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Old 04-29-2009, 02:56 PM   #1
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Default Why trading the Bears 2010 1st Rounder for Julius Peppers Makes Sense

Why it makes sense for the Broncos:

1. It fills a need.
The Broncos have made some nice moves through free agency and the draft to improve their team, there's no doubt in my mind about that. But the most glaring weakness remains our front seven. Now granted he is not the nose tackle we desperately need. But he would be a significant upgrade at a position of weakness. Peppers as a athletic beast and I believe he would have the athleticism to make the transition standing up. He also has the speed to cover tight ends. We already know how much of a weapon he is as a pass rusher.

2. It makes us much better this year
McDaniels wants to win now, this move certainly works toward that. We will also have about 9 million in cap room after we sign our rookies so it would appear we have the clout to pull it off if Bowlen would approve. Peppers has also long been rumored to have interest in the Broncos.

3. It appears we will be running a 4-3/3-4 hybrid this year
With no real answer at nose tackle, it would appear that we need to run some 4-3 this year as well. Peppers would certainly be a huge weapon in that scheme that is obvious. Ayers would be the perfect RDE compliment to him in a 4-3 as well.

4. It makes the value for Alphonso Smith trade much better
A first next year has the value of a 2nd this year. It is also the Bears first round pick, likely to fall somewhere in the 20's. One thing this also does is make that Alphonso Smith trade look that much better. For one, it will certainly make us better this year which would make our first rounder a lower pick. It would also make our other moves in free agency better. With a stronger pass rush, all those upgrades we made in the secondary will be more strongly highlighted. After this move our 1st round pick would also likely be in the 20's.

5. This makes NT and QB the only real remaining weaknesses on the team. The only real impact NT prospect next year is Terrance Cody. Him, Sam Bradford, and Colt McCoy are likely top 10 picks. With the Alphonso Smith trade we have likely taken ourselves of out of a chance to get them. Hopefully we would be able to have realistic shot at getting Vince Wilfork. The Patriots have a history of letting their FA's walk. They also drafted 3 NT's in this year's draft so it would appear they are preparing to let Vince Wilfork do so. As for QB, hate him or love him that is McDaniels strongest trait as a coach. The man can develop QB's and with the weapons and protection we have in that offense a smart, efficient QB is what we need. Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, and Tom Brandstater all fit that profile. This come down to believing in Josh McDaniels to groom QB's, something I certainly do.

Why the Panthers would do this:
1. Peppers doesn't want to be there
When a player does not want to play for him nothing good comes out of keeping him. An unhappy player is more likely to underproduce and/or become a distraction in the locker room (see Ochocinco).

2. Financially it makes sense
With the franchise tag, Peppers will be earning $17M this year. A ridiculous number that is hindering the team from improving itself through free agency. The Panthers could use this new found cap room to get an impact WR across from Steve Smith and fill some holes on the defense.

3. The Panthers traded for Everette Brown
Everette Brown could come in and start at Peppers old spot. A month ago he was a certain top 15 pick. He is a great pass rusher that could make an immediate impact. Trading up to get him was a great move by the Panthers, but costly. They traded their 2010 1st for him. Getting a 2010 1st back would offset that cost.

4. The asking price for Peppers is likely a 1st and a 3rd
We would likely need to throw in a 3rd rounder for him. But I say its worth it. Why? Tony Sheffler. The Eagles have already been rumored to be willing to trade their extra 3rd for Sheffler. Sheffler will be underutilized in this offense and will be gone as a free agent after this year anyways. We might as well get value for him by using him as a tool in acquiring Julius Peppers. Flip that extra 3rd we acquire from Philly to the Panthers. We would essentially be trading Jay Cutler and Tony Sheffler for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers (2009 1st), Julius Peppers (2010 1st), and Richard Quinn.

