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Old 04-15-2009, 05:00 PM   #1
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I was picking last weekend and i almost went the same order. I almost did 80% similar to this. Except for the fact that i let josh freeman drop out of 1st round. But the 2 picks by denver is the what i had

12 Jackson
18 Cushing.

How many of you think this draft can happen. I am very much sold now that KC got zach/vrebel and investedin QB they will go with OT and not the stud LB like this draft adresses

Discuss...
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:09 PM   #2
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Another tidbit on the same link;

Early this month, the Chicago Bears paid a high price to end a long search for their franchise quarterback. The deal, which sent Jay Cutler to the Bears in exchange for Kyle Orton and a slew of draft picks, generated strong opinions regarding whether the price paid by the Monsters of the Midway was too high, or simply the going rate for a quarterback of Cutler’s stature.

Eyebrows were raised when the Bears met the Broncos' demand of two first-round picks (No. 18 in 2009 as well as the Bears’ No. 1 in 2010) in addition to a flip-flop of third- and fifth-rounders this year – plus Orton. Most NFL executives treat draft picks, especially early ones, like bars of the purest gold, and the Bears paid a steep price.

So, who got the better end of the Jay Cutler trade?

We posed this question to NFL fans on Scout.com via the web poll on the front page of the network’s NFL home page, and nearly 5,000 fans responded over the last week.

Their conclusion? By a narrow margin of 47.8% to 43.4%, Scout.com visitors felt that the Broncos bounty of draft picks had the edge. 8.8% of visitors felt that it was a fair trade, with both teams getting equal value.

The closeness of the results illustrate how critical the position of quarterback is considered to be in today’s NFL. After all, Scout visitors are essentially saying a proven and talented quarterback is roughly the equivalent of a talent injection of four players in the NFL draft, plus a veteran quarterback with a lesser arm. If Cutler leads the Bears to a Super Bowl win, fans won’t have much concern over the price the team paid.

This week, visit Scout.com’s NFL home page to show your prognostication skills as we ask visitors “Which draft pick will be the first to be invited to the Pro Bowl?”
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:12 PM   #3
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What are the odds that the Bears fo to the SB this year?

Seem slim to me......
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:24 PM   #4
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What are the odds that the Bears fo to the SB this year?

Seem slim to me......
There odds of making SB is slim, but if they win the division we are at a loss. I would like them to finish anywhere around 6-10.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by baja
Most NFL executives treat draft picks, especially early ones, like bars of the purest gold, and the Bears paid a steep price.
Great observation there, draft picks are such pie-in-the-sky. Half of even first-rounders bust out. Dont get me wrong, I like optimism, but reality has to sink in at some point, and the reality is we'll get:

1 Impact player
1 Contributor
1 Bust

And that's not worth a proven Pro Bowl quarterback.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:35 PM   #6
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Great observation there, draft picks are such pie-in-the-sky. Half of even first-rounders bust out. Dont get me wrong, I like optimism, but reality has to sink in at some point, and the reality is we'll get:

1 Impact player
1 Contributor
1 Bust

And that's not worth a proven Pro Bowl quarterback.
May be.. But what if, just for argument... You find 3 great players with those picks. Trade the picks you got and accumulate and make it count for 3 impact players in 2-3 years. Then isn't is worth it. With or Without Jay we are not a SB contender. So lets drop that.

Also weren't you the one who was asking cant we all be happy and co-exist. If you want to co-exist why are all your threads trying to dig up past and argumentative ?
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:36 PM   #7
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Al Wilson, Sam Brandon and Tim Crowder are a good approximation of what we'll get with those picks.

Al Wilson, Sam Brandon and Tim Crowder are not worth Jay Cutler.


Now if Jim Goodman were still here, I'd have confidence we'll score on these picks, but Josh chased him off, too. So we're in uncharted waters with a very inexperienced group.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BroncoBuff View Post
Great observation there, draft picks are such pie-in-the-sky. Half of even first-rounders bust out. Dont get me wrong, I like optimism, but reality has to sink in at some point, and the reality is we'll get:

1 Impact player
1 Contributor
1 Bust

And that's not worth a proven Pro Bowl quarterback.
Right.

Robert Irsay got two impact players and another throw in QB. Nobody thinks he won the trade.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:39 PM   #9
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Also weren't you the one who was asking cant we all be happy and co-exist. If you want to co-exist why are all your threads trying to dig up past and argumentative ?
Yes I did say that, and I plan to do just that beginning this Friday night at midnight, one week before Dreaft Day, as promised. Blind fanatical fan-ness starts then ... but until then, reality will have to suffice

I don't think I'm being "argumentative," I'm mostly stating facts and likelihoods.


*EDIT* - Great point, footsteps ... and that was a best-case scenario.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:41 PM   #10
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That guy is an idiot--no way that AZ drafts a TE--they have Pope and Ben Patrick. I DO NOT like Tyson Jackson @12... he is a Marcus Spears clone--and Clay Matthews will be a 1st round bust.............I'd rather have Ayers @ 18........
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:52 PM   #11
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Half of even first-rounders bust out. Dont get me wrong, I like optimism, but reality has to sink in at some point, and the reality is we'll get:

1 Impact player
1 Contributor
1 Bust

And that's not worth a proven Pro Bowl quarterback.
Couldn't have said it better myself. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:35 PM   #12
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Right.

Robert Irsay got two impact players and another throw in QB. Nobody thinks he won the trade.
Am I reading this incorrectly, or are you comparing Cutler to Elway?
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:36 PM   #13
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Al Wilson, Sam Brandon and Tim Crowder are a good approximation of what we'll get with those picks.

