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Old 05-05-2009, 02:24 AM   #1
Hulamau
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Default Excellent take as Klis sets a Numbskull straight

Klis gives a very good response to a guy clearly not seeing the big picture


Disgust with draft spurs Walter from Colo. Springs to spurn season tickets

By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 05/05/2009 12:30:27 AM MDT


First of all, with the defense broken and the offense fine, Josh McDaniels runs off the Pro Bowl quarterback. Then McDaniels stockpiles running backs through free agency. We give him a B-plus for that. Brian Dawkins is a good move; give him an A for that. Then it's draft weekend. Glaring need: D-line. So McDaniels ... drafts six out of 10 on offense! And zero on D-line. Yes, he got some good players. Knowshon Moreno will be good right away. But what's the plan for defensive line? I cancelled my season tickets. ( great news! one more ticket of the rest of us!)
-- Walter Friend, Colorado Springs


Walter - If I'm following your train of thought, did you just cancel your season tickets because the Broncos didn't select Peria Jerry or Ron Brace? It's a discerning group, Bronco fans.

So long as we don't lose you from this mailbag, Walter, I don't care what you do with your entertainment dollar. But if they instituted a new policy where I'd have to pay for my press pass this year, I'd get more bang watching Moreno run than Brace plugging a two-gap. But that's me.

Here's the deal about the D-line: Yes, the Broncos were hoping to take nose tackle B.J. Raji or defensive end Tyson Jackson with their No. 12 overall draft pick. But both were gone -- Kansas City is confronting a $24 million guarantee to a D-end in Jackson whose forte isn't rushing the passer -- and there wasn't another player at those positions, in the Broncos' opinion, who was considered a franchise-type player. And for the
money the No. 12 pick gets, he better make an immediate impact.


The Broncos did address their front seven with their No. 18 pick in Robert Ayers. They liked Ayers slightly better than Aaron Maybin, who Buffalo took at No. 11; Brian Orakpo, who Washington took at No. 13; and Larry English, who the Chargers took at No. 16. It will be interesting to see who emerges as the best of that DE/OLB foursome.

From there, the Broncos liked the D-linemen they already have -- Kenny Peterson is a former third-round pick; Marcus Thomas, Matthias Askew and Ryan McBean were fourth-rounders; Carlton Powell was a fifth rounder -- more than anyone they could have taken from the fourth round on for their 3-4 system. That group is bigger than the Broncos' D-linemen of years past. And it won't take much for them to be better.

One more thing, Walter, as you consider watching the Broncos from the comforts of home: They will be immeasurably improved in their secondary this year. I know Bronco fans haven't seen much of it aside from Champ Bailey the past two years, but safeties and cornerbacks are supposed to tackle running backs.

I thought the team's biggest weakness the past two years was its safety play. They now have two good ones in Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill, and they took Darcel McBath in the second round. The defensive line wouldn't look so bad if some of those 30-yard runs were only 5-yard runs.


The Broncos were 30th in defensive scoring last year; 28th in 2007. The
2009 defense can do better merely by showing up. Here's my first prediction of the year: With their new 3-4 system, the Broncos will finish somewhere inside the top 25 in scoring defense this year. (That's a safe bet Klis :-)

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Old 05-05-2009, 02:38 AM   #2
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Who the hell is Ryan Mcbean? Askew?
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:44 AM   #3
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Mcbean was a rookie last yr right? practice squad, 290 pound end.

Askew came from cinci, is a 300 pound DT who hasn't played much in 3 yrs in NFL.

Both big strong guys Broncos will try at Dend in a 3-4 and see if they play the 4 or 5 technique lined up over or str8 up on the OT.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:07 AM   #4
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So.. he predicts that we'll still rank in the bottom third defensively? Nice guess Einstein. We still aren't gonna have a pass rush.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:15 AM   #5
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So.. he predicts that we'll still rank in the bottom third defensively? Nice guess Einstein. We still aren't gonna have a pass rush.
You don't think Doom and Ayers can get some outside pressure? Doom I think last yr struggled because of the broken hand and Ayers from the Senior bowl practice stuff I heard about seems like he can beat people 1 on 1. Supposedly he was schooling Oher who was a first round pick.

