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Old 04-28-2009, 08:19 AM   #1
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Default Spread Offense and this Draft

Just because Moreno was taken with the first pick does not mean that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden be a run first team. The Spread Offense is not a "run first" offense. It is what it is, a pass first offense.

Getting Quinn in order to field 2 ligitimate blocking TEs is condusive to pass blocking more than run blocking: TE, T, G, C, G, T, TE is a wall around the QB so he can throw the ball. Moreno then becomes another passing threat, if he's even on the field. More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set.

The Broncos took Moreno to help the running game and the passing game. They then took another blocking TE, a WR and a QB. I don't know where analysts get the idea (or posters here for that matter) that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden rely more heavily on the running attack.

Lombardi on the NFLN seems to think that because the Broncos drafted Moreno, they intend to run the ball more. Drafting Moreno also compensates for losing Cutler. In other words, Orton and Simms lack the ability to lead a passing attack and Moreno is there to run the ball, and only run the ball.

Does Lombardi understand the Spread Offense at all? Am I wrong in thinking he's wrong?
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:27 AM   #2
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Can you run a 2TE set with a 3WR set at the same time AND have Moreno on the field?

5 OLinemen
1 QB
2 TE
3 WR
1 Moreno

5 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 12
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DrFate View Post
Can you run a 2TE set with a 3WR set at the same time AND have Moreno on the field?

5 OLinemen
1 QB
2 TE
3 WR
1 Moreno

5 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 12
Nope. Read my post again.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:33 AM   #4
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"More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set"

Doesn't this mean that Moreno is on the sideline?
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by DrFate View Post
"More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set"

Doesn't this mean that Moreno is on the sideline?
Exactly. Hence, no running. It's a passing attack when there is a 2 TE set. Perhaps my original post is not clear.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:41 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Does Lombardi understand the Spread Offense at all? Am I wrong in thinking he's wrong?
I agree that we may not necessarily be a "run first" team but the Pats ran plenty last year (49% of their plays). With Moreno, and some combo of Hillis, Jordan, Buckhalter and Arrington backing him up, we'll run plenty as well. And I think it's probably fair to say we'll probably run more with Moreno than we would have without him.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:41 AM   #7
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The offense will do what it needs to do to move the ball in the situation. if you look at the Pats playoff run during their undefeated season, their opponents got a heavy dose of Maroney.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:42 AM   #8
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Moreno did a ton of running, and effectively, out of the shotgun at UGA. I would assume this was one of the major factors that made him attractive.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:48 AM   #9
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Last year the Patriots ran the ball 513 times and threw it 534 times.

They were the second best balanced team in the league in this regard behind only the Giants.

They were Top 10 in percentage of running plays called.

6th in total rushing yards.

4th in total rushing plays called.

7th in Yards Per Carry.

4th in rushing TD's scored.

The only rushing statistics they didn't rank highly in is runs of +20 and +40 yards, ranking in the middle of the pack in both categories.

Or, put another way, they moved the ball consistently at over 4 yards a carry, with not many big plays to raise the averages.

So I'd personally assume we'll probably run the ball a bit now that we have a quality back like Moreno.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:49 AM   #10
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what about our spread defense and this draft?
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:52 AM   #11
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Or, put another way, they moved the ball consistently at over 4 yards a carry, with not many big plays to raise the averages.
Yep, and they did this with Maroney in street clothes most of the season. As I said above, we will run the football plenty. They didn't draft Moreno to have him watch 2 TE/3 WR sets from the sidelines.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Just because Moreno was taken with the first pick does not mean that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden be a run first team. The Spread Offense is not a "run first" offense. It is what it is, a pass first offense.

Getting Quinn in order to field 2 ligitimate blocking TEs is condusive to pass blocking more than run blocking: TE, T, G, C, G, T, TE is a wall around the QB so he can throw the ball. Moreno then becomes another passing threat, if he's even on the field. More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set.

