, it looks great.

-The top DE/OLB prospect in the draft.
-The best run-stopping DL of the 08 draft
-A returning start at DT potentially moving to DE, which suits him better.
-An undersized DE moving to OLB, where his skills will be better utilized
-A player Nolan targeted as a quality run-stopper and a guy familiar with starting in his system.
-Several other intriguing prospects among FA/Draft picks
-The off-season isn't over yet

Oh, and a coordinator that knows what the **** he's doing.

Is it all candy and unicorns? No. But, it's a start... and a good one, as far as I can see. Every single position in the front seven will be addressed. Until we see how this comes together, I'm not sure how people can deem it a failure.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #20
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Just talked to Carlton on fb and he said that at camp he was playing both DE and NT. Fields is helping a lot since he has already been under Nolan. He enjoyed camp and thought it went well. I wished him well and that we hope he stays healthy. Its not much but just some lil tid bits about a d-lineman.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:36 PM   #21
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Just talked to Carlton on fb and he said that at camp he was playing both DE and NT. Fields is helping a lot since he has already been under Nolan. He enjoyed camp and thought it went well. I wished him well and that we hope he stays healthy. Its not much but just some lil tid bits about a d-lineman.
Cool as hell!

Powell is a little undersized for NT, but his strong-point was plugging the run. Maybe he can beef up a bit and work out. I think at minimum, he's an interesting DE prospect on running downs.

Keep in mind... Fields, Powell and LB Andra Davis are all known as run-stoppers more than anything else. I'm thinking these guys are going to help make a big difference.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:44 PM   #22
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Cool as hell!

Powell is a little undersized for NT, but his strong-point was plugging the run. Maybe he can beef up a bit and work out. I think at minimum, he's an interesting DE prospect on running downs.

Keep in mind... Fields, Powell and LB Andra Davis are all known as run-stoppers more than anything else. I'm thinking these guys are going to help make a big difference.
Yeah he talked about how the coaches liked his runstopping ability. Didn't say anything about getting bigger, but I guess I didn't ask either.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:48 PM   #23
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Of course if Baker had been drafted in say the 5th round, that would have made some believe it was a great draft since they would have taken a NT/DT.
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