Brandon Marshall was taken off HOU's Draft board - The Orange Mane

Mediator12 · 04-17-2009, 07:19 AM

I was just watching NFL Path to the Draft while they were discussing the risk/reward of drafting players. They talked about three categories Game tape, injury, and character. When they got around to character, they explained what some teams were looking for as red flags when drafting players. They went through all the usual blatant stuff like selling drugs, beating women, and the like. Then, Casserly said something I knew but had never been confiremed about Marshall. He had been removed from some teams draft boards entirely due to having too much "Stuff" against him in the off field character profile.

I know I have talked to people here who believed that was untrue and/or unfair. However, this is the first public confirmation of that from a former NFL GM who set a draft board. Casserly then explained he was taken off because they believed that "Stuff" would follow him into the league like it already has. And, this was before the new era of discipline suspensions was started by Goodell.

I just wanted to share this with those who have contended that character should not heavily influence the scouting process and that teams should not use it to eliminate players like Marshall from consideration. It truly is a risk/reward scenario that each individual team has to assess how comfortable they are with each unique player. There are more than a few questionable players coming up in this draft, including BJ Raji. So, take this with a grain of salt but do not be surprised when players with Marshall's Talent drop again.

Dagmar · 04-17-2009, 07:29 AM

Being a dick = costs you money.

(not saying Marshall is a dick)

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 04-17-2009, 07:30 AM

And he lasted into the fourth round. Which means a lot of folks moved him down based on this stuff, because his talent is through the roof.

Rohirrim · 04-17-2009, 07:31 AM

From some of the whispers about Raji, I certainly wouldn't wager a #12 pick on him.

want2bAbronco2 · 04-17-2009, 07:31 AM

Looks like they were right to move him off there boards.

400HZ · 04-17-2009, 07:35 AM

Frankly with Goodell's current punishment system, there isn't that much risk to taking on a troublemaker outside of the first round. Brandon Marshall is a prime example. He's still a complete bargain as a draft pick even if he ends up missing a few games here and there. The inititive to fine teams part of what the suspended player would have made during his suspension is a step in the right direction, but the actual amounts end up being miniscule.

Man-Goblin · 04-17-2009, 07:35 AM

I get it. Teams want good character guys, but Marshall is so incredibly talented it still seems that it was worth the gamble. Even if the Broncos traded Marshall right now they could probably get at least a 2nd for him. That's a significant upgrade on the 4th they spent on him, so in this case I don't agree with Casserly's stance.

Brandon Marshall is such an enigma because he truly does seem to care about his off-the-field perception and has taken major steps to be a better person. From what I can gather, he actually does have a good heart, but when he came into the league he was immensely immature and he still hasn't grown up all the way. Remember, even Mike Shanahan, who some say coddled his guys, had to flog Marshall to get him on the field when he was supposedly hurt. But now he willingly plays hurt, as demonstrated last year with his hip and arm issues. He seems to be different from guys who are just plain bad seeds, or maybe I'm just being a homer about him.

2KBack · 04-17-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man-Goblin

I get it. Teams want good character guys, but Marshall is so incredibly talented it still seems that it was worth the gamble. Even if the Broncos traded Marshall right now they could probably get at least a 2nd for him. That's a significant upgrade on the 4th they spent on him, so in this case I don't agree with Casserly's stance.

Brandon Marshall is such an enigma because he truly does seem to care about his off-the-field perception and has taken major steps to be a better person. From what I can gather, he actually does have a good heart, but when he came into the league he was immensely immature and he still hasn't grown up all the way. Remember, even Mike Shanahan, who some say coddled his guys, had to flog Marshall to get him on the field when he was supposedly hurt. But now he willingly plays hurt, as demonstrated last year with his hip and arm issues. He seems to be different from guys who are just plain bad seeds, or maybe I'm just being a homer about him.

I see this too. It's a bit of an interesting situation. Maybe he has me and many others fooled, but Marshall always comes off as very sincire about wanting to do right. He doesn't seem to have any attitude problems, for all we know he is an excellent teammate as well. It's like there is just something off with his decision making. He can't not screw up. It's too bad, I really hope he gets things together, becasue not only is he an amazing talent, but he is genuinely likable.

