The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion > NFL Draft Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-10-2009, 08:30 PM   #1
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,542
Default NFP Specialty Rankings: 3-4 Defense

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...s-3-4-defense/

NFP Specialty Rankings: 3-4 Defense

In the final part of the National Football Post’s position analysis, we take a closer look at the nation’s top 3-4 defensive prospects. Every year, more NFL teams are in need of unique 3-4 position players, so let’s break down the top guys at each spot.
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-10-2009, 08:33 PM   #2
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,542
Default

I am impressed that they have Frantz Joseph, Florida Atlantic as the 3rd ranked 3-4 ILB.
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 12:30 AM   #3
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Interesting stuff to say the least.

1. Gilbert as the top 5 Technique in the draft? What are they smoking?
Gilbert has some major warning red flags like being inconsistent in a weak conference, not being very physical or tough as a DL, not being able to anchor against the run or Double team, and he struggled to beat OT's who will never see the light of day in an NFL camp let alone Real OT's. The guy does have tremendous upside, but you do not call a player with Upside the best 5 technique in the whole draft. Especially, when the 5 tech is a grinder gap control position and the guy is a one gap quickness type player.

2. I just got some film of Vaughn Martin, need to grade it though. He could be the highest DL drafted who did not attend the combine. Or, he could be the next Walter Thomas

3. They left off Marlon Favorite of LSU as a NT at the next level. He is much more suited to play NT than Myron Pryor IMHO or several other of those "BIG" players they list as potential NT's.

4. However, I hate the big body argument against playing the run. NT is about attitude, lower body strength, technique, and explosion. The player has to be able to play a 2 gap style and not the single gap most 4-3 fronts utilize. These players are really rare.

Gabe Watson was supposed to be one coming out, but he was not. He could not hold the POA despite his size. The attitude to be a grunt worker is missed by a lot of DT's coming out of College because they all want to be the next Warren Sapp Pass rusher. They do not want to be the 2 gap guy who does the work every down and gets little glory. Attitude is the key to playing the run and very few guys are team players who will do the grunt work for the playmakers anymore. Everyone wants to one gap and have the opportnity to be the guy to make the play every snap.

5. Scott McKillop would make a great 3-4 ILB. So will Nick Reed a former All-American DE for Oregon. Reed Reminds me of Teddy Bruschi and ILB in a 3-4 will be his best position at the next level.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 01:29 AM   #4
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Interesting stuff to say the least.

1. Gilbert as the top 5 Technique in the draft? What are they smoking?
Gilbert has some major warning red flags like being inconsistent in a weak conference, not being very physical or tough as a DL, not being able to anchor against the run or Double team, and he struggled to beat OT's who will never see the light of day in an NFL camp let alone Real OT's. The guy does have tremendous upside, but you do not call a player with Upside the best 5 technique in the whole draft. Especially, when the 5 tech is a grinder gap control position and the guy is a one gap quickness type player.
I completely agree.

Last edited by SouthStndJunkie; 04-11-2009 at 01:36 AM..
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 10:01 AM   #5
Kaylore
4 time AFCW Champs
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
12 straight road division wins

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 47,213

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?
Kaylore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 11:18 AM   #6
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?
Jay Ratliff at 302 pounds starting NT for Dallas.
elsid13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 05:58 PM   #7
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?
Kelly Gregg in BAL, Jason Ferguson in MIA, and the aforementioned Jay Ratliff in DAL. Ngata played more NT for BAL this year with Gregg injured, but that has not been his primary position in their defense despite the perception. Heck, they even used him as a rush LB in their nickle sets


Personally, I think 310 is the perfect weight for a NT because I want them to be quicker laterally and able to play the counter at the POA. Some guys like Jenkins, Williams, and Rodgers are freakishly quick for 330 lb guys though. However, it does affect there stamina in games and they play in a heavy rotation.

Last edited by Mediator12; 04-12-2009 at 06:01 PM..
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 06:20 PM   #8
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,903
Default

Med good call on Gilbert. The NFLN draft crew(Maylock and others) were talking about teams thinking about moving him to LT, because he wasn't nasty enough.
elsid13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 06:49 PM   #9
epicSocialism4tw
Tebowing the long haul
 
all the way to the title

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 36,774

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post

5. Scott McKillop would make a great 3-4 ILB. So will Nick Reed a former All-American DE for Oregon. Reed Reminds me of Teddy Bruschi and ILB in a 3-4 will be his best position at the next level.
Terrible.

How can anyone think that you know what you are talking about when you dare compare players to The Bruschi?
epicSocialism4tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 07:06 PM   #10
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nćstved, DK
Posts: 11,209

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Kelly Gregg in BAL, Jason Ferguson in MIA, and the aforementioned Jay Ratliff in DAL. Ngata played more NT for BAL this year with Gregg injured, but that has not been his primary position in their defense despite the perception. Heck, they even used him as a rush LB in their nickle sets


Personally, I think 310 is the perfect weight for a NT because I want them to be quicker laterally and able to play the counter at the POA. Some guys like Jenkins, Williams, and Rodgers are freakishly quick for 330 lb guys though. However, it does affect there stamina in games and they play in a heavy rotation.
I like a NT to be in the 315 to 320 area, I want him to be at least as big as the center he will face.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 09:22 PM   #11
eddie mac
Ireland's No1 Bronco
 
eddie mac's Avatar
 
Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 17,269

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rod Smith
Default

Ratliff is very average NT but a very good 3-4 end yet the pricks that run the Dallas Cowboys seem set on keeping him there. For some reason he cant defend the run at all from the Nose position yet when they move him back to DE he does it very well.
eddie mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 09:43 PM   #12
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McSkillet View Post
Terrible.

