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Old 04-16-2009, 02:04 AM   #1
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Default Jerry Jones vs. Pat Bowlen...the lesson not learned

First of all for all you haters & blind homers who will jump on me for this and tell me to root for the Crapboys...bite me...I despise them and their arrogant fans and plastic faced owner more than any of you, especially since my taxes are helping to pay for his billion dollar toy 10 minutes from here while this town lets school kids do without and can't fix potholes.

That said...there's a lesson to be learned here. Pay attention...it's a tough one.

While this arrogant SOB is a lousy GM, he's also a pretty good owner. He wants to win passionately, something half the owners in the league don't care about as long as they make money, and second, in spite of his Al Davis-like ego...he knows when he needs to put it aside. He's a jerk on the level of Steinbrenner, he's frequently a liar, but he's not stupid...at least not on this point.

That's something I wish Bowlen had learned from Jerry. Read this:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...78/1/index.htm

For those to lazy to read, I'l summarize:

It's September 1993, the year after the Cowboys won their first of 3 Superbowls under Jones' stewardship and Jimmy Johnson's last season as coach before their historic breakup. Emmitt Smith, the NFL's leading rusher is holding out for more money at the urging of his agent, at least as much as Thurman Thomas makes. Tensions are high between the agent and the Cowboys. In racially divided Dallas, many fans see this as a black/white race issue...Aikman getting his money...Smith not. All summer the major story here in Dallas is Smith's holdout. It's now 2 games into the regular season and Smith is still sitting. He's got a contract...most of the fans here...especially the white ones...are sympathetic to Jones positon even though they want Emmitt back on the field. The relationship is deteriorating quickly. Jimmy Johnson says he thinks Emmitt's pride will keep him from reporting to the team and Emmitt confirms this.

He's not coming back.

The Crapboys are now 0-2...after coming off a 52-17 destruction of the Bills in the Superbowl...now they've just lost to them. NO NFL TEAM IN HISTORY has gone 0-2 and won the championship. Jones has an incredible roster...maybe he can win it without Smith? He's got future HOF QB Troy Aikman. He's got future HOF WR Michael Irvin. He's got the biggest, baddest O-line in the league with 4 pro bowlers. He's got all pro TE Jay Novacek. He's got pro bowlers all over the field on defense. He's got a dynamic motivational leader as head coach. He's got his first shiny Lombardi Trophy to remind fans how he's King **** in this town.

What he doesn't have is Emmitt Smith.

So what does Jerry do? Does he get frustrated and publicly blame Smith for holding out? He certainly could have. Does he give up in a huff and ship Smith to Chicago for draft picks? He could have gotten a nice haul. Does he yield to worries about the coming NFL salary cap which Smith's proposed deal might mess with? Does he team up with Johnson to strong arm arguably the teams best player?

None of the above.

Jones resists the urge to feed his ego or villify Emmitt...and knowing Smith's value to a team capable of repeating as Superbowl champion...he works out a contract for him...somehow he gets it done in spite of all the reasons/excuses he could have used to not do so. Emmitt joins the team that week, the Cowboys go 12-2 and repeat as Super Bowl Champions, their 2nd of 3 in what became the dynasty of the '90's. Smith goes on to become the NFL's leading all time rusher.

Hey Pat...you're the antithesis of Jerry...the guy behind the scenes not sticking his face into the camera all day. Great...we appreciate that...but is that enough?

Nope.

You could have learned something back then...let's hope you've learned it NOW instead...just in case this ever happens again.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:21 AM   #2
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Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't really get what Bowlen is supposed to learn from this. You assume this was all about money and about Bowlen not giving Cutler a new contract?

What about the possibility that Cutler just wanted to move on and didn't want to play for McDaniels regardless? No-one really knows the dynamics of the situation for sure...

Emmit Smith was a proven winner and pro-bowler, and was specificially aggrieved about not getting the same money as other similar players at the same kind of level. Cutler has all the potential in the world but no titles to his name yet......

Plus I haven't seen Bowlen publicly badmouth anyone. Both sides now appeared to have moved on, and Cutler certainly appears more than just a little bit happy to have got his ticket out of town, which certainly makes me think this was NOT all about contracts.

