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Old 05-01-2009, 09:42 PM   #1
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Default One of the better Knowshon Highlight Films

Great balance, strength and agility

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Old 05-01-2009, 10:03 PM   #2
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This one aint too bad either

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Old 05-01-2009, 10:14 PM   #3
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One thing that I keep seeing in these videos is Moreno is the master of angles down the field. I don't think that Moreno is going to be all that successfull in single back sets. I think he might be at his best with a fullback in front since he doesn't have break away speed, or the mass to move the pile.

If on the other hand he can break past the line, his control of angles gets much better. Especially if he has a full back he can use to mask off part of the field.

Hillis is going to be Moreno's best friend.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:17 PM   #4
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he needs to learn to run less upright. he took some hellacious hits in that second video because of his upright running style.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by rovolution View Post
he needs to learn to run less upright. he took some hellacious hits in that second video because of his upright running style.
I only see two "hellacious" hits in the second video. It seemed he gave more hits than he received. I might have missed some though.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:48 PM   #6
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He'll no doubt earn some tough yards for the Broncos.

Those that expect him to come in and churn out 1500 yards here should temper their expectations. He will be splitting time with other backs.

The thing that disappoints me about Moreno is that he doesnt have NFL-level separation speed. He uses angles well and is very fast in the wash and through to the second-level, but he'll have a hard time breaking the long TD. He isnt explosive like Adrian Peterson, but he's only a little bit slower than Ladanian Tomlinson was in his prime.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:13 PM   #7
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Again, I'd go out on a limb and say that less than half of the elite RBs in NFL history have truly elite track-speed.

Here's a list I pulled off of another board. So, I can vouch for its accuracy, but I wouldn't doubt it, by looking...

1. Emmitt Smith - 17,403 ...............4.7
2. Walter Payton - 16,726 ...............4.6
3. Barry Sanders - 15,269 ................4.3
4. Eric Dickerson - 13,259................4.5
5. Tony Dorsett - 12,739 ...................4.5
6. Jerome Bettis - 12,353..................4.5
7. Jim Brown - 12,312......................4.4
8. Marcus Allen - 12,243...................4.6
9. Franco Harris - 12,120..................4.7
10. Thurman Thomas - 12,074.........4.3


Add in our on Terrell Davis, and dozens of other greats... and I don't think you'll find too many track stars on the list.

Great running backs are all about vision and angles. Again, TD being one of the most obvious examples. Vision: do you see where you need to go? Angles: can you quickly and decisively take the most effective angle when being pursued?

Watch Moreno's decision making on the fly. Given, these are highlights... so his bad runs aren't included, but judging by these, he's got superior vision and has that inane ability to take proper angles.

Why do you think it is the kid never seems to get caught from behind? How does he snap off so many 20-30 yard runs without elite speed? Because he's a true, instinctual runner.

A counter-example to this (imo) would be Chris Johnson. He's almost all pure-speed, and actually doesn't look that instinctual when he runs. But, he's so blazingly fast, he's effective. But, I still wouldn't put him in even the elite class of running back NOW, much less all-time.

People get way too caught up in 40 yard dash times when grading these RBs. It means very little, and Moreno will be busting off plenty of long runs because he's a true, instinctual running back.

Watch the 2nd video posted above at 1:02. Pretty vanilla looking run, but watch how quickly he gets up behind his blockers, gets lost in the crowd and has 10 yards before you know it, then kicks it into his extra gear to rip off a few more yards.

Then, the next play, he seems to be snuffed out by a DT, but fires outside and turns it into a nice gain. (And cracks someone's head to finish it off.)

He's got burst and knows where to go. That trumps pure speed for NFL backs. Plus, he's not exactly slow when in the open field.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:23 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=McSkillet;2405993]He'll no doubt earn some tough yards for the Broncos.

Those that expect him to come in and churn out 1500 yards here should temper their expectations. He will be splitting time with other backs.

The thing that disappoints me about Moreno is that he doesnt have NFL-level separation speed. He uses angles well and is very fast in the wash and through to the second-level, but he'll have a hard time breaking the long TD. He isnt explosive like Adrian Peterson, but he's only a little bit slower than Ladanian Tomlinson was in his prime.[/QUOTE




T.D. didn't have "NFL- separation speed", and somehow he managed to do ok. He took two straight to the house against Dallas, and deon knew he was fast enough not to really even try once TD got even (ten yards to the side) or behind him. That was at 60 yd. + if I am not too far off. Knowshon seems to have a real good burst, and is faster than TD, from everything I have read. Gaston Green had really good burst, probably one of the best of any Bronco RB, and I wouldn't consider him a great back. All of KM's abilities outweigh his so called lack of "seperation speed" . IMHO.