Al Wilson, Sam Brandon and Tim Crowder are not worth Jay Cutler.

Just out of curiosity, how did you come up with the formula for this?
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:40 PM   #14
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Am I reading this incorrectly, or are you comparing Cutler to Elway?
Ya imagine him implying Elway could even hold the jock of the great Cutler who passed for over 4,000 yards. and can rifle a pass between thee defenders and not have it intercepted most of the time. Heck the guy is 17 & 23 after only two years when did Elway ever have numbers like that plus he can throw harder than Elway and drink more beer too.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:40 PM   #15
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Am I reading this incorrectly, or are you comparing Cutler to Elway?
I know that's the cardinal sin here, but it's highly possible Cutler could win two Superbowls as well. The comparison is one of franchise QB's being swapped for draft picks. Irsay hit on two pro bowlers...he still got screwed.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:43 PM   #16
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I know that's the cardinal sin here, but it's highly possible Cutler could win two Superbowls as well. The comparison is one of franchise QB's being swapped for draft picks. Irsay hit on two pro bowlers...he still got screwed.
Cutler could win two Super Bowls, but he will never be another Elway, and I say this as a football fan, not a Broncos fan. You are wayyyyyyy overrating Cutler IMO on this. Elway? Come on.....
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:45 PM   #17
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Ya and if Cutler is half the QB Elway was than we will all agree with you but moopy is no Elway not even close. Talk to me in 5 years if he is even still in the league which I doubt unless he makes a big turn around.

Cutler will FAIL save this post and show it to me in a couple years for a good laugh or a "You were right" post.....
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:46 PM   #18
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Right.

Robert Irsay got two impact players and another throw in QB. Nobody thinks he won the trade.
And Jay Cutler is a HoF QB now? The only reason nobody thinks he won the trade is because Elway became arguably the best ever. Cutler will never be that.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:47 PM   #19
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Cutler could win two Super Bowls, but he will never be another Elway, and I say this as a football fan, not a Broncos fan. You are wayyyyyyy overrating Cutler IMO on this. Elway? Come on.....
Did I say he was another Elway? His skill set is similar, but that's not the point; that being the history of franchise QB's traded for draft picks and what is done with those picks, in this case...Irsay hitting on both but still living to regret the move. You admit Cutler could win 2 Superbowls...if he does, you won't care what we got in return.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:49 PM   #20
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And Jay Cutler is a HoF QB now? The only reason nobody thinks he won the trade is because Elway became arguably the best ever. Cutler will never be that.
You too, are missing the point.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:51 PM   #21
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Did I say he was another Elway? His skill set is similar, but that's not the point; that being the history of franchise QB's traded for draft picks and what is done with those picks, in this case...Irsay hitting on both but still living to regret the move. You admit Cutler could win 2 Superbowls...if he does, you won't care what we got in return.
Mean while we could win 6 without him. Dude you got this kid so blown out of proportion it is sad to read.

Fact he is under 500

Fact, he did not even call Bowlen

Fact, he deserted his team

Fact, he continually makes bad decisions on the field

Fact, he has health issues

Fact, he is a poor leader

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Old 04-15-2009, 06:53 PM   #22
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Did I say he was another Elway? His skill set is similar, but that's not the point; that being the history of franchise QB's traded for draft picks and what is done with those picks, in this case...Irsay hitting on both but still living to regret the move. You admit Cutler could win 2 Superbowls...if he does, you won't care what we got in return.
What exactly makes Cutler a franchise QB anyway? At what point was it determined he was ordained a franchise QB? When I think of franchise QB's in today's NFL, I think Manning or Brady. Maybe Roethlisberger. These guys have won. Just throwing for alot of yards playing catch up with what everyone admits is a lousy defense doesn't make anyone a franchise QB. Until Cutler starts winning meaningful games, winning playoff games, winning games he has no business winning, making you slap your forehead in amazement at his accomplishments, he is not a franchise QB IMO.

And when I said Cutler could win two Super Bowls, it was not in the context that I expect him too, but rather even if he did, he STILL won't be another Elway.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:58 PM   #23
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I know that's the cardinal sin here, but it's highly possible Cutler could win two Superbowls as well. The comparison is one of franchise QB's being swapped for draft picks. Irsay hit on two pro bowlers...he still got screwed.
Not if Elway played baseball as threatened.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:02 PM   #24
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What exactly makes Cutler a franchise QB anyway? At what point was it determined he was ordained a franchise QB? When I think of franchise QB's in today's NFL, I think Manning or Brady. Maybe Roethlisberger. These guys have won. Just throwing for alot of yards playing catch up with what everyone admits is a lousy defense doesn't make anyone a franchise QB. Until Cutler starts winning meaningful games, winning playoff games, winning games he has no business winning, making you slap your forehead in amazement at his accomplishments, he is not a franchise QB IMO.

And when I said Cutler could win two Super Bowls, it was not in the context that I expect him too, but rather even if he did, he STILL won't be another Elway.
No quarterback characterized as a "franchise" QB by pro scouts has won a single NFL game. Based on talent, Cutler's a franchise quarterback. He has all the tools...as did Elway. Of the players you listed, every one has a superior team around him, something Cutler did not have.

Quarterbacks are not pitchers...even Elway never won it all without a team around him.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:04 PM   #25
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Not if Elway played baseball as threatened.
True...which means unlike Bowlen, Irsay actually had an legitimate excuse.
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