In my opinion, Cutler just didn't want to play in McDaniels Offense. Emmit just wanted a fair contract - the two situations are very different indeed, and that's probably the main reason why the outcomes were different as well...
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:06 AM   #3
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Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't really get what Bowlen is supposed to learn from this. You assume this was all about money and about Bowlen not giving Cutler a new contract?

What about the possibility that Cutler just wanted to move on and didn't want to play for McDaniels regardless? No-one really knows the dynamics of the situation for sure...

Emmit Smith was a proven winner and pro-bowler, and was specificially aggrieved about not getting the same money as other similar players at the same kind of level. Cutler has all the potential in the world but no titles to his name yet......

Plus I haven't seen Bowlen publicly badmouth anyone. Both sides now appeared to have moved on, and Cutler certainly appears more than just a little bit happy to have got his ticket out of town, which certainly makes me think this was NOT all about contracts.

In my opinion, Cutler just didn't want to play in McDaniels Offense. Emmit just wanted a fair contract - the two situations are very different indeed, and that's probably the main reason why the outcomes were different as well...

i agree. if the situation remained Shanahan and Bates and the rest of the offense still the same and Jay holding out throwing a hissy fit over money, then i can see how this particular situation could be of use to Pat. Jay one of the top QBs in the league off a pro bowl season making a lot less compared to the other elite QBs in the league, and him wanting a fair deal would have been one thing. but once Mike was gone and McDaniels contemplated trading him, Jay had his mind made up that he wanted out, and wasn't calling for a new deal, but calling out for a new team.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
In my opinion, Cutler just didn't want to play in McDaniels Offense. Emmit just wanted a fair contract - the two situations are very different indeed, and that's probably the main reason why the outcomes were different as well...
So Cutler didn't want to play for an offense tailored to make QBs great... by the man who designed to greatest offense in history and then made a high-school starting QB decent enough..... and Cutler didnt want to play for this system? he wanted to rather throw balls in the frigid Soldier fields with its strong winds that gave it a reputation of waterloo for QBs?

Shanny and Bates are not in the NFL this season.... so any coach he played for would be a new one.... and Cutler consciously wanted to play for a conservative offense with no WRs and a crappy OL than for an offensive genius on an immensely QB friendly system with a great OL and great WRs??

Sometimes I think people on this board have completely lost it.... its nice and healthy to be optimistic and try to accept the situation and put a positive spin to it.... but being optimistic shouldn't lead to being delusional.....

Bowlen could have opened up his checkbook and saved the day... he didnt.... the Broncos could still be good.... but they sacrificed a shot at greatness...... guess really wants to win.. as long he doesnt have to pay too much for it....
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:09 AM   #5
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So Cutler didn't want to play for an offense tailored to make QBs great... by the man who designed to greatest offense in history and then made a high-school starting QB decent enough..... and Cutler didnt want to play for this system? he wanted to rather throw balls in the frigid Soldier fields with its strong winds that gave it a reputation of waterloo for QBs?
He hasn't shown good judgment or the ability to think long term (see the drinking thread). He probably didn't think about this at all.

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Bowlen could have opened up his checkbook and saved the day... he didnt.... the Broncos could still be good.... but they sacrificed a shot at greatness...... guess really wants to win.. as long he doesn't have to pay too much for it....
Three years left on his contract, one Pro Bowl, and no winning seasons to his name.

