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Old 04-26-2009, 02:13 PM   #1
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Default Why draft Defensive Lineman if we thought they sucked?

For as much b****ing and complaining that is going on on this board, has anyone ever considered whether this was a good year to draft defensive lineman? What if they are terrible? Should we draft terrible defensive lineman just because we have a need?

If McDaniels is following his draft board, nobody here should have a problem with it. If you can take a Alphonso Smith, a true playmaker in the secondary, or a defensive lineman that wouldn't even crack our rotation, don't you make that move? Common sense to me.

I read one person's analysis of the draft and he had a problem with EVERY PICK. Not one pick, but every single ****ing one. That is amazing.

Don't fret, just like the Post said, if you keep drafting the best players available every year, eventually you will have a great team.

And let us be realistic, we are not winning the super bowl next year so why complain about stockpiling players management thinks is the best available?
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:16 PM   #2
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Because you're supposed to draft flawed players as long as they supposedly fit the system, rather than draft players you like. Especially if you already have a bunch of supposedly flawed players on the roster.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:19 PM   #3
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Well you could make the argument that Ron Brace wasn't flawed because the Pats took him right after we took Smith.

But your overall point is completely right. You don't take a guy that you don't believe in just because "you're supposed to take a tackle". That's how busts happen.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:25 PM   #4
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There are no "busts" on day two.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Well you could make the argument that Ron Brace wasn't flawed because the Pats took him right after we took Smith.
and that is what tells me they think more of our current Dline talent than we do... It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:26 PM   #6
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Because many posters on this board take the approach that it's much more convenient to suppose that "I am smarter and more knowledgeable than people who have spent their entire adult life in the NFL." After all, internet message boards, ESPN and Madden are where it's really at...
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Well you could make the argument that Ron Brace wasn't flawed because the Pats took him right after we took Smith.

But your overall point is completely right. You don't take a guy that you don't believe in just because "you're supposed to take a tackle". That's how busts happen.
Maybe we missed the boat with Brace, who knows? But lots of analysts said he is terrible when he is double teamed. So who knows?

All I know is, stats transfer, usually. If you are a playermaker in college, you are one in the pros. Alphonso Smith makes plays, period. I doubt that is going to change in the NFL. Plus, you have to love the fact that he helped turn around a college football program that was an ACC doormat for years before Aarron Curry and Smith showed up.

I'm excited. Take the best players every year. Eventually, we are going to be good.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:28 PM   #8
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if Nolan didn't think any of the DL players in this draft were any good i am glad he didn't get McDaniels to reach on guys simply because they play a position of need. that is the reason we are stuck with guys like Moss and Crowder.

i would rather us go after good players who will contribute as opposed to reaching for to sit on the bench simply because he plays a position we are weak at. if they aren't going to improve the team, why take them.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:29 PM   #9
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I guess Pittsburgh doesn't know what they're doing. They drafted a DT at 32 and have drafted another one at the bottom of the 6th (pick 205). I guess Denver's current talent on the DL is far superior to theirs.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:30 PM   #10
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Actually, I have the same feeling after this draft that I used to have after a Shanahan draft; The creepy feeling that Shanahan thought he was smarter than everybody else. I just looked at a few teams whose GMs are considered the top of the drafting game in the NFL:

Ozzie Newsome/Ravens: Took Paul Kruger, DE, 2nd round
Belichick/Patriots: Took Ronald Brace, DT, 2nd round
Polian/Colts: Took Fili Moala, DT, 2nd round
Pioli/Chiefs: Took Alex Magee, DT, 2nd round

That's fine if Mac thought all these Dlinemen sucked so he went after DBs instead, but then you have to buy the argument that he knows more than the four guys I've listed above. I'm afraid that would require a major stretch of imagination for me to believe that.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:31 PM   #11
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Rashon Harris with Oregon would have been perfect 332 pounds. Oh he went to Pittsburgh who always gets great DL in later rounds.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:32 PM   #12
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There are no "busts" on day two.

AL davis will prove you wrong.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:32 PM   #13
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The Broncos just traded away our best change to get a All Pro Defensive lineman in next years draft in McCoy for a nickle corner. I like all our picks as players but feel the Broncos should of drafted the players that would have the Broncos building a shut down Defensive front 7 like steelers or Ravens .
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:32 PM   #14
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Teams that use the philosophy "we need this, so take him even if he really isn't highly valued" are the ones that keep losing.

The draft is used to acquire talent.

Sure, if the Broncos had been drafting well for years now, then they maybe could afford to draft a guy for need and take a chance the guy develops into something.

But this team needs talent across the board. McDaniels even stated he believed not just the defense needed talent.

Look at the Raiders. They drafted for just speed, not so much the talent. Al always thinks his team needs speed and will draft that over overall talent. You want the Broncos to copy the Raiders way of thinking?
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Actually, I have the same feeling after this draft that I used to have after a Shanahan draft; The creepy feeling that Shanahan thought he was smarter than everybody else. I just looked at a few teams whose GMs are considered the top of the drafting game in the NFL:

Ozzie Newsome/Ravens: Took Paul Kruger, DE, 2nd round
Belichick/Patriots: Took Ronald Brace, DT, 2nd round
Polian/Colts: Took Fili Moala, DT, 2nd round
Pioli/Chiefs: Took Alex Magee, DT, 2nd round

That's fine if Mac thought all these Dlinemen sucked so he went after DBs instead, but then you have to buy the argument that he knows more than the four guys I've listed above. I'm afraid that would require a major stretch of imagination for me to believe that.
Nolan isn't exactly a dunce when it comes to disecting defensive talent. he is indirectly responsible for the Ravens defensive success.

also, you have to factor in, whether or not Nolan and McDaniels felt these DL would fit the sceme they will run this year.