SoDak Bronco · 04-17-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

From some of the whispers about Raji, I certainly wouldn't wager a #12 pick on him.

They had the same whispers about one other pretty good DT. His name was Warren Sapp. He turned out okay.

Bladerunner · 04-17-2009, 07:51 AM

I'm not sure I see the point you are trying to make. I am certain that the vast majority of the teams that passed on Brandon Marshall for three or four rounds are regretting that decision, character issues and all. I agree that teams certainly take character into account, but for every Pacman Jones or Chirs Henry who truly self-destruct, there are many more players like Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and others that prove to be huge payoffs. It's hard to measure the risk reward, but in almost all cases it drops a guy down a round or three, but rarely off the board.

SonOfLe-loLang · 04-17-2009, 08:28 AM

And this is why Charley Casserly no longer has a job.

Mountain Bronco · 04-17-2009, 08:36 AM

I don't think Brandon has caracter issues in the classic sense of the word. Pac Man yes, Brandon no. He is just a complete idiot.

supermanhr9 · 04-17-2009, 08:38 AM

You know,,, I like taking the risk side of it, because if it pays off you win championships, however if it doesnt you get fired

Bladerunner · 04-17-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supermanhr9

You know,,, I like taking the risk side of it, because if it pays off you win championships, however if it doesnt you get fired

I'm not sure that it does. Marvin Lewis still has a job. Jeff Fisher still has a job. I just don't see a lot of fallout from drafting the dirtbags. I don't like it, but it's what I see.

broncofan7 · 04-17-2009, 10:34 AM

IF we are able to get a player of Marshall's talents in the 4th round again this year because some teams opted to drop them off of the board--I would be EXTREMELY happy...

24champ · 04-17-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

And this is why Charley Casserly no longer has a job.

Bingo.

BroncoBuff · 04-17-2009, 10:45 AM

Their mistake contributed to our gain. Even if Marshall is arrested today and never plays another down, picking him was probably a net positive. On the field, anyway.

BroncoBuff · 04-17-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoDak Bronco

They had the same whispers about one other pretty good DT. His name was Warren Sapp. He turned out okay.

Yes, this Raji thing has some serious parallels to the Sapp situation.

I'd jump on him at 12.

Roh, who is that NT you're eyeing for 2010?

BroncoMan4ever · 04-17-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man-Goblin

I get it. Teams want good character guys, but Marshall is so incredibly talented it still seems that it was worth the gamble. Even if the Broncos traded Marshall right now they could probably get at least a 2nd for him. That's a significant upgrade on the 4th they spent on him, so in this case I don't agree with Casserly's stance.

Brandon Marshall is such an enigma because he truly does seem to care about his off-the-field perception and has taken major steps to be a better person. From what I can gather, he actually does have a good heart, but when he came into the league he was immensely immature and he still hasn't grown up all the way. Remember, even Mike Shanahan, who some say coddled his guys, had to flog Marshall to get him on the field when he was supposedly hurt. But now he willingly plays hurt, as demonstrated last year with his hip and arm issues. He seems to be different from guys who are just plain bad seeds, or maybe I'm just being a homer about him.

i agree. he isn't the typical bad seed that is just constantly in trouble. he is a good guy who just happens to make stupid mistakes and be in the wrong place at the wrong time. he is probably one of the niocest guys on the team and is really trying to change his off field problems.

vancejohnson82 · 04-17-2009, 10:56 AM

I was taken off Houston's draft board because i sharted my pants in church two weeks before the draft...they said I had "intenstinal issues" and they didnt want it to disturb team meetings

bap454 · 04-17-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Yes, this Raji thing has some serious parallels to the Sapp situation.

I'd jump on him at 12.

Roh, who is that NT you're eyeing for 2010?

Mount Cody?? From Oklahoma.

Gcver2ver3 · 04-17-2009, 11:12 AM

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall...