Don't go writing us off so quickly.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:33 AM   #6
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So.. he predicts that we'll still rank in the bottom third defensively? Nice guess Einstein. We still aren't gonna have a pass rush.
Great insight Blue Flame! .. "we aren't going to have a pass rush" . .granted Klis was being highly conservative in his prediction, almost tongue in cheek!

Anyway I'm beginning to see your logic ... Lets see ... Ayers is obviously a bust and what a waste of a first round pick .. just like Moreno with Hillis with Graham and Quinn and that 'one year wonder' of a O-line sure to flame out .. who cares if they help elevate our scoring production from 16th to the top 5 and vastly improves the red zone success as well as keeps our defense off the field and the other teams D on the field an extra 5 to 10 minutes a game!

And what is McD and Nolan thinking that guys like Doom and Reid as well as Ayers might improve our pass rush from the OLB, and with the versatility to slide in when required? And look at this train wreck of a front three with Thomas in his third year and now that fat ass Chris Baker ,,, Gee he was accused of beating up some poor guy a couple years ago (though no proof was ever made) and even though hes been a model citizen the past year and a half and played well as a solid run-stuffing DT of NT proportions, we are certainly lost with him at NT.

McD is a joke thinking a marine like Rulon "Jones' Davis and Everett P will ever amount to anything. And we KNOW Kenny Peterson is a bust as well! Not to mention that chump Carlton Powell who set NCAA all time college record for least amount of yards against him by any running back his last year at Clemson with something like 'Minus 12 yrds rushing' on the season! So Yes I'm with you blue flame we're SUNK!

Look at the ridiculous coaches they have too. Nolan, Nunnely, Martindale, Donnatel etc. none of which has EVER had a lick of success in the 3-4 as a DC or position coach, obviously! What could McD have been thinking the little 33 year old incompetent TWERP!

And these LBs ,Talk about a sick joke! Is it too late to dump DJ, Andra Davis as well as Woodyard and Larsen in year two? Also, Griesen who knows nothing at all of 3-4 work either. And this UDFA Johnson kid ... another Bust for sure.

But the thing that gets me is the outrage to think adding Ayers and Doom as rush guys from the OLB spot as well might ever result in a few more sacks and pressures than the past two years! What morons!

And lets not even talk about the secondary, and how pathetic they are going to be Tjesus! Don't get me started there!

Come to think of it, now that I see the light like some of you doom and gloomers, I'm only sad I don't have season tickets myself, just so I could turn mine into Bowlen's office by Fed Express registered delivery in protest at this absolute Farce!

Man. Shanny and Slowik must be laughing their asses off! HaHaha!

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Old 05-05-2009, 04:56 AM   #7
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You don't think Doom and Ayers can get some outside pressure? Doom I think last yr struggled because of the broken hand and Ayers from the Senior bowl practice stuff I heard about seems like he can beat people 1 on 1. Supposedly he was schooling Oher who was a first round pick.

Don't go writing us off so quickly.
Ayers schooled everyone at the senior bowl. If he seriously plays like that on Sundays he'll be all world out of the gate.

I think the biggest problem Doom had last year was the defensive coaches trying to use him as an every down DE, including trying to have him stuff the run. The guy just can't handle it and it left him too tired to be effective on pass rushing downs.

He's got good pass rush skills and I think he'll be a great fit for the 3-4 OLB job Nolan looks to be fitting him into. In some ways though I'm more looking forward to when we run a 4-3 front with Dumervil at RDE, Ayers at LDE, Thomas at UT, and Powell or Fields at NT. That could be a surprisingly effective line.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:21 AM   #8
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Great insight Blue Flame! .. "we aren't going to have a pass rush" . .granted Klis was being highly conservative in his prediction, almost tongue in cheek!

Anyway I'm beginning to see your logic ... Lets see ... Ayers is obviously a bust and what a waste of a first round pick .. just like Moreno with Hillis with Graham and Quinn and that 'one year wonder' of a O-line sure to flame out .. who cares if they help elevate our scoring production from 16th to the top 5 and vastly improves the red zone success as well as keeps our defense off the field and the other teams D on the field an extra 5 to 10 minutes a game!