The guy didn't warrant a fat new contract. If he thought he did then that's a big problem. Do we really want a drunk self entitled QB in the locker room?
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:17 AM   #6
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Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't really get what Bowlen is supposed to learn from this. You assume this was all about money and about Bowlen not giving Cutler a new contract?
How you managed to come up with that bizarre conclusion is beyond me. The lesson is quite simple; Jerry faced a situation far more frustrataing...not one in March mind you...four months before training camp...but one that lasted all the way into the regular season itself. Yet HE DISPLAYED PATIENCE AND DID NOT PANIC. Pat did panic...which is why no matter what Cutler/his agent were or were not doing...at the end of the day...it was March, not September. Jones had plenty of reason to throw in the towel and trade Emmitt but he didn't. The lesson here is not about contracts...it's about putting aside the sports biggest ego and doing what was right for the team, not what was right for him to "win". It could be pointed out that Jones later failed to remember his own actions and lost his patience when he was dealing with Johnson. That however, was an issue of fundamental control of the team...unlike the Emmitt situation. That is probably what prompted Pat to ignore patience...I think he got his panties in a wad over Cutler seemingly not liking the direction that he chose for the team. In any case...he gave up on this situation, where Jones didn't.
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Emmit Smith was a proven winner and pro-bowler, and was specificially aggrieved about not getting the same money as other similar players at the same kind of level. Cutler has all the potential in the world but no titles to his name yet......
Meaningless. Dumping a 26 y/o franchise QB is more radical than terminating a running back, even one of Smith's capabilities. Jones could have easily taken the approach that he still had the most talented roster in the NFL...he didn't. He knew Smith was a straw that stirred the drink...as was Cutler.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:24 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by atomicbloke View Post
So Cutler didn't want to play for an offense tailored to make QBs great... by the man who designed to greatest offense in history and then made a high-school starting QB decent enough..... and Cutler didnt want to play for this system? he wanted to rather throw balls in the frigid Soldier fields with its strong winds that gave it a reputation of waterloo for QBs?

Shanny and Bates are not in the NFL this season.... so any coach he played for would be a new one.... and Cutler consciously wanted to play for a conservative offense with no WRs and a crappy OL than for an offensive genius on an immensely QB friendly system with a great OL and great WRs??

Sometimes I think people on this board have completely lost it.... its nice and healthy to be optimistic and try to accept the situation and put a positive spin to it.... but being optimistic shouldn't lead to being delusional.....

His actions say all you say is true because all he had to do was pick up the phone....

Bowlen could have opened up his checkbook and saved the day... he didnt.... the Broncos could still be good.... but they sacrificed a shot at greatness...... guess really wants to win.. as long he doesnt have to pay too much for it....
His actions say all you say is true because all he had to do was pick up the phone....

As for your money angle Bowlen has never been cheap, to the contrary he has been overly generous and there are many examples of that.

Cutler wanted to be the gun slinging saviour and the team first concept did not appeal to him and McD's different style of no nonsense coaching bruised Jays fragile ego.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:26 AM   #8
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I understand the point of this article, but listen to the premise of your argument.

You are comparing us to a team that just won the Superbowl.

That team has one missing piece holding out.

The owner bucks up to do the right thing.


In reality, we had one of the historically worst defenses in the NFL - ever. We were nowhere close to sniffing a superbowl.

If you want to wrap us in Cowboys history, how about comparing this to the Herschel Walker trade that allowed Jimmy Johnson to rebuild his team and get to the Superbowl you mentioned in the article. Jimmy traded away one of the leagues best players to get draft picks and rebuild both sides of his team. The rest..... is the history you mentioned.

They never would have won the superbowls without trading away their best player - Herschel Walker.

The sword has two edges.

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Old 04-16-2009, 06:28 AM   #9
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So some believe Bowlen is a drunk idiot. Wow, that's enlightening and even though we can't do anything about that, let's start countless threads about it anyway.

Next, more threads of how McDaniels is stupid and Cutler is headed to the HOF. We haven't had enough of them.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:30 AM   #10
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I would have waited to see if Jay showed up for camp.

I remember alot of guys saying that they would be fired for not answering their boss's phone calls, but even when you're on vacation? Because the way I see it, Jay was basically on vacation, free to do whatever the **** he wanted to do.

Pat should have waited. If Jay didn't show up for camp, then trade him.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:32 AM   #11
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So Cutler didn't want to play for an offense tailored to make QBs great... by the man who designed to greatest offense in history and then made a high-school starting QB decent enough..... and Cutler didnt want to play for this system? he wanted to rather throw balls in the frigid Soldier fields with its strong winds that gave it a reputation of waterloo for QBs?
I'm getting tired of this Matt Cassel miracle crap.

