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Old 04-29-2009, 07:15 AM   #1
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Default Ill Bet Darcel Mcbath was a settle Pick.

If you look at the Board when Denver went up for Smith you will see a bunch of targets the Broncos must have had in their sights. I would be willing to bet they made the move at 37 with a double down in mind. They thought Hey we can grab Smith Here, and pick up

Rey Maualuga
Ron Brace
Everette Brown
Clint Sintim
Connor Barwin

At 48. Then the board just goes wrong against the Broncos from there on out.

Brace goes as a Luxury Pick for the pick flush Pats. Brown is traded for with a 1st from next year. Sintim and Barwin go to 4-3 teams and Mcbath is the guy at the top of the Board. IMO Not moving up for Sintim or Barwin was the only misplay of the Broncos Draft.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:23 AM   #2
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Trading OUR first for Alphonso Smith was the only misstep in the Broncos draft.

I wouldn't mind, actually, if it was the lower of the two.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:23 AM   #3
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If you look at the Board when Denver went up for Smith you will see a bunch of targets the Broncos must have had in their sights. I would be willing to bet they made the move at 37 with a double down in mind. They thought Hey we can grab Smith Here, and pick up

Rey Maualuga
Ron Brace
Everette Brown
Clint Sintim
Connor Barwin

At 48. Then the board just goes wrong against the Broncos from there on out.

Brace goes as a Luxury Pick for the pick flush Pats. Brown is traded for with a 1st from next year. Sintim and Barwin go to 4-3 teams and Mcbath is the guy at the top of the Board. IMO Not moving up for Sintim or Barwin was the only misplay of the Broncos Draft.
Yeah, possibly, which makes the way they went about acquiring Smith that much more horrid. They would have been better off packaging a combination of our 2 3rds and our 2nd to get Smith and then wait it out for Quinn and McBath.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:24 AM   #4
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Trading OUR first for Alphonso Smith was the only misstep in the Broncos draft.

I wouldn't mind, actually, if it was the lower of the two.
It was a huge misstep though.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:27 AM   #5
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Couldn't you say most picks are settle picks?
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:56 AM   #6
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Yeah, possibly, which makes the way they went about acquiring Smith that much more horrid. They would have been better off packaging a combination of our 2 3rds and our 2nd to get Smith and then wait it out for Quinn and McBath.
Wait it out until when? You're saying they should have traded the 3rds and 2nd to go up for Smith, so you think they could've gotten Quinn and McBath in the 4th and 5th rounds?

If they were targeting one of the other sliders, and that is why they didn't want to move #48 to get Smith, then I could see using #85 to push #48 up a little and bet on Quinn sliding to #79, but if they really liked Smith as much as they say it was an educated risk to jump on him when the deal with Seattle was on the table.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:12 AM   #7
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Yeah, possibly, which makes the way they went about acquiring Smith that much more horrid. They would have been better off packaging a combination of our 2 3rds and our 2nd to get Smith and then wait it out for Quinn and McBath.
No my point is they wanted 2 of the players so that made moving 48 a no go. My guess is Sintim and Barwin are the guys they wanted and both of those guys went to what I would consider unexpected teams.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:13 AM   #8
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Wait it out until when? You're saying they should have traded the 3rds and 2nd to go up for Smith, so you think they could've gotten Quinn and McBath in the 4th and 5th rounds?

If they were targeting one of the other sliders, and that is why they didn't want to move #48 to get Smith, then I could see using #85 to push #48 up a little and bet on Quinn sliding to #79, but if they really liked Smith as much as they say it was an educated risk to jump on him when the deal with Seattle was on the table.
They quite possibly could have selected Quinn in the 4th. And if nothing else, its better to trade next years 2nd to take him or McBath rather than use the first.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:18 AM   #9
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So even if they were expecting to get one of the players you mentioned, whats that have to do with getting Alphonso Smith? They obviously wanted Smith more than any of them, otherwise they would have drafted one of those other guys? I don't see how this makes the smith trade any better or worse
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:23 AM   #10
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If you look at the Board when Denver went up for Smith you will see a bunch of targets the Broncos must have had in their sights. I would be willing to bet they made the move at 37 with a double down in mind. They thought Hey we can grab Smith Here, and pick up

Rey Maualuga
Ron Brace
Everette Brown
Clint Sintim
Connor Barwin

At 48. Then the board just goes wrong against the Broncos from there on out.