How can anyone think that you know what you are talking about when you dare compare players to The Bruschi?
The master needs a pupil to complete the cycle. Soon, The Bruschi will leave the NFL with his disciple in place. He shall Be Called The Reed.....
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 09:48 PM   #13
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie mac View Post
Ratliff is very average NT but a very good 3-4 end yet the pricks that run the Dallas Cowboys seem set on keeping him there. For some reason he cant defend the run at all from the Nose position yet when they move him back to DE he does it very well.
Dallas is unique in how they approach the 3-4. They one gap more with their front seven and allow the NT to penetrate rather than play both A-gaps. Most 3-4 Base fronts play two gap along the DL and variable according to coverage from the LB's and Safeties.

What is interesting about Ratliff is he does OK against Double teams, he just can not anchor at the POA. He can get off and split OK, but the guys around him do not fill the gap he does not take very well. I think the Phillips Version of the 3-4 is much more pass rush friendly than run friendly to a NT.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 08:01 AM   #14
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,092
Default

interesting list. So Wes is saying that Curry cant or shouldnt play in a 3-4 apparently. Also, no Laurinitus, which i have been saying here forever just doesnt fit the 3-4 scheme, he will get washed out of too many plays.
But no Curry?!?!
Suprised Barwin is as high as he is, notice no Orakpo anywhere? I think that guy could be a huge bust. No Maybin either. Another guy who scares me in the 3-4 at the next level.
I think Cushing is a guy DEN should target. I just thinks hes plain good, and yes, will get better.

Med, whats your take of Dorell Scott?!?!?
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 09:35 AM   #15
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

I need to make a thread about Scott. I'll break him down as a NT there, but he is the guy no one is talking about that could be a real good if not better option than those 2 at NT. He has a better mentality than either Brace or Raji to play a non-glamour position of NT. In fact, he is the top NT prospect I have on my board because of that. He can play NT in either a 4-3 or a 3-4 and that makes him very valuable in this draft. Very few players with his size, skill, and mentality playing DT coming out.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 09:44 AM   #16
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
I need to make a thread about Scott. I'll break him down as a NT there, but he is the guy no one is talking about that could be a real good if not better option than those 2 at NT. He has a better mentality than either Brace or Raji to play a non-glamour position of NT. In fact, he is the top NT prospect I have on my board because of that. He can play NT in either a 4-3 or a 3-4 and that makes him very valuable in this draft. Very few players with his size, skill, and mentality playing DT coming out.
See this is what i was thinking a while back. I really only watched a few Clemson games, and i never really focused in on him. I was always either watching the RBs (obviously) or i was watching their secondary. As of then, a safety was a more important factor with DEN, so thats where i was at then. Fun team to watch regardless. But as i looked more and more at NT prospects, his size and weight alone fit the mold, then a few analysts said he had the ability to play both a DT or the coveted NT at the next level, so i just put him in a few mocks to fill a spot, but it seems he really has some serious potential to be a true power NT. This could really be good news for DEN in terms of Brace possibly being gone by #48.

I would love to get your complete overview of him if possible.
Thanks
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 02:57 PM   #17
rugbythug
Church Eyes.
 
rugbythug's Avatar
 
Salty Dog

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,069

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mr. Miller
Default

What about Powell as our NT? I keep coming back to this. He seems like the Right kind of Mentality for the position, Judging from his interviews and Bio.
rugbythug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 09:49 PM   #18
Elway777
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,886
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rugbythug View Post
What about Powell as our NT? I keep coming back to this. He seems like the Right kind of Mentality for the position, Judging from his interviews and Bio.
I also read that he is up to 325 pounds. If the Broncos miss out on a Nose tackle in draft then Fields and Powell could do a good job.
Elway777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 11:35 AM   #19
Mediator12
OM analyst
 
Mediator12's Avatar
 
Roby AND Latimer?Who the Hell Knew?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: INDY
Posts: 10,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway777 View Post
I also read that he is up to 325 pounds. If the Broncos miss out on a Nose tackle in draft then Fields and Powell could do a good job.
Where did you hear powell was @ 325? That is a lot of weight to put on in one year, but he has the right mentality and skillset to play NT in the NFL. That would be huge for DEN to get a guy like Powell to be a Rotational NT with Fields.

Thanks Elway777.
Mediator12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 01:03 PM   #20
Elway777
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,886
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Where did you hear powell was @ 325? That is a lot of weight to put on in one year, but he has the right mentality and skillset to play NT in the NFL. That would be huge for DEN to get a guy like Powell to be a Rotational NT with Fields.

Thanks Elway777.
I read it at Football future message board for the Broncos.
Elway777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 02:21 PM   #21
rugbythug
Church Eyes.
 
rugbythug's Avatar
 
Salty Dog

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,069

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mr. Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator12 View Post
Where did you hear powell was @ 325? That is a lot of weight to put on in one year, but he has the right mentality and skillset to play NT in the NFL. That would be huge for DEN to get a guy like Powell to be a Rotational NT with Fields.

Thanks Elway777.
Depends on what the weight looked like. Not that hard to put on the weight Raji and Brace have hanging about their midsection. I mean I did it in less than a semester when I first started college. And that was with out even trying.
rugbythug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 03:26 PM   #22
azbroncfan
Ring of Famer
 
azbroncfan's Avatar
 
Angry guntoting,meateating AMERICAN

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 8,644

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TEBOW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?
I'm surprised you didn't know that one of your Zoobie players for the steelers plays effective in place of Hampton.
azbroncfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Denver Broncos