Do a little research on Cassel. The myth is being propagated that Cassel was some idiot who wandered in off the streets who hadn't thrown a pass since high school and barely knew what a tackling dummy was. The truth is Cassel was a Parade All American...the 8th ranked QB in the nation...when he went to USC, and while he did not start, he did play. He was super talented to begin with. He also had the unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your POV) distinction of sitting behind not 1 but 2 Heisman winners and 1st round picks in Carson Palmer and Matt Leinert. He was also in the Pats system for 3 years learning it before he started. All Cassel is...is a backup guy who learned the Patriots offense, already had unrefined talent when he got there...and got his chance 3 years later. If you want to consider him based on his high school playing days and not the fact that he was highly talented, had the opportunity to learn a pro style offense at USC, got to serve as understudy to 2 1st round picks...AND got to play in Belicheat's system...be my guest. That radically skews the truth however.
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Shanny and Bates are not in the NFL this season.... so any coach he played for would be a new one.... and Cutler consciously wanted to play for a conservative offense with no WRs and a crappy OL than for an offensive genius on an immensely QB friendly system with a great OL and great WRs??
Nonsense. He undoubtedly made the decision to leave once he found out he was being lied to...something Bowlen did with the Goodmans as well...not just Jay. And if you think McHoodie's an "offensive genius" based on his OC work...consider the so-so work of Gary Kubiak once he became the HC. It's a different ball game when the buck stops with you. If this cat turns Griese clone Orton into Brady then we can start talking genius material.
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Bowlen could have opened up his checkbook and saved the day... he didnt....
It had nothing to do with his checkbook...everything to do with his professionalism and integrity. We have Belicheat's disciple and a guy who has started behaving in a way none of us knew he was capable of prior to this running this thing. We can ignore that and glibly predict a pending Superbowl run while assaulting Cutler...or we can learn observing this thing objectively, which includes the Goodman's experience as well as Cutler's. Either way...I remain a fan of the team.

Not really much of a Bowlen/McDaniels fan however...
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:38 AM   #12
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I'm getting tired of this Matt Cassel miracle crap.

Do a little research on Cassel. The myth is being propagated that Cassel was some idiot who wandered in off the streets who hadn't thrown a pass since high school and barely knew what a tackling dummy was. The truth is Cassel was a Parade All American...the 8th ranked QB in the nation...when he went to USC, and while he did not start, he did play. He was super talented to begin with. He also had the unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your POV) distinction of sitting behind not 1 but 2 Heisman winners and 1st round picks in Carson Palmer and Matt Leinert. He was also in the Pats system for 3 years learning it before he started. All Cassel is...is a backup guy who learned the Patriots offense, already had unrefined talent when he got there...and got his chance 3 years later. If you want to consider him based on his high school playing days and not the fact that he was highly talented, had the opportunity to learn a pro style offense at USC, got to serve as understudy to 2 1st round picks...AND got to play in Belicheat's system...be my guest. That radically skews the truth however.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Or...ssional_career

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Orton played for Purdue, where he wore uniform No. 18 in honor of former Nebraska Cornhuskers' quarterback Brook Berringer, who died in a plane crash in 1996.[1] Orton grew up a Husker fan, but chose to attend a program with a stronger passing attack. Orton tied former Purdue quarterback Drew Brees' record for the number of passing yards in a game (522 vs. Indiana Hoosiers) and is one of only three Purdue quarterbacks to start at least three consecutive bowl games (Brees and Mark Herrmann being the other two). Orton started in the 2001 Sun Bowl, the 2002 Sun Bowl, the 2003 Capital One Bowl, and the 2004 Sun Bowl. During his time at Purdue, Orton joined the Pi Kappa Alpha Fraternity.

In 2004, Orton was the preseason third-team "All-American" quarterback, behind USC's Matt Leinart and Oklahoma's Jason White. Orton had a nice start to the season, having led Purdue to a 5-0 start with 18 touchdowns and no interceptions. Orton was touted as the front runner for the Heisman Trophy, until he received multiple injuries in consecutive games against Michigan and Northwestern that forced him out of his starting position for a month.
Looks like Kyle has a bit of natural talent to him as well. I think it's fair to hope and assume that McDaniels can do something with him.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:50 AM   #13
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I would have waited to see if Jay showed up for camp.

I remember alot of guys saying that they would be fired for not answering their boss's phone calls, but even when you're on vacation? Because the way I see it, Jay was basically on vacation, free to do whatever the **** he wanted to do.

Pat should have waited. If Jay didn't show up for camp, then trade him.
They could have waited to trade him before Camp and gotten what? Picks in next years and the following years draft, a new QB who had not spent the whole offseason learning the system, and an even bigger media fiasco than the one this offseason?

