The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2009, 09:39 AM   #1
v2micca
Ring of Famer
 
v2micca's Avatar
 
Richard III was a field guide.

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,142
Default Under which Scenerio Do you Win, Lose, or Push on the trade.

Everyone has an opinion on this trade, I've seen it compared to the John Elway trade on one end of the spectrum to the Jeff George trade at the other. Personally, I think it is way to early to decide which end of the spectrum the Jay Cutler trade will end up falling in. However, I think by the end of the '09 Season we will definitely have a better idea.

So, these are the possible scenerios (possible in the quantum sense that all states are possible until you take the cat out of the box) under which I would consider the trade a Win, Lose, Or Push for the '09 Broncos.


Win

The Broncos parlay the draft picks into at least two impact players, finish above .500 and make the play-offs. The Bears fail to make the Play-offs.

Lose

The Broncos finish way south of .500 and our Defense shows no notable improvements. The Bears win their division and make a deep run into the play-offs possibly even the Superbowl.

Push

The Broncos finish around .500 but finish the season strong and show signs of life on the Defense. We get 1 impact player from the draft as well as several solid contributors. The Bears make it to the Play-Offs, but get eliminated in the second round.

Give me your scenarios.
v2micca is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-16-2009, 09:41 AM   #2
Rabb
No Luca, No!
 
Rabb's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,034

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dynamite Monkey
Default

Win - We draft defense

Lose - We trade up for Sanchez

Push - there is no push, we put ourselves into a win/lose situation
Rabb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:43 AM   #3
colonelbeef
Lets be friend
 
colonelbeef's Avatar
 
Elway is the new Jerry West

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,884

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Derek Wolfe
Default

anything less than 2 stars from the picks and a QB that develops into a well above average player is a total loss.
colonelbeef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:44 AM   #4
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,935

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

In about three years, we'll know.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:45 AM   #5
BroncoFiend
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoFiend's Avatar
 
The enemy's gate is down

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v2micca View Post
Everyone has an opinion on this trade, I've seen it compared to the John Elway trade on one end of the spectrum to the Jeff George trade at the other. Personally, I think it is way to early to decide which end of the spectrum the Jay Cutler trade will end up falling in. However, I think by the end of the '09 Season we will definitely have a better idea.

So, these are the possible scenerios (possible in the quantum sense that all states are possible until you take the cat out of the box) under which I would consider the trade a Win, Lose, Or Push for the '09 Broncos.


Win

The Broncos parlay the draft picks into at least two impact players, finish above .500 and make the play-offs. The Bears fail to make the Play-offs.

Lose

The Broncos finish way south of .500 and our Defense shows no notable improvements. The Bears win their division and make a deep run into the play-offs possibly even the Superbowl.

Push

The Broncos finish around .500 but finish the season strong and show signs of life on the Defense. We get 1 impact player from the draft as well as several solid contributors. The Bears make it to the Play-Offs, but get eliminated in the second round.

Give me your scenarios.
It would be unreasonable to declare the trade as a win or a loss after only this year.
BroncoFiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:46 AM   #6
TheElusiveKyleOrton
BOOM.
 
TheElusiveKyleOrton's Avatar
 
Touched By God

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 10,992
Default

Two (or more) solid players (preferably on defense) and one winning QB = win

One (or less) solid players and a so-so QB = lose

The Bears really need to be removed from the equation altogether, IMO. That defense almost willed them to the playoffs last season, so them making the playoffs this year doesn't really have any bearing. Hell, they went to the Super Bowl with the Sex Cannon a few years ago, and it was fully because of the D.
__________________
Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.
TheElusiveKyleOrton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:48 AM   #7
Rabb
No Luca, No!
 
Rabb's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,034

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dynamite Monkey
Default

the Bears put themselves in a hole for the future really, they have some amazingly glaring gaps on their team that now they cannot fix

they actually might stand to be worse off than we will if they did not hit on the trade with Cutler
Rabb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:50 AM   #8
TheChamp24
Future HOF...CHAMP BAILEY
 
TheChamp24's Avatar
 
The Legend

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Broncos Country
Posts: 5,530
Default

It is impossible to say if it is a win or loss or push even after 1 year. I'd say even 2 years.
TheChamp24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 09:51 AM   #9
no-pseudo-fan
True Orange & Blue
 
no-pseudo-fan's Avatar
 
Follow me...

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: EPT
Posts: 2,113

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Hidalgo
Default

We win with this trade if...

We can get 2 Pro Bowlers with the 1's and a solid starter with the 3rd. Orton throws more TD's than Cutler and less INT's....or

Cutler throws out his arm or knee early next season and it never the same.

We loss if....

The Bears are a Super Bowl Contender every year and we suck
no-pseudo-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:00 AM   #10
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,275

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Short-term: Bears, they got the best player in the trade

Long-term: Bears still win unless Denver can find a QB who can put up similar numbers and also do something with the picks they received.
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:06 AM   #11
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,023

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Win - We have a winning record and become a playoff team over the course of the next 5 years

Lose - We dont
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:07 AM   #12
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,023

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Short-term: Bears, they got the best player in the trade

Long-term: Bears still win unless Denver can find a QB who can put up similar numbers and also do something with the picks they received.
Completely wrong. Lets say Denver drafts defense heavy and, for the sake of argument, they all become fantastic players. With a new, improved re-vamped defense, the offense is asked to do less and we become, again for argument sake, the Ravens or steelers. If our QB becomes a caretaker and we go 12-4, who gives a **** if our QB isnt putting up similar numbers
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:18 AM   #13
SoDak Bronco
Lace em' up and lets go!!
 