Last edited by Jason7730; 05-01-2009 at 11:50 PM..
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:26 PM   #9
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Tough hits? I only saw one moster shot he took and it had nothing to do with running high. He came out of a move where he broke a tackle and was exposed to the shot.

In both those videos, Moreno is usually the one initiating contact and he don't go backwards at all.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:58 PM   #10
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Boy that cut @ 5:55. WOW!!
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Old 05-02-2009, 01:54 AM   #11
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He throws a nice fade too
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:14 AM   #12
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He throws a nice fade too
Lol, everyone thinking we didn't focus on QB too!
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Old 05-02-2009, 04:18 AM   #13
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the guy is a freak...

i'd watch the constant trying to jump over defenders though, as sweet as it looks, one shot to the ribs and he's hurtin'..

it's going to be fun watching him on Sundays....
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:56 AM   #14
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he needs to learn to run less upright. he took some hellacious hits in that second video because of his upright running style.
I have to agree. I love Moreno as a person and what he looks like as a team player. Versatility? He has it. Josh is right... he can block, run, and catch.

The thing that scares me though is his running style. He dances a lot which by itself is a recipe for disaster on the next level. He also has this upright lean which is going to get him killed against NFL head hunters. I wouldn't have a problem with speed if not for the first two issues listed. Add in the fact that his frame has no more room to add bulk, I think we should all temper our expectations. He will also have a huge issue hitting the corners in the NFL. His lack of speed is apparent. He will have to master the art of running between the tackles IMO.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:10 AM   #15
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Again, I'd go out on a limb and say that less than half of the elite RBs in NFL history have truly elite track-speed.

Here's a list I pulled off of another board. So, I can vouch for its accuracy, but I wouldn't doubt it, by looking...

1. Emmitt Smith - 17,403 ...............4.7 and 5'9 #215
2. Walter Payton - 16,726 ...............4.6 and 5'10 #200
3. Barry Sanders - 15,269 ................4.3 and 5'8 #203
4. Eric Dickerson - 13,259................4.5 and 6'3 #220
5. Tony Dorsett - 12,739 ...................4.5 and 5'11 #195
6. Jerome Bettis - 12,353..................4.5 and big 5'11 #255
7. Jim Brown - 12,312......................4.4 and big too 6'2 #235
8. Marcus Allen - 12,243...................4.6 6'2 and #210
9. Franco Harris - 12,120..................4.7 6'2 and #230
10. Thurman Thomas - 12,074.........4.3 5'10 and #200

There are a lot of things to consider. At 215 lbs Knowshon is right in the middle of this group in terms of size. Emmitt Smith's game is similar but I think Knowshon is a lot more athletic. How many people watched Moreno in college and thought he was plenty fast? In fact, I'd always kind of laugh when the announcers would talk about his speed, or lack of it rather. Pretty simple to understand really. Most fast runners (with obvious exceptions) are long striders. Long striders find it more difficult to change direction and find the opening to use that speed. When you get a guy with short choppy steps that can still hit that extra gear you usually end up with a very dynamic playmaker. Guys that immediately come to mind are Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, Noel Divine, Percy Harvin and Trindon Holliday.

Speaking of Holliday. Here is a video of him running the 100 for LSU. This was the 2007 SEC Championships... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yjwnZx-_BY

Now in pads... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-O-4...eature=related

Problem with these guys... All go down easily. But the speed is fun to watch.

Michael Bennett was rumored to have run a 4.19 while at Wisconsin. He is the only one (that I know of) to have run a sub 10 second 100m. Jeff Dempsey at UF ran a 10.01 and Holiday a 10.02 best. The SEC Outdoor Championship in 2007 was a 10.08 into the wind.

I equate these guys to a QB with a strong cannon arm. It's not always effective, but it sure is fun to watch.

Knowshon Moreno won't soon be confused for one of these speed guys, but b/c he understands his speed he is as effective as anyone in the country. He can't outrun everyone which has forced him to focus on being illusive. Timely cuts, spins, stiff arms, and even hurdles are all part of his repertoire. And of course his intensity is contagious. He is a team leader and it wouldn't be surprising to me if he took on that role very early in his career... like by the end of his rookie campaign.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
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1. Emmitt Smith - 17,403 ...............4.7
2. Walter Payton - 16,726 ...............4.6
3. Barry Sanders - 15,269 ................4.3
4. Eric Dickerson - 13,259................4.5
5. Tony Dorsett - 12,739 ...................4.5
6. Jerome Bettis - 12,353..................4.5
7. Jim Brown - 12,312......................4.4
8. Marcus Allen - 12,243...................4.6
9. Franco Harris - 12,120..................4.7
10. Thurman Thomas - 12,074.........4.3

40 times are the most over-hyped criterion of all time...