Patience in this case is not prudence to rebuild right now. It would simply have set the franchise even further back another year. RB's are replaceable midseason, QB's are not.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:54 AM   #14
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I understand the point of this article, but listen to the premise of your argument.

You are comparing us to a team that just won the Superbowl.

That team has one missing piece holding out.

The owner bucks up to do the right thing.
Not exactly...though I understand why it looks that way. I'm comparing two guys who faced losing arguably (in Smith's case) the key to their offense, and exhibited radically different courses of action. Jones...with a HUGE ego...swallowed his pride and paid Smith. Bowlen...dumped his franchise QB, not two games into the season, but almost FOUR MONTHS before training camp. It's about patience and not having an ego-induced panic attack, not where the team was at the time. Keep in mind...nobody knew the Cowboys would repeat and win a 3rd Lombardi at this point. As for Denver...multiple posters...the majority I'd say...on this very board, repeatedly stated prior to this trade that the only thing we lacked was a defensive overhaul.

Just the mere act of dumping Shanny and his sock puppet DC would fix part of that problem. A solid two drafts would have brought this defense to at least respectability...and MANY people in here were convinced we didn't even need a great defense with Cutler & Co. running a high powered attack that only lacked a feature back...something we all considered as a piece we might already have had in-house due to the development of Hillis. In other words...the majority of posters on this board, just a few weeks ago figured we could be competing for at least the playoffs and probably more...within two years. This in fact is why so many people wanted Spaggs over McDaniels.
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If you want to wrap us in Cowboys history, how about comparing this to the Herschel Walker trade that allowed Jimmy Johnson to rebuild his team and get to the Superbowl you mentioned in the article. Jimmy traded away one of the leagues best players to get draft picks and rebuild both sides of his team. The rest..... is the history you mentioned.
Terrible comparison. Jimmy traded a running back who was 28 years old and had 5 years of wear and tear on him off of a young team that would never have been competitive before Walker was worn out. He got 11 players in return...5 players and 6 draft picks...which turned into Emmitt Smith, Darren Woodson, Kevin Smith, Russel Maryland, Issac Holt, Jessie Solomon and Darin Nelson...you're going to compare that to getting 2 #1's, one we already know is mid-first...the next one probably later...on what planet are you living? Walker played 4 more season, and was never a major force after the trade. I'm pretty certain Cutler will be around a lot longer.
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You stabbed yourself with both of them.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:55 AM   #15
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what a ****ing lame ass thread
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:01 AM   #16
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They could have waited to trade him before Camp and gotten what? Picks in next years and the following years draft, a new QB who had not spent the whole offseason learning the system, and an even bigger media fiasco than the one this offseason?
You're assuming the wait would result in a trade. Jones didn't wait in order to trade...he waited in order to work it out. That's the point.
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Patience in this case is not prudence to rebuild right now. It would simply have set the franchise even further back another year. RB's are replaceable midseason, QB's are not.
We had Simms already slated for the system. If Boy Genius is as great as some of you think he is, he's more than sufficient to build with. In fact I'm not certain he doesn't actually beat Orton out of the starting job.

Face it...Pat puked under pressure...plastic face didn't. How bad is it when one can use Jerry freaking Jones to illustrate a lesson Bowlen should have mastered?
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:04 AM   #17
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Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't really get what Bowlen is supposed to learn from this. You assume this was all about money and about Bowlen not giving Cutler a new contract?

What about the possibility that Cutler just wanted to move on and didn't want to play for McDaniels regardless? No-one really knows the dynamics of the situation for sure...

Emmit Smith was a proven winner and pro-bowler, and was specificially aggrieved about not getting the same money as other similar players at the same kind of level. Cutler has all the potential in the world but no titles to his name yet......

Plus I haven't seen Bowlen publicly badmouth anyone. Both sides now appeared to have moved on, and Cutler certainly appears more than just a little bit happy to have got his ticket out of town, which certainly makes me think this was NOT all about contracts.

In my opinion, Cutler just didn't want to play in McDaniels Offense. Emmit just wanted a fair contract - the two situations are very different indeed, and that's probably the main reason why the outcomes were different as well...
This.