This move give the Broncos a much better defense and a much better team. Our depth chart would look like this:

DE - Robert Ayers/Kenny Peterson
NT - Ronald Fields/Chris Baker
DE - Darrell Reid/Marcus Thomas
SOLB - Julius Peppers/Boss Bailey
SILB - Andra Davis/Spencer Larsen
WILB - D.J. Williams/Wesley Woodyard
WOLB - Elvis Dumervil/Jarvis Moss
CB - Champ Bailey/Jack Williams/Domonique Johnson
FS - Renaldo Hill/Darcel McBath/David Bruton
SS - Brian Dawkins/Josh Barrett/David Bruton
CB - Alphonso Smith/Andre Goodman/Darcel McBath
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Old 04-29-2009, 02:58 PM   #2
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no
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:01 PM   #3
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I'm torn between no and hell no! Use next years pick and try to get Gerald McCoy.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:07 PM   #4
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Jeebis...


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Old 04-29-2009, 03:11 PM   #5
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If we can get him for Scheffler and a 3rd.

If we could get him for a 2nd rounder.

But you don't want to be out of next yrs first round all together that would be really bad IMO. It's ok to not want 2 first round picks in back to back yrs. I understand using one for a really high 2nd this yr because it frees up money for FA next yr.

Peppers not only is going to cost a pick, but be expensive.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:13 PM   #6
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so Ayers at 270 will play DE, while Peppers at like 290 will play Linebacker?
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
If we can get him for Scheffler and a 3rd.

If we could get him for a 2nd rounder.

But you don't want to be out of next yrs first round all together that would be really bad IMO. It's ok to not want 2 first round picks in back to back yrs. I understand using one for a really high 2nd this yr because it frees up money for FA next yr.

Peppers not only is going to cost a pick, but be expensive.
thanks cutthemdown for being the first one to reply to the thread with some actual thought and effort and appearig to be the only one who actually even read my reasoning thus far.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:14 PM   #8
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For all the reasons you cited, what's to keep the Panthers from just cutting him? I understand the cap hit, but next year may be uncapped, and that issue means nothing in terms of actual outlay of money. Cap hits are not actual expenditures of money. Wait. And he miight be available for a new cntract.....

You are right, If a player doesn't want to play for a franchise, it is better to recognize that fact, and trade him, or let him go.....



Hmmmmmmm.......
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:17 PM   #9
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HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why trade a 1st and a 3rd for a guy who will be 30 when the season starts, is probably on the downside of his career, and will need to learn a new system. he may want to play OLB in a 3-4 but who says he can. it puts us in the same situation we are now with converting DEs to OLB and hoping 1 can make the transition. why bring in another guy to do the same thing, but will be trying to be successful with an inflated contract that he isn't worth.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why trade a 1st and a 3rd for a guy who will be 30 when the season starts, is probably on the downside of his career, and will need to learn a new system. he may want to play OLB in a 3-4 but who says he can. it puts us in the same situation we are now with converting DEs to OLB and hoping 1 can make the transition. why bring in another guy to do the same thing, but will be trying to be successful with an inflated contract that he isn't worth.
That's a nice argument. Trading for Peppers would certainly be a risk. But McDaniels has shown he has the cajones to make such a move. Exhibit A: Trading for Cutler. Exhibit B: Trading our own 1st in 2010 for a 2nd this year.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:27 PM   #11
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Hell to the No
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmelo15 View Post
thanks cutthemdown for being the first one to reply to the thread with some actual thought and effort and appearig to be the only one who actually even read my reasoning thus far.
Honestly had we not drafted ayers I would have traded that pick for Peppers in a hearbeat. Dude is big, moves well, IMO can play in a 3-4 or 4-3.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:33 PM   #13
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Not for the 1st rounder, maybe package a player and a 3rd for him.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:38 PM   #14
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Hell, let's give up all our picks. Next year doesn't even exist.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:44 PM   #15
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He is 30....that is like dating a chick in Hollywood that is 25 (without any "enhancements), the wall is coming to come up quickly.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
If we can get him for Scheffler and a 3rd.
No way I'd trade Scheffler and a pick for Peppers.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:02 PM   #17
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Peppers is at the downside of his career and burning a #1 would be complete waste.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:05 PM   #18
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What's the deal with Peppers anyway, has he softened at all regarding signing his franchise tender?

I'd imagine he'll end up doing a Haynesworth, signing it on the condition that they can't use it again next year.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:18 PM   #19
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1. No it doesn't. You're projecting that a great LDE will become a great 3-4 OLB when he's never played the position before.

