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Old 04-13-2009, 09:16 AM   #1
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Default What if we trade #12 for a 1st Rounder in 2010?

By nearly all accounts I've read, this is a very weak draft, which to my way of thinking this means the assets we have are worth less, especially near the top of the draft. Some say the value at the top 10 picks is very poor and the talent level at 18-32 is basically the same. I don't like trading up...and I'm not sure how much we'd profit by trading down since other teams know they're not getting great value when the move higher.

Here's a thought...

Why not trade one of our 1st round picks to a team likely to suck this year for their 1st rounder in 2010? It would probably need to be the #12 pick, but so what? It sounds like the 18th is just as good or nearly so. This happens pretty often...a team is either enamored with a certain guy they can't get otherwise because they don't have extra picks this year or else they're simply taking a "cross that bridge when we come to it" approach to losing a 1st rounder next year. Since this is a weak draft and next year is stronger, why keep the extra pick if we can move it? Even if we guessed wrong and somebody has a better than expected year, this year's #12 might be no better than next year's 25th. In fact Mayock and others are saying that's true of this year anyway...so in a stronger draft next year the 25th pick might actually be BETTER than this year's #12 pick...and certainly cheaper to pay.

Going into a stronger 2010 draft with 3 #1 picks would be sweet, especially since we'll have a much better idea what our QB situation looks like by then. The FO would also have been through one draft so they'd have had some time to make any adjustments necessary. Assume for the sake of argument that we trade the #12 pick to the Bills and they finish next season with the 15th pick in the draft. Let's say we finish 7-9 this year and have the 10th pick in 2010 plus Chicago's pick...probably in the 23-30 range....I'll say 26. That would give us picks at 10, 15 and 26 which would easily give us the ammo to move up high enough for almost any player in the draft we want, including a franchise QB (if Orton proves he's not the guy). If Orton proves he's the answer then we have 3 #1 picks in a stronger draft to build the defense with. We could even conceivably wind up with multiple picks in the top 4 rounds with this approach.

Discuss...
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:24 AM   #2
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I would trade #18 for a 1st in 2010 and a high 2nd rounder. I am hoping Freeman falls and this becomes reality. The going rate is a 1st the following year and a 2nd. I will never forget the draft when Quinn was taken. The Browns traded back into the 1st round for a 1st the following year and their 2nd. By the way this was one pick after the Broncos that was traded away for the stud Jarvis Moss (we traded up with the Jags). The Panthers traded back into the 1st round last year. I think they did they same deal.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:29 AM   #3
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I'd be more for trading down this year and maybe picking up a first day pick next year for doing it. I think the top 10 of the draft will be expensive, this year... but after that, I believe we'll see some good bargains.

The sooner we can start developing some of this young talent, the better. Plus, we have two 1st rounders next year, already.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:29 AM   #4
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I would trade #18 for a 1st in 2010 and a high 2nd rounder. I am hoping Freeman falls and this becomes reality. The going rate is a 1st the following year and a 2nd. I will never forget the draft when Quinn was taken. The Browns traded back into the 1st round for a 1st the following year and their 2nd. By the way this was one pick after the Broncos that was traded away for the stud Jarvis Moss (we traded up with the Jags). The Panthers traded back into the 1st round last year. I think they did they same deal.
That would be even better but I doubt we could get them to take the 18th instead of the 12th and since this draft is weaker I left off the additional pick...but that would utterly rock if we could do it.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:30 AM   #5
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I'd be more for trading down this year and maybe picking up a first day pick next year for doing it. I think the top 10 of the draft will be expensive, this year... but after that, I believe we'll see some good bargains.

The sooner we can start developing some of this young talent, the better. Plus, we have two 1st rounders next year, already.
Why builld up more assets in a weaker draft?
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:32 AM   #6
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The only way I see the Broncos able to trade the #12 pick for a 1st rounder next year, among other things probably, is a team picking in the 20's who wants a QB, assuming Sanchez is still there. And even that is iffy.