BJ Raji?...

boltaneer · 04-17-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

Frankly with Goodell's current punishment system, there isn't that much risk to taking on a troublemaker outside of the first round. Brandon Marshall is a prime example. He's still a complete bargain as a draft pick even if he ends up missing a few games here and there. The inititive to fine teams part of what the suspended player would have made during his suspension is a step in the right direction, but the actual amounts end up being miniscule.

I guess it depends on how much a team wants to put up with crap like this.

The Bengals got some good bargains in the draft talent-wise but look at what a laughing stock their team has become because of all the police blotters.

Also, I was under the impression that Goodell has the power to fine teams draft picks for off the field issue stuff that repeatedly happens. Maybe I misunderstood that because if he didn't fine the Bengals or Titans for Pac Man than I guess it's never going to happen.

Mediator12 · 04-17-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

And this is why Charley Casserly no longer has a job.

What a worthless rationale to make an argument. This one kills me. The man Retired on his own free will. THAT is why he no longer is a GM, and he does have a nice Job with the NFL Network.

This is also the guy that picked Mario Williams over Reggie Bush in his last draft. So, care to actually take a stab at the topic instead of trying to discredit the messenger?

Mediator12 · 04-17-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

Frankly with Goodell's current punishment system, there isn't that much risk to taking on a troublemaker outside of the first round. Brandon Marshall is a prime example. He's still a complete bargain as a draft pick even if he ends up missing a few games here and there. The inititive to fine teams part of what the suspended player would have made during his suspension is a step in the right direction, but the actual amounts end up being miniscule.

I think you need to review that policy. Goodell can and will dock draft picks, suspend star players, and Fine teams for taking known troublemakers in the draft. Now, some teams will assess the risk/reward and go for it anyway. There are 8-9 teams that will always reach for top players regardless of the risks. Not surprisingly, none of them have had any short or long term success recently.

Personally, the suspensions are the biggest killer with ever increasing time served for further violations. It makes the player that much less valuable a risk as a player on the bench is worth nothing on gameday. Plus, the opportunity cost is there as well.

And finally, Marshall was drafted before the policy was laid out in the current format. So, while a large risk that has somewhat paid off for DEN, his draft status was not as risky as the current group coming out.

04-17-2009, 07:30 AM	#3
TheElusiveKyleOrton www.dailydickpunch.com @RMoneyBadger Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Steamboat Springs Posts: 9,766 Adopt-a-Bronco: "Debo" Franklin	And he lasted into the fourth round. Which means a lot of folks moved him down based on this stuff, because his talent is through the roof. __________________ Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.

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04-17-2009, 07:19 AM	#1
Mediator12 OM analyst REAL Front Seven Bandwagon !!! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INDY Posts: 9,701 Adopt-a-Bronco: Malik Jackson	Brandon Marshall was taken off HOU's Draft board I was just watching NFL Path to the Draft while they were discussing the risk/reward of drafting players. They talked about three categories Game tape, injury, and character. When they got around to character, they explained what some teams were looking for as red flags when drafting players. They went through all the usual blatant stuff like selling drugs, beating women, and the like. Then, Casserly said something I knew but had never been confiremed about Marshall. He had been removed from some teams draft boards entirely due to having too much "Stuff" against him in the off field character profile. I know I have talked to people here who believed that was untrue and/or unfair. However, this is the first public confirmation of that from a former NFL GM who set a draft board. Casserly then explained he was taken off because they believed that "Stuff" would follow him into the league like it already has. And, this was before the new era of discipline suspensions was started by Goodell. I just wanted to share this with those who have contended that character should not heavily influence the scouting process and that teams should not use it to eliminate players like Marshall from consideration. It truly is a risk/reward scenario that each individual team has to assess how comfortable they are with each unique player. There are more than a few questionable players coming up in this draft, including BJ Raji. So, take this with a grain of salt but do not be surprised when players with Marshall's Talent drop again.

04-17-2009, 07:29 AM	#2
Dagmar ...there ain't no devil ..there's just God when he's drunk. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Morrison Posts: 17,132 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tim Tebow	Being a dick = costs you money. (not saying Marshall is a dick)

04-17-2009, 07:31 AM	#4
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,791	From some of the whispers about Raji, I certainly wouldn't wager a #12 pick on him.