2. See #1, again you're projecting.

3. You're right on that one if they plan to play a decent amount of 4-3.

4. Who cares what it does to the Smith pick? Denver needs to get better, and trading for a guy who wants to play a new position doesn't guarantee that.

5. This team has more weaknesses than that.

Panthers
1. Yep.

2. Nope. It's May, there aren't impact free agents left, those guys were gone within days of FA.

3. Brown isn't a LDE, so he's not starting in Peppers' position.

4. The Eagles are not rumored to be interested in trading their extra 3rd for Scheffler, reporters have speculated that it could be used to acquire Scheffler. Big difference. Scheffler is not an unrestricted free agent after this season. Denver controls his rights until after the 2011 season.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:24 PM   #20
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40 million guaranteed to get him. About 17.5 this year on the tag. 20 next if he stays in Carolina. Thats alot of Johnny Walker blue to Pat.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:30 PM   #21
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**** that ****. We have enough LB's. We don't need to give up a 1st rounder and overpay for one.

I don't even think we can afford him now.

Either way, I wouldn't do it.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmelo15 View Post
Why it makes sense for the Broncos:

1. It fills a need.
The Broncos have made some nice moves through free agency and the draft to improve their team, there's no doubt in my mind about that. But the most glaring weakness remains our front seven. Now granted he is not the nose tackle we desperately need. But he would be a significant upgrade at a position of weakness. Peppers as a athletic beast and I believe he would have the athleticism to make the transition standing up. He also has the speed to cover tight ends. We already know how much of a weapon he is as a pass rusher.

2. It makes us much better this year
McDaniels wants to win now, this move certainly works toward that. We will also have about 9 million in cap room after we sign our rookies so it would appear we have the clout to pull it off if Bowlen would approve. Peppers has also long been rumored to have interest in the Broncos.

3. It appears we will be running a 4-3/3-4 hybrid this year
With no real answer at nose tackle, it would appear that we need to run some 4-3 this year as well. Peppers would certainly be a huge weapon in that scheme that is obvious. Ayers would be the perfect RDE compliment to him in a 4-3 as well.

4. It makes the value for Alphonso Smith trade much better
A first next year has the value of a 2nd this year. It is also the Bears first round pick, likely to fall somewhere in the 20's. One thing this also does is make that Alphonso Smith trade look that much better. For one, it will certainly make us better this year which would make our first rounder a lower pick. It would also make our other moves in free agency better. With a stronger pass rush, all those upgrades we made in the secondary will be more strongly highlighted. After this move our 1st round pick would also likely be in the 20's.

5. This makes NT and QB the only real remaining weaknesses on the team. The only real impact NT prospect next year is Terrance Cody. Him, Sam Bradford, and Colt McCoy are likely top 10 picks. With the Alphonso Smith trade we have likely taken ourselves of out of a chance to get them. Hopefully we would be able to have realistic shot at getting Vince Wilfork. The Patriots have a history of letting their FA's walk. They also drafted 3 NT's in this year's draft so it would appear they are preparing to let Vince Wilfork do so. As for QB, hate him or love him that is McDaniels strongest trait as a coach. The man can develop QB's and with the weapons and protection we have in that offense a smart, efficient QB is what we need. Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, and Tom Brandstater all fit that profile. This come down to believing in Josh McDaniels to groom QB's, something I certainly do.

Why the Panthers would do this:
1. Peppers doesn't want to be there
When a player does not want to play for him nothing good comes out of keeping him. An unhappy player is more likely to underproduce and/or become a distraction in the locker room (see Ochocinco).

2. Financially it makes sense
With the franchise tag, Peppers will be earning $17M this year. A ridiculous number that is hindering the team from improving itself through free agency. The Panthers could use this new found cap room to get an impact WR across from Steve Smith and fill some holes on the defense.

3. The Panthers traded for Everette Brown
Everette Brown could come in and start at Peppers old spot. A month ago he was a certain top 15 pick. He is a great pass rusher that could make an immediate impact. Trading up to get him was a great move by the Panthers, but costly. They traded their 2010 1st for him. Getting a 2010 1st back would offset that cost.