And what is McD and Nolan thinking that guys like Doom and Reid as well as Ayers might improve our pass rush from the OLB, and with the versatility to slide in when required? And look at this train wreck of a front three with Thomas in his third year and now that fat ass Chris Baker ,,, Gee he was accused of beating up some poor guy a couple years ago (though no proof was ever made) and even though hes been a model citizen the past year and a half and played well as a solid run-stuffing DT of NT proportions, we are certainly lost with him at NT.

McD is a joke thinking a marine like Rulon "Jones' Davis and Everett P will ever amount to anything. And we KNOW Kenny Peterson is a bust as well! Not to mention that chump Carlton Powell who set NCAA all time college record for least amount of yards against him by any running back his last year at Clemson with something like 'Minus 12 yrds rushing' on the season! So Yes I'm with you blue flame we're SUNK!

Look at the ridiculous coaches they have too. Nolan, Nunnely, Martindale, Donnatel etc. none of which has EVER had a lick of success in the 3-4 as a DC or position coach, obviously! What could McD have been thinking the little 33 year old incompetent TWERP!

And these LBs ,Talk about a sick joke! Is it too late to dump DJ, Andra Davis as well as Woodyard and Larsen in year two? Also, Griesen who knows nothing at all of 3-4 work either. And this UDFA Johnson kid ... another Bust for sure.

But the thing that gets me is the outrage to think adding Ayers and Doom as rush guys from the OLB spot as well might ever result in a few more sacks and pressures than the past two years! What morons!

And lets not even talk about the secondary, and how pathetic they are going to be Tjesus! Don't get me started there!

Come to think of it, now that I see the light like some of you doom and gloomers, I'm only sad I don't have season tickets myself, just so I could turn mine into Bowlen's office by Fed Express registered delivery in protest at this absolute Farce!

Man. Shanny and Slowik must be laughing their asses off! HaHaha!

When you're going out of your way to be a smart ass to "try" and put somebody in their place, it's usually wise to know the players you're talking about. I mean, considering that Powell has done NOTHING in the NFL thus far making his college production all you can use, you would think that if you really knew something about the kid you would know what college he went to.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:29 AM   #9
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When you're going out of your way to be a smart ass to "try" and put somebody in their place, it's usually wise to know the players you're talking about. I mean, considering that Powell has done NOTHING in the NFL thus far making his college production all you can use, you would think that if you really knew something about the kid you would know what college he went to.
That's as bad as the Baker "no proof" comment.

I mean, there was absolutely no proof... aside from the guy he beat mercilessly with a stool and the dozens of people that saw them force their way into his room and then witness the beating...

Other than that... no proof!
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:29 AM   #10
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Ayers schooled everyone at the senior bowl. If he seriously plays like that on Sundays he'll be all world out of the gate.

I think the biggest problem Doom had last year was the defensive coaches trying to use him as an every down DE, including trying to have him stuff the run. The guy just can't handle it and it left him too tired to be effective on pass rushing downs.

He's got good pass rush skills and I think he'll be a great fit for the 3-4 OLB job Nolan looks to be fitting him into. In some ways though I'm more looking forward to when we run a 4-3 front with Dumervil at RDE, Ayers at LDE, Thomas at UT, and Powell or Fields at NT. That could be a surprisingly effective line.
Man, and the hits keep on coming by Drek. Nice post as always. Actually makes me feel a little better about Ayers. I confess I haven't watched much of him the last two years. I did see plenty of him in the Sr. Bowl and thought he looked like a prospect. But then I go back to thinking about the "book" on guys like Albert Haynesworth and this whole contract year thing. Essentially, that is what Ayers did the last month of his Sr. year and then the Sr. Bowl. But then you throw in this interesting perspective that I'd guess is right on... If I understood you correctly, his sack numbers weren't what they could have been b/c he was always gassed. To me, that is good news b/c his conditioning is going to get A LOT better. His coaching is going to get better as well. That gives me a lot of hope Drek, I hope I understood you correctly, and I hope you're right.

btw Huma, I agreed with everything you were posting. But it wasn't really necessary to be a smart ass about it. You made a lot of good points, why make the intended target (Blue) go defensive b/c of sarcasm? She won't even see the message b/c the delivery sucks (I'm guilty of it too at times, just pointing it out to you as others have so graciously done for me ). Again, I think we have a lot of promise. Not sure if it will pan out, but as my good buddy Popps pointed out, We are already improved on defense by the mere addition/subtraction of Mike Nolan/Bob Slowick.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:32 AM   #11
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That's as bad as the Baker "no proof" comment.