Neither Thurman or Barry Sanders were burners, but they ran a 4.3?...

Yet Marcus Allen & Tony Dorsett could flat out fly and that ran 4.6 & 4.5?...

no RB was faster than E.D. but he runs the same time as the Bus?...
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:18 AM   #17
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This one aint too bad either

Watch at the 3:55 mark. He gets plenty low when he has too.

Also, one of those big hits he took in this video was from Eric Berry who is considered a better prospect than Taylor Mays. Berry is a big time player who levels a lot of guys. If he runs a sub 4.5 40 he'll be a top 10 pick and could work his way into the top 5. Moreno taking a big time shot from a guy like that is not a big deal to me. That he got up (eventually) was a bigger deal. lol
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:20 AM   #18
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40 times are the most over-hyped criterion of all time...

Neither Thurman or Barry Sanders were burners, but they ran a 4.3?...

Yet Marcus Allen & Tony Dorsett could flat out fly and that ran 4.6 & 4.5?...

no RB was faster than E.D. but he runs the same time as the Bus?...

Exactly. You also have to consider that these guys speed in pads is likely better than a 190# CB that was a 4.4 but doesn't have the same strength of a RB. That is why you see guys like Mike Anderson (another 4.6 guy) out run a guy like Shawn Springs (a 4.3 guy).
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:08 AM   #19
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I have to agree. I love Moreno as a person and what he looks like as a team player. Versatility? He has it. Josh is right... he can block, run, and catch.

The thing that scares me though is his running style. He dances a lot which by itself is a recipe for disaster on the next level. He also has this upright lean which is going to get him killed against NFL head hunters. I wouldn't have a problem with speed if not for the first two issues listed. Add in the fact that his frame has no more room to add bulk, I think we should all temper our expectations. He will also have a huge issue hitting the corners in the NFL. His lack of speed is apparent. He will have to master the art of running between the tackles IMO.
He has a decent frame right now, but a running back by nature absorbs alot of punishment.

As far as speed goes, he's plenty fast into the line and through the wash, but he had trouble out-pacing the secondary in college. Secondaries in the NFL are much faster and take much better angles. Its a different world.

People should also throw the "Bronco Way" that they have come to know and love in the trash and consider what Moreno would be like as a Patriot. The old Bronco run game is gone...never to return. that era is over. It was a hallmark of our former coach, and even though McD is paying lip service to it, his offense is so different that you shouldnt expect enough of the old Bronco ground attack to remain to be able to tell a difference. Most of that stuff was predicated off of play action and boots anyway, and were going to see more of a spread.

People used to think of run game success and think "Denver Broncos"...thats not the case anymore.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:11 AM   #20
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He has a decent frame right now, but a running back by nature absorbs alot of punishment.

As far as speed goes, he's plenty fast into the line and through the wash, but he had trouble out-pacing the secondary in college. Secondaries in the NFL are much faster and take much better angles. Its a different world.

People should also throw the "Bronco Way" that they have come to know and love in the trash and consider what Moreno would be like as a Patriot. The old Bronco run game is gone...never to return. that era is over. It was a hallmark of our former coach, and even though McD is paying lip service to it, his offense is so different that you shouldnt expect enough of the old Bronco ground attack to remain to be able to tell a difference. Most of that stuff was predicated off of play action and boots anyway, and were going to see more of a spread.

People used to think of run game success and think "Denver Broncos"...thats not the case anymore.

Actually you're going to see some of the good ole Broncos run game along with some of the good from the Patriots run game. It will be a very nice mix so quit being a little biatch.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:16 AM   #21
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Im really starting to come around on this pick......I really cant wait to see him in orange and blue and tear it up. Hillis and Moreno are going to be sick to watch!
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:18 AM   #22
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Actually you're going to see some of the good ole Broncos run game along with some of the good from the Patriots run game. It will be a very nice mix so quit being a little biatch.

We'll see.

Quit whining every time someone has an opinion different than yours.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:29 AM   #23
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He really likes to dance.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:51 AM   #24
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:58 AM   #25
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lol...that is hilarious Heav...

great find...
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