4. The asking price for Peppers is likely a 1st and a 3rd
We would likely need to throw in a 3rd rounder for him. But I say its worth it. Why? Tony Sheffler. The Eagles have already been rumored to be willing to trade their extra 3rd for Sheffler. Sheffler will be underutilized in this offense and will be gone as a free agent after this year anyways. We might as well get value for him by using him as a tool in acquiring Julius Peppers. Flip that extra 3rd we acquire from Philly to the Panthers. We would essentially be trading Jay Cutler and Tony Sheffler for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers (2009 1st), Julius Peppers (2010 1st), and Richard Quinn.

This move give the Broncos a much better defense and a much better team. Our depth chart would look like this:

DE - Robert Ayers/Kenny Peterson
NT - Ronald Fields/Chris Baker
DE - Darrell Reid/Marcus Thomas
SOLB - Julius Peppers/Boss Bailey
SILB - Andra Davis/Spencer Larsen
WILB - D.J. Williams/Wesley Woodyard
WOLB - Elvis Dumervil/Jarvis Moss
CB - Champ Bailey/Jack Williams/Domonique Johnson
FS - Renaldo Hill/Darcel McBath/David Bruton
SS - Brian Dawkins/Josh Barrett/David Bruton
CB - Alphonso Smith/Andre Goodman/Darcel McBath

a lot of this doesn't make sense to me...

for starters...Ayers will play OLB...you have Ayers at DE while the bigger Julius Peppers plays standing up?...

plus, can we at least wait until ONE GAME has been played before we proclaim QB is a weakness?...Orton has done nothing to warrent being considered a weakness...he has a winning record for crying out loud...

and why do you think the Bears pick falls in the 20s?...because they have Cutler?...the Bears had the 21st ranked D last year and did nothing significant to address it...they have no WRs and a struggling O-line...GB and Minn both have better teams...

and i'll just quickly touch on the rest--getting Peppers DOES NOT make our Alphonso pick appear better...Peppers has already peaked...and no way i throw in Tony Scheffler also...
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:08 PM   #23
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No. Trading Doom and DJ for him would make sense though.........
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
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This makes NT and QB the only real remaining weaknesses on the team.
Eh...no I'm afraid not.

DE - Robert Ayers/Kenny Peterson- Rookie starter
NT - Ronald Fields/Chris Baker- Backup guy starting
DE - Darrell Reid/Marcus Thomas- Starter sucks...why not Thomas BTW?
SOLB - Julius Peppers/Boss Bailey- He'd come here why?
SILB - Andra Davis/Spencer Larsen- New team FA...wait and see
WILB - D.J. Williams/Wesley Woodyard- Moving inside...not his best position
WOLB - Elvis Dumervil/Jarvis Moss- Unproven at new position
CB - Champ Bailey/Jack Williams/Domonique Johnson- Got this one covered
FS - Renaldo Hill/Darcel McBath/David Bruton- Average
SS - Brian Dawkins/Josh Barrett/David Bruton- Old...but maybe still good for us
CB - Alphonso Smith/Andre Goodman/Darcel McBath- Rookie CB's get toasted
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Eh...no I'm afraid not.

DE - Robert Ayers/Kenny Peterson- Rookie starter
NT - Ronald Fields/Chris Baker- Backup guy starting
DE - Darrell Reid/Marcus Thomas- Starter sucks...why not Thomas BTW?
SOLB - Julius Peppers/Boss Bailey- He'd come here why?
SILB - Andra Davis/Spencer Larsen- New team FA...wait and see
WILB - D.J. Williams/Wesley Woodyard- Moving inside...not his best position
WOLB - Elvis Dumervil/Jarvis Moss- Unproven at new position
CB - Champ Bailey/Jack Williams/Domonique Johnson- Got this one covered
FS - Renaldo Hill/Darcel McBath/David Bruton- Average
SS - Brian Dawkins/Josh Barrett/David Bruton- Old...but maybe still good for us
CB - Alphonso Smith/Andre Goodman/Darcel McBath- Rookie CB's get toasted
You completely ignored the entire premise of this thread to slam the team. Good job, you're a pompus douchebag.
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