The Broncos took Moreno to help the running game and the passing game. They then took another blocking TE, a WR and a QB. I don't know where analysts get the idea (or posters here for that matter) that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden rely more heavily on the running attack.

Lombardi on the NFLN seems to think that because the Broncos drafted Moreno, they intend to run the ball more. Drafting Moreno also compensates for losing Cutler. In other words, Orton and Simms lack the ability to lead a passing attack and Moreno is there to run the ball, and only run the ball.

Does Lombardi understand the Spread Offense at all? Am I wrong in thinking he's wrong?
excellent post...

i was thinking the same thing when i was watching the NFLN...and Lombardi isn't the only one saying it...

everybody seems to think that with Moreno, we can handcuff Orton...it's like they pay no attention to players...Orton ran a spread offense in college and put up ridiculous numbers...thats where Orton is comfortable...

Moreno along with Quinn adds flexibilty & verstility to our offense...at times we'll line up and bust people in the mouth but for the most part we'll run the spread offense and create matchup nightmares for opposing defenses...
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:05 AM   #13
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what about our spread defense and this draft?
I believe it should be called the "spread eagle" defense.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:08 AM   #14
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Considering the Broncos picked up 12 running backs so far this offseason, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we won't see a significant percentage of plays with no running back on the field.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:16 AM   #15
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Considering the Broncos picked up 12 running backs so far this offseason, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we won't see a significant percentage of plays with no running back on the field.
You are correct sir!
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamakazi_kal View Post
what about our spread defense and this draft?
It's still not a run first attack, as Lombardi is suggesting. If anything, the pass sets up the run. Looking at the Pats, it's pretty even between the run and the pass, but it's not a "run first" offense.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Getting Quinn in order to field 2 ligitimate blocking TEs is condusive to pass blocking more than run blocking: TE, T, G, C, G, T, TE is a wall around the QB so he can throw the ball. Moreno then becomes another passing threat, if he's even on the field. More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set.
I agree with your general concept, but not this part.

The Broncos are going to use two TE sets that feature Graham and either Scheffler or Quinn. When Scheffler is on the field in a two TE set he'll probably be going out as a receiver and they won't go with two WRs in those cases. When its Graham and Quinn I think we'll still see McDaniels favor Moreno over a 3rd WR on most of those downs, because Moreno is a more versatile, far superior player to any 3rd WR we've got to send out there.

Moreno will be on the field a ton this season, as will Peyton Hillis. They will be the dynamic duo of our offense. McDaniels' offense in NE has been an ever changing scheme to fit the talent he has on the roster, but the consistent trait has been his love of versatile RBs who can impact the game running, catching, and blocking.

This pays off for his entire scheme because a QB with a safety net he can trust is calm in the pocket, and that leads to far superior decision making. Orton or Simms, whomever the starter may be, will have the dump out options of Moreno and/or Hillis on nearly every play, and probably a TE as well who will chip block and then run a shallow slant or curl on many of the two TE sets.

McDaniels' method of offensive planning is all about making life easy on the QB. Educate him on how to make smart pre-snap reads so after the snap he's got less to process. Make him comfortable in the pocket while he goes through his options. Allow him to just facilitate plays that put our play making receivers and backs in position to break them open.

I said in another thread that I think Moreno's talents compare very well to Tiki Barber. But how we utilize him will produce results much more akin to Marshall Faulk's prime in St. Louis. He'll be what Reggie Bush was supposed to be.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Just because Moreno was taken with the first pick does not mean that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden be a run first team. The Spread Offense is not a "run first" offense. It is what it is, a pass first offense.

Getting Quinn in order to field 2 ligitimate blocking TEs is condusive to pass blocking more than run blocking: TE, T, G, C, G, T, TE is a wall around the QB so he can throw the ball. Moreno then becomes another passing threat, if he's even on the field. More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set.

The Broncos took Moreno to help the running game and the passing game. They then took another blocking TE, a WR and a QB. I don't know where analysts get the idea (or posters here for that matter) that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden rely more heavily on the running attack.