04-17-2009, 07:31 AM	#5
want2bAbronco2 Pro Bowler Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 618	Looks like they were right to move him off there boards.

04-17-2009, 07:35 AM	#6
400HZ Ring of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,342 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ed Hochuli	Frankly with Goodell's current punishment system, there isn't that much risk to taking on a troublemaker outside of the first round. Brandon Marshall is a prime example. He's still a complete bargain as a draft pick even if he ends up missing a few games here and there. The inititive to fine teams part of what the suspended player would have made during his suspension is a step in the right direction, but the actual amounts end up being miniscule.

04-17-2009, 07:35 AM	#7
Man-Goblin Giving You The Business Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 5,588 Adopt-a-Bronco: Woodyard	I get it. Teams want good character guys, but Marshall is so incredibly talented it still seems that it was worth the gamble. Even if the Broncos traded Marshall right now they could probably get at least a 2nd for him. That's a significant upgrade on the 4th they spent on him, so in this case I don't agree with Casserly's stance. Brandon Marshall is such an enigma because he truly does seem to care about his off-the-field perception and has taken major steps to be a better person. From what I can gather, he actually does have a good heart, but when he came into the league he was immensely immature and he still hasn't grown up all the way. Remember, even Mike Shanahan, who some say coddled his guys, had to flog Marshall to get him on the field when he was supposedly hurt. But now he willingly plays hurt, as demonstrated last year with his hip and arm issues. He seems to be different from guys who are just plain bad seeds, or maybe I'm just being a homer about him.

04-17-2009, 07:51 AM	#10
Bladerunner Ring of Famer ...Two weeks from everywhere! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: California Posts: 1,125 Adopt-a-Bronco: Willis McGahee	I'm not sure I see the point you are trying to make. I am certain that the vast majority of the teams that passed on Brandon Marshall for three or four rounds are regretting that decision, character issues and all. I agree that teams certainly take character into account, but for every Pacman Jones or Chirs Henry who truly self-destruct, there are many more players like Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and others that prove to be huge payoffs. It's hard to measure the risk reward, but in almost all cases it drops a guy down a round or three, but rarely off the board.

04-17-2009, 08:28 AM	#11
SonOfLe-loLang Young Buck Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 13,211 Adopt-a-Bronco: Thunder (RIP)	And this is why Charley Casserly no longer has a job.

04-17-2009, 08:36 AM	#12
Mountain Bronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,446	I don't think Brandon has caracter issues in the classic sense of the word. Pac Man yes, Brandon no. He is just a complete idiot.

04-17-2009, 08:38 AM	#13
supermanhr9 Ring of Famer "I'm gonna burn this mother down" Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: ST. LOUIS, MO Posts: 1,266 Adopt-a-Bronco: Nobody	You know,,, I like taking the risk side of it, because if it pays off you win championships, however if it doesnt you get fired

04-17-2009, 10:34 AM	#15
broncofan7 AKA "THE STANDARD" BQ looks ALMOST as good as I do Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: BIG D Posts: 6,022	IF we are able to get a player of Marshall's talents in the 4th round again this year because some teams opted to drop them off of the board--I would be EXTREMELY happy...

04-17-2009, 10:45 AM	#17
BroncoBuff *************** Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 25,433 Adopt-a-Bronco: QUANTERUS SMITH	Their mistake contributed to our gain. Even if Marshall is arrested today and never plays another down, picking him was probably a net positive. On the field, anyway.

04-17-2009, 10:56 AM	#20
vancejohnson82 Drama and Mediocrity I'm Afraid of Ty Law Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newark, NJ Posts: 5,989 Adopt-a-Bronco: DJ	I was taken off Houston's draft board because i sharted my pants in church two weeks before the draft...they said I had "intenstinal issues" and they didnt want it to disturb team meetings

04-17-2009, 11:12 AM	#22
Gcver2ver3 Ring of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 6,629 Adopt-a-Bronco: not Lance Ball	Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall... BJ Raji?...