But there has to be player a team really wants badly to make such a move and if there is such a player, one would think the Broncos would be taking that guy themselves at 12.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:33 AM   #7
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That would be even better but I doubt we could get them to take the 18th instead of the 12th and since this draft is weaker I left off the additional pick...but that would utterly rock if we could do it.
It would be utterly retarded to swap first picks for one next year, unless you are also getting a pick (2nd rounder) in return this year. And enough with the "weak draft" ****. This is not the NBA. There are great players ALL throughout a football draft.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:38 AM   #8
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It would be utterly retarded to swap first picks for one next year, unless you are also getting a pick (2nd rounder) in return this year. And enough with the "weak draft" ****. This is not the NBA. There are great players ALL throughout a football draft.
It's only retarded if you believe you'll get the same or better player this year that you would next year. And no...there are definitely weak drafts in the NFL too. I'm asking why keep a 1st rounder in a weak draft if you can get a better player and possibly for cheaper in the next one? Besides...we may need to get a QB next year and while 2 #1's might not do it...3 almost surely would.

In any case...if someone wants to give us a another pick this year so much the better.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #9
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The only way I see the Broncos able to trade the #12 pick for a 1st rounder next year, among other things probably, is a team picking in the 20's who wants a QB, assuming Sanchez is still there. And even that is iffy.
Why is that iffy? We made a deal like that with the Skins.
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But there has to be player a team really wants badly to make such a move and if there is such a player, one would think the Broncos would be taking that guy themselves at 12.
How so? Every team has different needs and different rankings. Who would have thought Cleveland trades to get Quinn?

I'm asking if you like the idea, not if you think it's possible.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
It would be utterly retarded to swap first picks for one next year, unless you are also getting a pick (2nd rounder) in return this year. And enough with the "weak draft" ****. This is not the NBA. There are great players ALL throughout a football draft.
There are guys who BECOME great players all throughout the draft. If they were great players coming out of college, they wouldn't be 6th and 7th round picks. Just because teams get lucky on a guy late, which occur in every draft, does not mean this draft isn't weak at the top.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:47 AM   #11
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We might need some stimulus help from Obama to negotiate three 1st round draft picks in the same year?
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:48 AM   #12
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I don't think Denver is in a position at all to be sacrificing the ability to get better through the draft this year. Yes, I too believe this draft is pretty "average" at some positions, but there are quality players who are immediate upgrades over many current players on our roster all over the draft board. At least din my opinion. I like where we're at as far as the draft goes; even with talent pool concerns.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:50 AM   #13
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I would be open to trading 18 for either a 3rd this year and a 1st and 4th next year or a player and a 1st next year.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:02 AM   #14
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a first rounder this year carries more value than a 1st rounder next year...

besides, McD says he's trying to win now...unlike most of you, i believe him...
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:04 AM   #15
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a first rounder this year carries more value than a 1st rounder next year...
Only for this year.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:24 AM   #16
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I'd love to do that. Who knows, we may luck out and the team we trade with can completely suck that year and we could have a bidding war on one of the top qbs in the draft.

This draft is pretty pathetic and next year looks pretty promising. Do it!
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:33 AM   #17
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This draft is weak in QBs, RBs, WRs, DTs and DEs, but pretty solid in LBs and DBs. McD has announced he'll be going after the BPA at each pick. I assume that means they won't reach just based on need. That's the right way to go about this draft. Get a couple of good LBs, a good safety and CB. Just pick the good stuff. Leave the bad.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:47 AM   #18
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We already have 2 first round picks in 2010....we don't need 3.

I say keep both of them this year.

I could see trading down with one of our first rounders and maybe picking up a 2nd or 3rd round pick in 2010.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:48 AM   #19
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After reading this and just about every other draft related article I can find... I disagree about the talent in this years draft. Sure if we had a top 5 pick this would not be a good year for that, but with 12 & 18 there is plenty of talent that can help us out.