what is a good pick for one team doesn't mean it is good for another.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Actually, I have the same feeling after this draft that I used to have after a Shanahan draft; The creepy feeling that Shanahan thought he was smarter than everybody else. I just looked at a few teams whose GMs are considered the top of the drafting game in the NFL:

Ozzie Newsome/Ravens: Took Paul Kruger, DE, 2nd round
Belichick/Patriots: Took Ronald Brace, DT, 2nd round
Polian/Colts: Took Fili Moala, DT, 2nd round
Pioli/Chiefs: Took Alex Magee, DT, 2nd round

That's fine if Mac thought all these Dlinemen sucked so he went after DBs instead, but then you have to buy the argument that he knows more than the four guys I've listed above. I'm afraid that would require a major stretch of imagination for me to believe that.
Three of those teams have the talent to take a bigger risk. They'll have other players that can cover deficiencies in their chosen players.

The Chiefs were so bad they can do pretty much whatever they want and it will be an improvement.

We need players on the line and in the secondary. If the talent is in the secondary on draft day I would hope that's where we pick. It's not like we had quality guys back there last year. In fact I would argue our DL was the more talented bunch overall rather than our street FA CB's and Safeties.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Actually, I have the same feeling after this draft that I used to have after a Shanahan draft; The creepy feeling that Shanahan thought he was smarter than everybody else. I just looked at a few teams whose GMs are considered the top of the drafting game in the NFL:

Ozzie Newsome/Ravens: Took Paul Kruger, DE, 2nd round
Belichick/Patriots: Took Ronald Brace, DT, 2nd round
Polian/Colts: Took Fili Moala, DT, 2nd round
Pioli/Chiefs: Took Alex Magee, DT, 2nd round

That's fine if Mac thought all these Dlinemen sucked so he went after DBs instead, but then you have to buy the argument that he knows more than the four guys I've listed above. I'm afraid that would require a major stretch of imagination for me to believe that.
Of those players you mentioned, only Brace is a good projection to the 3-4. But he was not much of a difference maker in college, and Belichek's drafts the last two or three seasons have not been great, so his opinion is hardly unimpeachable.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
Nolan isn't exactly a dunce when it comes to disecting defensive talent. he is indirectly responsible for the Ravens defensive success.

also, you have to factor in, whether or not Nolan and McDaniels felt these DL would fit the sceme they will run this year.

what is a good pick for one team doesn't mean it is good for another.

Let be honest. Nolan walked into a defense built by Ozzie Newsome and designed by Marvin Lewis. Yes he moved to hybrid defense but Newsome and Lewis got 90% of the players he was using and when he (Nolan) was the man, SF didn't become a defense powerhouse.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:43 PM   #19
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Strangely I had the Broncos taking Hood at #18 in my mock draft and was consistently told that was a reach and too high. Now that the Steelers took him in the 1st round and before the Bronco 2nd round pick as I believe and stated would happen, which is why I didn't think they could wait to get him, it's a great pick for the Steelers. Ok, whatever.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #20
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If we're willing to trade a first round pick (next year) for a CB, two thirds to get a TE, trade up to get a QB in the 6th, why wouldn't we make some trades to get some front 7 defensive players (whoever you grade as worthy), where it's needed most

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Old 04-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #21
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Nolan left the Ravens five years ago. The person I have always heard attributed to the Ravens drafting success is Ozzie Newsome. I'll go with that.

We were the 29th ranked defense in the league last season. I don't know where anybody gets the idea that we have a good D line, or that by shifting the same players around to different spots and coaching them differently, they will suddenly be more successful. I suppose that's possible. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Powell can do. And, as everybody can see, I've adopted the Mighty McChesney.

Still, this draft has the smell of Mac thinking he's smarter than everybody else. We'll see.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
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There are no "busts" on day two.
This is correct .....

And if you don't like whats there, you trade back.

I trust Nolan, but something is very weird about drafting ZERO defensive linemen for the 3-4. We must be abandoning the 3-4 for now, that's the only explanation I can think of.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:49 PM   #23
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McDaniels thinks he's smarter than everyone else? Oh ok, I know, McDaniels should have had a website so the fans could vote on who they wanted them to pick and that way, he wouldn't need to be smarter than everyone else. God forbid the coach and GM are smarter than everyone else. Oh, and McDaniels, please don't be smarter than Kiper.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:49 PM   #24
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Bottom line is we only need to fill 3 DL positions this year. We've already kicked Engelberger to the curb so right there the weakest link from last year is gone. Right?
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Of those players you mentioned, only Brace is a good projection to the 3-4. But he was not much of a difference maker in college, and Belichek's drafts the last two or three seasons have not been great, so his opinion is hardly unimpeachable.
I'm not saying anybody's opinion is unimpeachable. I'm saying that the contention that there were no D lineman in this draft worth drafting is highly suspect. I'm guessing that what we had here was a young HC locking onto his picks (like a young QB locking on to his receiver) and not letting go. Broncos fans on this board are not the only people questioning these picks. Draft sites all over the net and on SI, ESPN, NFLN, etc. etc. etc. are shaking their heads and wondering why the Broncos didn't get any help for their D line who everybody on the planet projected as the greatest need. I love the BPA concept, but like any philosophy, you can take it too far.

Fili has gone to the Colts, so we'll never know, but he was constantly double teamed at USC and I've read many express the idea that he could have gained a few pounds and held up at NT. Better than fourth round pick Fields? I don't see why not. Alex Magee was the guy I really saw possibilities in. I predict the Chiefs got a steal in that pick. Magee is rough now but he's one of those total effort guys who will make a career in the NFL. Brace, I was never wild about. Since Belichick took him, hopefully he busts.
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