Lombardi on the NFLN seems to think that because the Broncos drafted Moreno, they intend to run the ball more. Drafting Moreno also compensates for losing Cutler. In other words, Orton and Simms lack the ability to lead a passing attack and Moreno is there to run the ball, and only run the ball.

Does Lombardi understand the Spread Offense at all? Am I wrong in thinking he's wrong?
The spread is all about thinning the defense horizonatlly to create mismatches and exploit pressure points, whether by running or pass. I like it in theory but I hate running out of the SG, which is kind of Mickey Mouse.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:44 AM   #19
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I agree with your general concept, but not this part.

The Broncos are going to use two TE sets that feature Graham and either Scheffler or Quinn. When Scheffler is on the field in a two TE set he'll probably be going out as a receiver and they won't go with two WRs in those cases. When its Graham and Quinn I think we'll still see McDaniels favor Moreno over a 3rd WR on most of those downs, because Moreno is a more versatile, far superior player to any 3rd WR we've got to send out there.

Moreno will be on the field a ton this season, as will Peyton Hillis. They will be the dynamic duo of our offense. McDaniels' offense in NE has been an ever changing scheme to fit the talent he has on the roster, but the consistent trait has been his love of versatile RBs who can impact the game running, catching, and blocking.

This pays off for his entire scheme because a QB with a safety net he can trust is calm in the pocket, and that leads to far superior decision making. Orton or Simms, whomever the starter may be, will have the dump out options of Moreno and/or Hillis on nearly every play, and probably a TE as well who will chip block and then run a shallow slant or curl on many of the two TE sets.

McDaniels' method of offensive planning is all about making life easy on the QB. Educate him on how to make smart pre-snap reads so after the snap he's got less to process. Make him comfortable in the pocket while he goes through his options. Allow him to just facilitate plays that put our play making receivers and backs in position to break them open.

I said in another thread that I think Moreno's talents compare very well to Tiki Barber. But how we utilize him will produce results much more akin to Marshall Faulk's prime in St. Louis. He'll be what Reggie Bush was supposed to be.
People seem to forget that the Patriots did pretty well with Corey Dillon running for them. One year he had over 1600 yards and 300 carries. And if Moreno is taken at 12, he should, in theory, be more than what NE has had in recent years and so to expect that out of him is selling him short.

I think we will and should rely on the run more due to not knowing what we have at QB.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:39 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Just because Moreno was taken with the first pick does not mean that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden be a run first team. The Spread Offense is not a "run first" offense. It is what it is, a pass first offense.

Getting Quinn in order to field 2 ligitimate blocking TEs is condusive to pass blocking more than run blocking: TE, T, G, C, G, T, TE is a wall around the QB so he can throw the ball. Moreno then becomes another passing threat, if he's even on the field. More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set.

The Broncos took Moreno to help the running game and the passing game. They then took another blocking TE, a WR and a QB. I don't know where analysts get the idea (or posters here for that matter) that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden rely more heavily on the running attack.

Lombardi on the NFLN seems to think that because the Broncos drafted Moreno, they intend to run the ball more. Drafting Moreno also compensates for losing Cutler. In other words, Orton and Simms lack the ability to lead a passing attack and Moreno is there to run the ball, and only run the ball.

Does Lombardi understand the Spread Offense at all? Am I wrong in thinking he's wrong?
I have no idea what the plan is or how good the team will be.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:48 AM   #21
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Last year the Patriots ran the ball 513 times and threw it 534 times.

They were the second best balanced team in the league in this regard behind only the Giants.

They were Top 10 in percentage of running plays called.

6th in total rushing yards.

4th in total rushing plays called.

7th in Yards Per Carry.

4th in rushing TD's scored.

The only rushing statistics they didn't rank highly in is runs of +20 and +40 yards, ranking in the middle of the pack in both categories.