Four NFL Team Employees Rate for us the Top Twenty Prospects for the 2009 Draft
  1. Jason Smith OT Baylor Scouts Take: “Smith has all of the tools and the most upside of any of the prospects. He is strong, smart and is void of any off-field issues that could hinder a team with such a high pick.”
  2. Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest Scouts Take: “Curry is a football player. He can play any of the LB spots in a 3-4 or a 4-3. He has character and a love for the game. We only rank Smith higher based on OT as a bigger position than a LB.”
  3. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia Scouts Take: “Monroe is a football player. We love everything about him. In fairness to the young man the only thing that separates him from Smith is that Smith has a little better upside, but still a safe and great pick.”
  4. Brian Orakpo DE Texas Scouts Take: “Orakpo is a great athlete who is very fast. Will he take to the coaching of the NFL that he didn’t get at Texas or will he be like a Shaun Rogers and even Roy Williams who have all the talent, but aren’t the most coachable? We think his motor is great and in interviews comes off as very teachable and hungry.”
  5. Andre Smith OT Alabama Scouts Take: “This young man is the most talented player in the draft. Without the off field issues that plague him he would CLEARLY be the best player in the draft. Again, without the off-field issues he would be clearly better than Thomas (Joe of the Browns) and Long (Jake) of the Dolphins. He has so many questions, but he has so much talent that you can’t logically rate him any lower than fifth.”
  6. Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State Scouts Take: “This youngster is nothing short of a stud. We haven’t looked at a TE this high in sometime. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest with an upside that matches Smith at OT. We have even looked at ways to move up. He is a star who loves the game and practice. We looked hard at his off-field demeanor and are convinced he is a great kid.”
  7. Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech Scouts Take: “He has all the tools. Reminds us a lot of Calvin Johnson. Some questions about size, but the tapes don’t lie and there isn’t another receiver in this class that is in his.”
  8. Aaron Maybin DE PSU Scouts Take: “The only negative on this kid is his size. He loves the game of football and all aspects including working out and practice. His speed is what separates him. He will flourish in an NFL strength and conditioning system.”
  9. Robert Ayers DE Tennessee Scouts take: “This is a kid whose out of season workouts and play impressed us and moved him up the board. He hasn’t played a lot of football, and he is raw. He can play the game of football and totally took responsibility for some off-field and maturity issues early in his career. His interviews and checking him out really helped as he has a proven track record of setting himself right.”
  10. Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia Scout Take: “Superb vision and balance and an ability to make good plays. Unlike his QB Stafford, he played better against better competition and will add bulk. He doesn’t have the injury fears of Wells and is the best all around and NFL ready RB in the draft.”
  11. Everett Brown DE Florida State Scouts Take: “Super character, super athlete and speed. Hasn’t played a lot of football at DE, but is explosive and can flat out rush the QB. Not as advanced as Ayers, but three years in they will be mirror images of each other.”
  12. Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri Scouts Take: “Not as talented as Crabtree, but he is an incredible athlete and has talent. Where as Crabtree will go anywhere to catch a football, he can hear the footsteps over the middle. That one attribute separates him from being good and great like Crabtree.”
  13. Tyson Jackson DE LSUScouts Take: He is the best rush defender of any of them, but struggles with the rush. He is brutal at the point of attack and strong, so he can grow into more. His rush skills alone warrant him this high, but he is somewhat of a project.”
  14. BJ Raji DT Boston College Scouts Take: “He has a lot of mass and at times can be an immovable object. The problem is that he will be going against guys most of the time on the OL that have those same skills and are more mobile. I will look forward to seeing your list because I doubt others have him as low as we do, but for all the talent there are some issues.”
  15. Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio StateScouts Take: Jenkins is a rare talent that can play CB or S. Probably better suited for a CB in a Tampa Two type scheme, but still the best skills of any of the DB’s and with a versatility that can play dual spots he is invaluable. Because of his size, he can match up with the Calvin Johnsons and the bigger body receivers in short areas.”
  16. Michael Oher OT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Another OT with great skills. Some concern off of the field until you really look at him and do your research. He has all the talents and skills and is a well developed young man. The only issue is the depth of his desire to play and get better. He is simply way too talented to go too far down the draft and we would gladly snap him up anywhere post 15.”
  17. Brian Cushing LB USC Scouts Take: “Great instincts, motor, and plays heads up. Great at the point of attack and is able to shed blockers well. He is almost too much of a muscle builder and it affects his movements. Some concern off-field, but will be a good pro football player.”
  18. Rey Maualuga LB USC Scouts Take: “Dominant player when he wants to be. He can also take off plays and that hurts him in being rated any higher. He has such a high motor that at times gets overzealous and will miss plays by over pursuing. Great raw talent and is a good locker room guy. Off-field concerns for us however.”
  19. Peria Jerry DT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Can puncture the line, create turmoil and move in all directions well. He is married with kids and has his head on straight. Not a physical specimen so will have to adapt to that part of the NFL. If he were a committed gym rat with the physique of some others he would be a top five guy. He isn’t, but seems to be willing to do so. In the NFL he won’t be able to automatically overpower and out-speed guys so that is the only issues with his game.”
  20. Percy Harvin WR Florida Scouts Take: “He is a rare athlete who can catch, do kickoffs and punt returns. He has speed that simply can’t be overlooked and has good hands. He is a risk and we have some concerns away from the field. With that said this is the NFL and we have a tendency to overlook some issues with that much talent. Some at least, just maybe not us.”
http://spartannation.com/?p=6083
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:08 AM   #20
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I like the idea, Footsteps, because it would give us a shot at Cherokee Sam, who is an outstanding kid with outstanding talent, outstanding brains and seems tailor made for the Patroit offense.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:13 AM   #21
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No. I want instant gratification, this instant!!!