Brace goes as a Luxury Pick for the pick flush Pats. Brown is traded for with a 1st from next year. Sintim and Barwin go to 4-3 teams and Mcbath is the guy at the top of the Board. IMO Not moving up for Sintim or Barwin was the only misplay of the Broncos Draft.

Hence why it would of been smarter to go with Brace first, then go for a DB. But thats if its how McD planned it.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:24 AM   #11
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Wait it out until when? You're saying they should have traded the 3rds and 2nd to go up for Smith, so you think they could've gotten Quinn and McBath in the 4th and 5th rounds?

If they were targeting one of the other sliders, and that is why they didn't want to move #48 to get Smith, then I could see using #85 to push #48 up a little and bet on Quinn sliding to #79, but if they really liked Smith as much as they say it was an educated risk to jump on him when the deal with Seattle was on the table.

Quinn, Absolutely. He was projected as a 4-5th rounder anyway. McBath, not so much but definitely could of been had in the 3rd round.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:25 AM   #12
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Hence why it would of been smarter to go with Brace first, then go for a DB. But thats if its how McD planned it.
Smith is a better Prospect than Brace. I think that is pretty much universally accepted.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:26 AM   #13
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So even if they were expecting to get one of the players you mentioned, whats that have to do with getting Alphonso Smith? They obviously wanted Smith more than any of them, otherwise they would have drafted one of those other guys? I don't see how this makes the smith trade any better or worse
It is IMO the Only reason I can see for us not Using 48 to trade up and instead went with next years #1. It is the only Logical Reason I can see.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:26 AM   #14
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Smith is a better Prospect than Brace. I think that is pretty much universally accepted.
Dont know about that. McD's mentor thought he was solid enough and took him. And at the same time still got a top 5 DB in the process.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:28 AM   #15
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Dont know about that. McD's mentor thought he was solid enough and took him. And at the same time still got a top 5 DB in the process.
He took him as a Insurance pick against loosing Vince Wilfork next year.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:29 AM   #16
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He took him as a Insurance pick against loosing Vince Wilfork next year.
Really? I didnt see a story on that. You have a link?
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:31 AM   #17
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It is IMO the Only reason I can see for us not Using 48 to trade up and instead went with next years #1. It is the only Logical Reason I can see.
ooh, i get what you mean. Yeah, then maybe. Oh well, the draft is a crap shoot, you win some, you lose some.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:31 AM   #18
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Yeah, possibly, which makes the way they went about acquiring Smith that much more horrid. They would have been better off packaging a combination of our 2 3rds and our 2nd to get Smith and then wait it out for Quinn and McBath.
Why would any other teams want a bunch picks IN A WEAK DRAFT?

Do you think 3 extra picks in this draft appeals to any team, besides the Cowboys?

Plus, giving away a bunch of picks in this draft leaves the Broncos no room to get the other players they feel are worth drafting, like Quinn.

The Broncos had Smith targeted as THE BEST CB in the draft, first round talent.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:31 AM   #19
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If these guys turn out to be starters and improve this team, you are all wrong.

**** the Cutler trade. this is about winning football games.

If we are picking guys that improve the talent level of the team and help us win games, that's what the draft is about. Being a top ten pick is no guarantee of NFL success.

Which would you rather have a seventh pick on Heyward Bey, or a fourth round pick of Brandon Marshall? Would you rather have a four pick on McFadden or a 12 pick of Moreno? Would you rather have a 1 pick of Jake Long, or a 12 pick of Clady?
Dorsey at 5?
Gholston at 6?
Chris Williams at 14?

Or, lets look back at 2007.
Jamarcus Russell at 1?
We all wanted Adam Carriker at 13.
Jarvis Moss at 17?

And the list goes on....
Draft picks are a shot at potential. If you get a starrter that improves your team, you have scored. Let's stop overanalyzing the picks until we see if these guys are starter material.