I mean, there was absolutely no proof... aside from the guy he beat mercilessly with a stool and the dozens of people that saw them force their way into his room and then witness the beating...

Other than that... no proof!
They already said he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's akin to a lot of people voting for Obama. Had they not happened to wonder by the polls at the wrong time, he wouldn't be a president... Okay poor analogy. It's still early and I'm only half way thru my first cup'o'joe.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:44 AM   #12
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I've noticed Ayers is wearing #56 - Wilson's old number. I guess he won't be playing DE, then.

Of course, I've seen people switch numbers and positions coming out of camp before.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:50 AM   #13
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I've noticed Ayers is wearing #56 - Wilson's old number. I guess he won't be playing DE, then.

Of course, I've seen people switch numbers and positions coming out of camp before.
That doesn't prevent him from playing on the line, it allows him the flexibility to do both, though.

Hopefully Ayers lives up to the number.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:51 AM   #14
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You don't think Doom and Ayers can get some outside pressure? Doom I think last yr struggled because of the broken hand and Ayers from the Senior bowl practice stuff I heard about seems like he can beat people 1 on 1. Supposedly he was schooling Oher who was a first round pick.

Don't go writing us off so quickly.
Not only that, but he really took it to Andre Smith of Alabama in that game. I like Ayers explosive step, this guy reminds me of the KC version of Neil Smith.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:57 AM   #15
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I've noticed Ayers is wearing #56 - Wilson's old number. I guess he won't be playing DE, then.

Of course, I've seen people switch numbers and positions coming out of camp before.
Defensive ends can wear numbers in the 50's if I'm not mistake. Hugh Douglas always wore a number in the 50's.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:58 AM   #16
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Everyone i have read keeps pigeon holeing ayers as a WOLB which i just dont see3 happening i think they got there SOLB and i am really happy about it. i wish crowder had come on. oh well
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:58 AM   #17
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I've noticed Ayers is wearing #56 - Wilson's old number. I guess he won't be playing DE, then.

Of course, I've seen people switch numbers and positions coming out of camp before.
Is there some rule that says a LB that wears #56 can put his hand in the dirt on the DL... or that a DL that wear's #99 can't stand up and line up at OLB (or safety or CB for that matter)? Not sure where you are coming from?
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:19 AM   #18
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Great insight Blue Flame! .. "we aren't going to have a pass rush" . .granted Klis was being highly conservative in his prediction, almost tongue in cheek!

Anyway I'm beginning to see your logic ... Lets see ... Ayers is obviously a bust and what a waste of a first round pick .. just like Moreno with Hillis with Graham and Quinn and that 'one year wonder' of a O-line sure to flame out .. who cares if they help elevate our scoring production from 16th to the top 5 and vastly improves the red zone success as well as keeps our defense off the field and the other teams D on the field an extra 5 to 10 minutes a game!

And what is McD and Nolan thinking that guys like Doom and Reid as well as Ayers might improve our pass rush from the OLB, and with the versatility to slide in when required? And look at this train wreck of a front three with Thomas in his third year and now that fat ass Chris Baker ,,, Gee he was accused of beating up some poor guy a couple years ago (though no proof was ever made) and even though hes been a model citizen the past year and a half and played well as a solid run-stuffing DT of NT proportions, we are certainly lost with him at NT.

McD is a joke thinking a marine like Rulon "Jones' Davis and Everett P will ever amount to anything. And we KNOW Kenny Peterson is a bust as well! Not to mention that chump Carlton Powell who set NCAA all time college record for least amount of yards against him by any running back his last year at Clemson with something like 'Minus 12 yrds rushing' on the season! So Yes I'm with you blue flame we're SUNK!