Cutler DEMANDED A TRADE. What part of that are you not getting?
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:05 AM   #18
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As for your money angle Bowlen has never been cheap, to the contrary he has been overly generous and there are many examples of that.
Nothing to do with money...that's been proven so move on.
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Cutler wanted to be the gun slinging saviour and the team first concept did not appeal to him and McD's different style of no nonsense coaching bruised Jays fragile ego.
Hogwash. Cutler if anything, would have loved playing in an offense already renowned for making "a high school quarterback" into an NFL player. This is simply more self induced propaganda.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:06 AM   #19
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This.

Cutler DEMANDED A TRADE. What part of that are you not getting?
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:12 AM   #20
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footstepsfrom#27 - "Pat did panic...which is why no matter what Cutler/his agent were or were not doing...at the end of the day...it was March, not September. Jones had plenty of reason to throw in the towel and trade Emmitt but he didn't. The lesson here is not about contracts...it's about putting aside the sports biggest ego and doing what was right for the team"


I agree, and it's the most important point of this entire stupidity.

If Bowlen honestly wanted to keep Cutler here, he could have at any point up to and including the first two weeks of the regular season.

Cutler, and especially not his sleazebag agent Bus Cook, would never sacrifice a year of his career holding out.

There was plenty of time to work through the disagreements, and the speculation that Cutler just wanted out is just that, speculation. Cutler even said he wanted to work things out.

I really love the Broncos. I just hope this bungling doesn't haunt them for years.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:17 AM   #21
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Not exactly...though I understand why it looks that way. I'm comparing two guys who faced losing arguably (in Smith's case) the key to their offense, and exhibited radically different courses of action. Jones...with a HUGE ego...swallowed his pride and paid Smith. Bowlen...dumped his franchise QB, not two games into the season, but almost FOUR MONTHS before training camp. It's about patience and not having an ego-induced panic attack, not where the team was at the time. Keep in mind...nobody knew the Cowboys would repeat and win a 3rd Lombardi at this point. As for Denver...multiple posters...the majority I'd say...on this very board, repeatedly stated prior to this trade that the only thing we lacked was a defensive overhaul.

Just the mere act of dumping Shanny and his sock puppet DC would fix part of that problem. A solid two drafts would have brought this defense to at least respectability...and MANY people in here were convinced we didn't even need a great defense with Cutler & Co. running a high powered attack that only lacked a feature back...something we all considered as a piece we might already have had in-house due to the development of Hillis. In other words...the majority of posters on this board, just a few weeks ago figured we could be competing for at least the playoffs and probably more...within two years. This in fact is why so many people wanted Spaggs over McDaniels.

Terrible comparison. Jimmy traded a running back who was 28 years old and had 5 years of wear and tear on him off of a young team that would never have been competitive before Walker was worn out. He got 11 players in return...5 players and 6 draft picks...which turned into Emmitt Smith, Darren Woodson, Kevin Smith, Russel Maryland, Issac Holt, Jessie Solomon and Darin Nelson...you're going to compare that to getting 2 #1's, one we already know is mid-first...the next one probably later...on what planet are you living? Walker played 4 more season, and was never a major force after the trade. I'm pretty certain Cutler will be around a lot longer.

You stabbed yourself with both of them.
You seem very willing to find facts to back your distinct opinion. If you are asking us to change your opinion, i'm just not interested.

The deal is done, history is being written, it's time to move on and support the team. Facts show this could go either way, regardless of your opinion. That's why the Herschel Walker trade is very relevant. The trade was made with their "best" player to rebuild the team. Those picks were parlayed into several necessary components of their SB teams. Those are facts, regardless of how irrelevant they seem to you.

The whole Emmitt situation would have never happened without the Walker trade. There's the important point.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:26 AM   #22
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I'm getting tired of this Matt Cassel miracle crap.