SoDak Bronco's Avatar
 
Von Miller aka QB Killa

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,222

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Robert Ayers
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbmasterflash View Post
Win - We draft defense

Lose - We trade up for Sanchez

Push - there is no push, we put ourselves into a win/lose situation
based of your opinion? I trust Mayock and other top evaluators who think he is a top QB prospect and a franchise QB. If he can be had for our 3rd rounder and a 1st, why the hell not. This guy is going to be a stud, and we do need a QB now that Cutler is gone.
SoDak Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:18 AM   #14
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,712

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Completely wrong. Lets say Denver drafts defense heavy and, for the sake of argument, they all become fantastic players. With a new, improved re-vamped defense, the offense is asked to do less and we become, again for argument sake, the Ravens or steelers. If our QB becomes a caretaker and we go 12-4, who gives a **** if our QB isnt putting up similar numbers
Because in the trade we only gained 2 extra picks, so who's to say those two picks are going to be the difference on D?
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:21 AM   #15
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,023

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Because in the trade we only gained 2 extra picks, so who's to say those two picks are going to be the difference on D?
Did you actually even read what i wrote? It doesn't friggin matter, the only thing that matters in football is wins. If we win, its not a bad trade, if we lose, its a bad trade.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:24 AM   #16
TheDave
Sauced...
 
TheDave's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14,999
Default

Win: Properly replace cutler and improve the rest of the team via the draft picks.

Lose: Everything else.
TheDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:48 AM   #17
cdesignmaster
Solid Starter
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 101

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Win: Broncos go 4-12, McD gets fired, Shanahan rehired, Broncos trade 2 #1, a #3 and Orton to Chicago for Cutler and a #5

Lose: That's already happened
cdesignmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:50 AM   #18
TheElusiveKyleOrton
BOOM.
 
TheElusiveKyleOrton's Avatar
 
Touched By God

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 10,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdesignmaster View Post
Win: Broncos go 4-12, McD gets fired, Shanahan rehired, Broncos trade 2 #1, a #3 and Orton to Chicago for Cutler and a #5

Lose: That's already happened
Worst. Post. Ever.

__________________
Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.
TheElusiveKyleOrton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:52 AM   #19
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,935

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default



This is visual proof that reality trumps philosophy. This woman had an idea that swimming with the polar bears would be a wonderful experience.

Wrong.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:56 AM   #20
Rabb
No Luca, No!
 
Rabb's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,034

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dynamite Monkey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDak Bronco View Post
based of your opinion? I trust Mayock and other top evaluators who think he is a top QB prospect and a franchise QB. If he can be had for our 3rd rounder and a 1st, why the hell not. This guy is going to be a stud, and we do need a QB now that Cutler is gone.
This was an opinion post, what else would I base it on?

it is my opinion that I don't care if Sanchez is a stud or not, if we pass on 1st round defensive talent we are no better than we were at the end of the season except we have a younger QB

sorry but I guess I want to give Orton a chance with an actual defense...something we haven't seen a semblance of in 2 years at least and look how far a stud QB got us with that scenario

Last edited by Rabb; 04-16-2009 at 10:59 AM..
Rabb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 11:01 AM   #21
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,023

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post


This is visual proof that reality trumps philosophy. This woman had an idea that swimming with the polar bears would be a wonderful experience.

Wrong.
I know, i'd love to know what was going on in that woman's head. Now, panda bears i get
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 11:12 AM   #22
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,712

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Did you actually even read what i wrote? It doesn't friggin matter, the only thing that matters in football is wins. If we win, its not a bad trade, if we lose, its a bad trade.
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 11:22 AM   #23
Kaylore
4 time AFCW Champs
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
12 straight road division wins

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 47,269

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
In about three years, we'll know.
This.

It will come down to what we get with out draft picks. If we really hit on them and Cutler plays well it's a push. If we have mixed results and Cutler plays well it's lose. I would go so far to say if Cutler busts in Chi-town and we still miss on our picks it's a lose because we blew an opportunity.

Orton's success here will be a huge part of this, too. Ultimately it will take three to four years because this and next years' draft and how they pan out has to be factored.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 11:35 AM   #24
chadta
Atomic Meatball Keeper
 
chadta's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 2,934

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Mc Rib
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post


This is visual proof that reality trumps philosophy. This woman had an idea that swimming with the polar bears would be a wonderful experience.

Wrong.
actually they do that up here in ontario

http://www.polarbearhabitat.ca/
chadta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 11:41 AM   #25
DrFate
Lord of Order
 
DrFate's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tower of Fate
Posts: 4,231
Default

Win - the Broncos use the draft picks to acquire quality pieces and the Orton/Simms duo plays well enough to keep the team competitive on offense

Lose - McDaniels fired after 2 years and 10 total wins OR Cutler makes a postseason run

Push - both teams do well OR both teams struggle
DrFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:37 AM.


Denver Broncos