If they sit on the bench for 2 years, you have an extremely valid point. If they are starters this year or next, you are completely wrong to second guess the moves.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:33 AM   #20
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If these guys turn out to be starters and improve this team, you are all wrong.

Gee, you think?

And if they turn out to busts they wont help the team right?
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:37 AM   #21
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Why would any other teams want a bunch picks IN A WEAK DRAFT?
Couldn't you phrase this same sentiment as 'why would the Broncos want a bunch of players from a weak draft'?

The people on this board that didn't like the moves - for the most part, from what I have inferred, have no problems with THE PLAYERS. The problem is with THE PRICE.

If the 2010 draft is generally seen as a deeper crop of talent than the 2009 draft, I still haven't seen a rationale explanation on how it makes sense to trade a 2010 #1 or a #2009 #2.

The ONLY psuedo-reason I've seen hinted at is cost. If the Broncos have a top 5 pick next year, they can now wave their hands and say 'we don't have the pick, we have Smith'.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:38 AM   #22
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Gee, you think?

And if they turn out to busts they wont help the team right?
I want to think of some great retort, but ok. Maybe I deserved it.

Just too much second guessing around here - everyone thinks they know better than the pros. Sometimes, we just need to sit back and let someone prove (or disprove) themselves.

I will restate my point a little more concisely. If you find any decent starting Safety anywhere in the draft, you will eventually say he was worth a first round pick. Let McBath prove his worth before we declare if he was a "reach."
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:40 AM   #23
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Couldn't you phrase this same sentiment as 'why would the Broncos want a bunch of players from a weak draft'?

The people on this board that didn't like the moves - for the most part, from what I have inferred, have no problems with THE PLAYERS. The problem is with THE PRICE.

If the 2010 draft is generally seen as a deeper crop of talent than the 2009 draft, I still haven't seen a rationale explanation on how it makes sense to trade a 2010 #1 or a #2009 #2.

The ONLY psuedo-reason I've seen hinted at is cost. If the Broncos have a top 5 pick next year, they can now wave their hands and say 'we don't have the pick, we have Smith'.
If the Broncos have a top 5 Pick next year it really does not matter as Mcdaniels is a Collosal Failure as a Head Coach. The offense even with an average QB should push us to 8-8. IMO we have a top 5 offense with or with out Cutler.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:40 AM   #24
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Couldn't you phrase this same sentiment as 'why would the Broncos want a bunch of players from a weak draft'?

The people on this board that didn't like the moves - for the most part, from what I have inferred, have no problems with THE PLAYERS. The problem is with THE PRICE.

If the 2010 draft is generally seen as a deeper crop of talent than the 2009 draft, I still haven't seen a rationale explanation on how it makes sense to trade a 2010 #1 or a #2009 #2.

The ONLY psuedo-reason I've seen hinted at is cost. If the Broncos have a top 5 pick next year, they can now wave their hands and say 'we don't have the pick, we have Smith'.
OK, there are two ways to look at price. A miss in the first round (and potentially the top ten) is crippling for a franchise. If we got first round talent in the second round, and didn't have to pay top ten salaries - it's freakin' brilliant!

I say that as a business owner. If you have to pay for talent, it's worth it. But, if you can get the same (starter) talent for less, it's a homerun.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:42 AM   #25
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I want to think of some great retort, but ok. Maybe I deserved it.

Just too much second guessing around here - everyone thinks they know better than the pros. Sometimes, we just need to sit back and let someone prove (or disprove) themselves.

I will restate my point a little more concisely. If you find any decent starting Safety anywhere in the draft, you will eventually say he was worth a first round pick. Let McBath prove his worth before we declare if he was a "reach."

Absolutely. But like Fate just said my only problem is where they were taken. My feeling is that those positions were deep and we could of easily gotten someone as talented as them later on. To me, this could of been a even better draft had McD not gotten so ansy for just a few players. In the end it wont matter. If they work out (which they are solid players and should) then its nothing but good news for the Broncos. But, to me this was a great opportunity to really exploit this draft and get even MORE playmakers which i feel we failed to do here. And thats my only concern with how it went down. The players themselves will do their jobs well but we did nothing to help that Dline which is exactly what Shanny has failed to do the last few years. But, we will see.
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