Look at the ridiculous coaches they have too. Nolan, Nunnely, Martindale, Donnatel etc. none of which has EVER had a lick of success in the 3-4 as a DC or position coach, obviously! What could McD have been thinking the little 33 year old incompetent TWERP!

And these LBs ,Talk about a sick joke! Is it too late to dump DJ, Andra Davis as well as Woodyard and Larsen in year two? Also, Griesen who knows nothing at all of 3-4 work either. And this UDFA Johnson kid ... another Bust for sure.

But the thing that gets me is the outrage to think adding Ayers and Doom as rush guys from the OLB spot as well might ever result in a few more sacks and pressures than the past two years! What morons!

And lets not even talk about the secondary, and how pathetic they are going to be Tjesus! Don't get me started there!

Come to think of it, now that I see the light like some of you doom and gloomers, I'm only sad I don't have season tickets myself, just so I could turn mine into Bowlen's office by Fed Express registered delivery in protest at this absolute Farce!

Man. Shanny and Slowik must be laughing their asses off! HaHaha!


FRIGGIN' OWNED!!!!!!!
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:31 AM   #19
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I wish all you naysayers would wait until the season starts before saying "I told you so" or whining. We don't know what we have til we see the whole team. One man will not a team make. You know that!

Personnally, I am giving McCoach a shot and let's see what he can do with this group, this year.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:31 AM   #20
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It's hard to imagine the defense not being better. I think just adding Nolan to run it makes it better just doing that, not to mention the other moves made.

Ayers and Dumervil will need to be the pass rush guys and the others when given blitz opportunities. Stopping the run of course is key for any defense and they haven't done well there either.

Giving up big plays has also hurt, not to mention not able to get off the field and allowing too many 3rd down conversions. And not creating turnovers either. They have ranked at or near the bottom in that category for awhile now.

Hmm, not stopping the run, no pass rush, too many 3rd down conversions, losing the battle of field position most games since the defense can't get many 3 plays and punt, giving up long runs or passes, and not creating turnovers and this being a pattern for a few years now. Yet some are shocked the defensive staff needed replacing? Ok.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:40 AM   #21
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I have been saying for the longest time that you can draft DL all over the place, even Elite DL prospects, but they very very rarely give you any production the first year or two. If this draft was weak on DL and the Elite ones are gone, draft else where. You can not force square pegs into round holes, and blanket drafting at a position doesn't work either. We are going to be bigger on the front 7 this year, and if one or 2 of the UDFA DLineman pan out to be solid starters than we killed it this draft.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:45 AM   #22
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In some ways though I'm more looking forward to when we run a 4-3 front with Dumervil at RDE, Ayers at LDE, Thomas at UT, and Powell or Fields at NT. That could be a surprisingly effective line.

I have been thinking the same. We actually have a lot of the parts that we've needed all along to be a good 4-3 defense this year. I mean, Shanahan had been building towards it, most accentuated by our 2006 draft, but also his player acquisitions along the lines have been mostly retained by McD.

McD coming in has been great in terms of his deconstruction of the defensive roster, what with letting six of our "starters" walk.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:04 AM   #23
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You don't think Doom and Ayers can get some outside pressure? Doom I think last yr struggled because of the broken hand and Ayers from the Senior bowl practice stuff I heard about seems like he can beat people 1 on 1. Supposedly he was schooling Oher who was a first round pick.

Don't go writing us off so quickly.
Doom is a major liability when teams run at his side
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:17 AM   #24
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Ya what a numbskull thinking that a UDFA is a sure fire answer to our DL woes..

idiot! Doesnt he know that UDFA are all Rod Smith look a likes. sheesh
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:20 AM   #25
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Is there some rule that says a LB that wears #56 can put his hand in the dirt on the DL... or that a DL that wear's #99 can't stand up and line up at OLB (or safety or CB for that matter)? Not sure where you are coming from?
There's a rule concerning a players number and what position they play.

Granted, a DE can pull out and a LB can go down.

But still - not too many DEs wearing 50's numbers, so I took that as a hint that Ayers would be playing LB.

Of course, I remember Dwane Carswell who switched between RT and Tight End... when he was our reserve tackle, but saw a lot of playing time in the Tight End slot. He had to check in with the refs first, though.
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