Or, put another way, they moved the ball consistently at over 4 yards a carry, with not many big plays to raise the averages.

So I'd personally assume we'll probably run the ball a bit now that we have a quality back like Moreno.
OK. That educated me some about what the plan may be.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:04 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Just because Moreno was taken with the first pick does not mean that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden be a run first team. The Spread Offense is not a "run first" offense. It is what it is, a pass first offense.

Getting Quinn in order to field 2 ligitimate blocking TEs is condusive to pass blocking more than run blocking: TE, T, G, C, G, T, TE is a wall around the QB so he can throw the ball. Moreno then becomes another passing threat, if he's even on the field. More likely, when the Broncos line up 2 TE's they then go with a 3 WR set.

The Broncos took Moreno to help the running game and the passing game. They then took another blocking TE, a WR and a QB. I don't know where analysts get the idea (or posters here for that matter) that the Broncos are going to all of a sudden rely more heavily on the running attack.

Lombardi on the NFLN seems to think that because the Broncos drafted Moreno, they intend to run the ball more. Drafting Moreno also compensates for losing Cutler. In other words, Orton and Simms lack the ability to lead a passing attack and Moreno is there to run the ball, and only run the ball.

Does Lombardi understand the Spread Offense at all? Am I wrong in thinking he's wrong?
NE has been a run first offense that uses the spread like Lex said above. The thing is you have to have the weapons to spread the field like NE and ARI did last year. ARI was just nowhere near as adept as NE at running the ball. So, they went and got Chrie Wells and a House of an OL in Herman Johnson to supplement what they do and not being able to run the ball. DEN already has those in place and Now Moreno makes the RB a dual threat like the NE RB's always were.

Moreno will get plenty of touches on the ground AND in the air. Remember, NE is a heavy Screen team out of the Spread, because it makes teams have to play honestly on the outside. That opens up the inside runs from the spread and other formations. They will take what the defense gives them and punish them for not playing straight up on the matchups they want.

NE has always loved to chew up the clock on offense, but they also had quick strike capability because teams would press them underneath to stop the ball control offense. Then, they would max protect or total spread and go deep on them when they were exposed.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:28 PM   #23
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NE has always loved to chew up the clock on offense...
If our offense can chew some clock that will perhaps turn our very below average defense into an only slightly below average defense, which will in turn make this team better than last years'. Instead of Jay trying to make things happen by forcing throws into triple coverage hopefully in this offense Kyle (or Chris) will dump the ball off to Knowshon (or Peyton or J.J. or Correll) and we'll move the chains.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:39 PM   #24
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NE has been a run first offense that uses the spread like Lex said above. The thing is you have to have the weapons to spread the field like NE and ARI did last year. ARI was just nowhere near as adept as NE at running the ball. So, they went and got Chrie Wells and a House of an OL in Herman Johnson to supplement what they do and not being able to run the ball. DEN already has those in place and Now Moreno makes the RB a dual threat like the NE RB's always were.

Moreno will get plenty of touches on the ground AND in the air. Remember, NE is a heavy Screen team out of the Spread, because it makes teams have to play honestly on the outside. That opens up the inside runs from the spread and other formations. They will take what the defense gives them and punish them for not playing straight up on the matchups they want.

NE has always loved to chew up the clock on offense, but they also had quick strike capability because teams would press them underneath to stop the ball control offense. Then, they would max protect or total spread and go deep on them when they were exposed.

Yep everyone thinks NE just lines up and throws it around because of two years ago. I think NE does a great job of making their scheme fit the personel and that is what McD is doing. When Brady went down they ran the ball a lot last year until Cassel was comfortable and then opened it up a bit but they still ran the ball at pretty much a 50-50 ratio. I think Quinn was picked up to help the running game more so than go 2 TE/3WR set to pass.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:38 PM   #25
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During one of McD's pressers he kept bringing up that Moreno knew
how to pass block where most rb's coming out of college don't.
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