1. Do a little research on Cassel. The myth is being propagated that Cassel was some idiot who wandered in off the streets who hadn't thrown a pass since high school and barely knew what a tackling dummy was. The truth is Cassel was a Parade All American...the 8th ranked QB in the nation...when he went to USC, and while he did not start, he did play. He was super talented to begin with. He also had the unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your POV) distinction of sitting behind not 1 but 2 Heisman winners and 1st round picks in Carson Palmer and Matt Leinert. He was also in the Pats system for 3 years learning it before he started. All Cassel is...is a backup guy who learned the Patriots offense, already had unrefined talent when he got there...and got his chance 3 years later. If you want to consider him based on his high school playing days and not the fact that he was highly talented, had the opportunity to learn a pro style offense at USC, got to serve as understudy to 2 1st round picks...AND got to play in Belicheat's system...be my guest. That radically skews the truth however.

2. Nonsense. He undoubtedly made the decision to leave once he found out he was being lied to...something Bowlen did with the Goodmans as well...not just Jay. And if you think McHoodie's an "offensive genius" based on his OC work...consider the so-so work of Gary Kubiak once he became the HC. It's a different ball game when the buck stops with you. If this cat turns Griese clone Orton into Brady then we can start talking genius material.

3. It had nothing to do with his checkbook...everything to do with his professionalism and integrity. We have Belicheat's disciple and a guy who has started behaving in a way none of us knew he was capable of prior to this running this thing. We can ignore that and glibly predict a pending Superbowl run while assaulting Cutler...or we can learn observing this thing objectively, which includes the Goodman's experience as well as Cutler's. Either way...I remain a fan of the team.

Not really much of a Bowlen/McDaniels fan however...
1. Cassel is not an idiot, but the single most important factor in determining future success for a QB is College Starts and reps. The guys who did not have a big resume all paid their dues in arena Ball or NFL Europe getting needed starts. However, the system did help Cassel in NE, just like it helped Brady initially because they do a great job of taking the pressure off the QB and putting it on the whole team.

2. The nonsense is you taking at face value the fact that Cutler decided to want to leave DEN when he was bartered. He was not lied to, that is a huge subjective jump in logic. He viewed it as being lied to, but the reality was he was being considered to be traded and he did not like it. The thing that always amazes me is people taking his reaction to the situation as the gospel on what happened. Just because someone does not like the situation they find themselves in does not make it a lie. If he had been told that he would never be considered in a trade or trade conversations, then that would be a lie. This is just a relative perception of being insulted. He called it a lie because it served his purpose.

Also, did you ever stop to consider he wanted out of DEN before that even occurred? Do you think that Maybe that was why DEN listened to options for a trade in the first place? Just because that part may have never been made public, does not exclude it from being a possibility.

3. Anyone who uses a pejorative to describe someone has no need to use the Professionalism and integrity card as an argument for someone else's actions. Seriously, it screams hypocrite and severe emotional bias.

As for the Goodman's, that was handled in house and no one here has any idea why they lost the power struggle. When Shanahan was fired it created a major power vacuum. People repositioned themselves to take advantage of that. Obviously, someone in that group gambled and lost. Most people believe that was on Jeff Goodman's head. Just like David Gibbs did to Larry Coyer several seasons ago that led to his midseason firing. When was the last time you saw an NFL assistant coach Fired midseason? Head coaches and Coordinators get fired, but a DB coach? It does not happen. Jeff Goodman reaped what he sowed and Jim got caught in the crossfire it seems.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:31 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
You seem very willing to find facts to back your distinct opinion. If you are asking us to change your opinion, i'm just not interested.

The deal is done, history is being written, it's time to move on and support the team. Facts show this could go either way, regardless of your opinion. That's why the Herschel Walker trade is very relevant. The trade was made with their "best" player to rebuild the team. Those picks were parlayed into several necessary components of their SB teams. Those are facts, regardless of how irrelevant they seem to you.

The whole Emmitt situation would have never happened without the Walker trade. There's the important point.
Last night I was ridiculed for comparing the trade to its rightful companion...the Elway one. Now I'm hearing this compares to the Walker deal for 11 players.

Go figure...
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:58 AM   #24
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Footsteps, you should go root for the Cowboys.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:07 AM   #25
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I'm sure that at any time during Emmit's holdout, if Jerry Jones called to talk about things, Emmit picked up. Cutler chose to give the owner the silent treatment. Something tells me that anyone that gives Jerry Jones the silent treatment aren't long for a ticket out of Dallas as well.

There are some similarities and perhaps even lessons here, but this analogy isn't as sound as you thing it is.
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