We play to win the game.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:14 AM   #22
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Good list, Dave.... and I totally agree. I love the 12-18 range for bargain-hunting.

SOMEONE will fall to both of our picks, whether it's a guy like Brown, Jackson, Maulaluga, Raji, etc.

I absolutely love where we're sitting in the first round.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:15 AM   #23
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After reading this and just about every other draft related article I can find... I disagree about the talent in this years draft. Sure if we had a top 5 pick this would not be a good year for that, but with 12 & 18 there is plenty of talent that can help us out.

Four NFL Team Employees Rate for us the Top Twenty Prospects for the 2009 Draft
  1. Jason Smith OT Baylor Scouts Take: “Smith has all of the tools and the most upside of any of the prospects. He is strong, smart and is void of any off-field issues that could hinder a team with such a high pick.”
  2. Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest Scouts Take: “Curry is a football player. He can play any of the LB spots in a 3-4 or a 4-3. He has character and a love for the game. We only rank Smith higher based on OT as a bigger position than a LB.”
  3. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia Scouts Take: “Monroe is a football player. We love everything about him. In fairness to the young man the only thing that separates him from Smith is that Smith has a little better upside, but still a safe and great pick.”
  4. Brian Orakpo DE Texas Scouts Take: “Orakpo is a great athlete who is very fast. Will he take to the coaching of the NFL that he didn’t get at Texas or will he be like a Shaun Rogers and even Roy Williams who have all the talent, but aren’t the most coachable? We think his motor is great and in interviews comes off as very teachable and hungry.”
  5. Andre Smith OT Alabama Scouts Take: “This young man is the most talented player in the draft. Without the off field issues that plague him he would CLEARLY be the best player in the draft. Again, without the off-field issues he would be clearly better than Thomas (Joe of the Browns) and Long (Jake) of the Dolphins. He has so many questions, but he has so much talent that you can’t logically rate him any lower than fifth.”
  6. Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State Scouts Take: “This youngster is nothing short of a stud. We haven’t looked at a TE this high in sometime. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest with an upside that matches Smith at OT. We have even looked at ways to move up. He is a star who loves the game and practice. We looked hard at his off-field demeanor and are convinced he is a great kid.”
  7. Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech Scouts Take: “He has all the tools. Reminds us a lot of Calvin Johnson. Some questions about size, but the tapes don’t lie and there isn’t another receiver in this class that is in his.”
  8. Aaron Maybin DE PSU Scouts Take: “The only negative on this kid is his size. He loves the game of football and all aspects including working out and practice. His speed is what separates him. He will flourish in an NFL strength and conditioning system.”
  9. Robert Ayers DE Tennessee Scouts take: “This is a kid whose out of season workouts and play impressed us and moved him up the board. He hasn’t played a lot of football, and he is raw. He can play the game of football and totally took responsibility for some off-field and maturity issues early in his career. His interviews and checking him out really helped as he has a proven track record of setting himself right.”
  10. Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia Scout Take: “Superb vision and balance and an ability to make good plays. Unlike his QB Stafford, he played better against better competition and will add bulk. He doesn’t have the injury fears of Wells and is the best all around and NFL ready RB in the draft.”
  11. Everett Brown DE Florida State Scouts Take: “Super character, super athlete and speed. Hasn’t played a lot of football at DE, but is explosive and can flat out rush the QB. Not as advanced as Ayers, but three years in they will be mirror images of each other.”
  12. Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri Scouts Take: “Not as talented as Crabtree, but he is an incredible athlete and has talent. Where as Crabtree will go anywhere to catch a football, he can hear the footsteps over the middle. That one attribute separates him from being good and great like Crabtree.”
  13. Tyson Jackson DE LSUScouts Take: He is the best rush defender of any of them, but struggles with the rush. He is brutal at the point of attack and strong, so he can grow into more. His rush skills alone warrant him this high, but he is somewhat of a project.”
  14. BJ Raji DT Boston College Scouts Take: “He has a lot of mass and at times can be an immovable object. The problem is that he will be going against guys most of the time on the OL that have those same skills and are more mobile. I will look forward to seeing your list because I doubt others have him as low as we do, but for all the talent there are some issues.”
  15. Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio StateScouts Take: Jenkins is a rare talent that can play CB or S. Probably better suited for a CB in a Tampa Two type scheme, but still the best skills of any of the DB’s and with a versatility that can play dual spots he is invaluable. Because of his size, he can match up with the Calvin Johnsons and the bigger body receivers in short areas.”
  16. Michael Oher OT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Another OT with great skills. Some concern off of the field until you really look at him and do your research. He has all the talents and skills and is a well developed young man. The only issue is the depth of his desire to play and get better. He is simply way too talented to go too far down the draft and we would gladly snap him up anywhere post 15.”
  17. Brian Cushing LB USC Scouts Take: “Great instincts, motor, and plays heads up. Great at the point of attack and is able to shed blockers well. He is almost too much of a muscle builder and it affects his movements. Some concern off-field, but will be a good pro football player.”
  18. Rey Maualuga LB USC Scouts Take: “Dominant player when he wants to be. He can also take off plays and that hurts him in being rated any higher. He has such a high motor that at times gets overzealous and will miss plays by over pursuing. Great raw talent and is a good locker room guy. Off-field concerns for us however.”
  19. Peria Jerry DT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Can puncture the line, create turmoil and move in all directions well. He is married with kids and has his head on straight. Not a physical specimen so will have to adapt to that part of the NFL. If he were a committed gym rat with the physique of some others he would be a top five guy. He isn’t, but seems to be willing to do so. In the NFL he won’t be able to automatically overpower and out-speed guys so that is the only issues with his game.”
  20. Percy Harvin WR Florida Scouts Take: “He is a rare athlete who can catch, do kickoffs and punt returns. He has speed that simply can’t be overlooked and has good hands. He is a risk and we have some concerns away from the field. With that said this is the NFL and we have a tendency to overlook some issues with that much talent. Some at least, just maybe not us.”
http://spartannation.com/?p=6083
Wow...

No Stafford, no Sanchez.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:17 AM   #24
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There are guys who BECOME great players all throughout the draft. If they were great players coming out of college, they wouldn't be 6th and 7th round picks. Just because teams get lucky on a guy late, which occur in every draft, does not mean this draft isn't weak at the top.
That's the whole point. It's funny that we all know draft experts should be taken with a grain of salt because this **** is hard to predict, yet you're all buying into the "weak draft." It might seem like a weak draft now, but maybe it'll be quite strong.

And its silly to just swap first round picks for one next year. You have no clue how good that team will be. Remember when we got Washington's pick a few years back, we all thought it would be top 5. Then suddenly Washington got good again.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:19 AM   #25
OBF1
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Trading our #12 this year for the possibility of getting a higher pick next year is crazy. You never know what tram will go Dolphins on you are go from 1-15 to 10-6.

There are plenty of good players in the 1st round to go after this year.
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