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Old 04-09-2009, 09:28 AM   #1
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The Broncos really messed this Jay Cutler-Kyle Orton trade up. People keep saying we robbed the Bears, but I don't see it that way. We got an "OK QB" and late-teen, first-round pick, and the pick next year will more then likely be in the late 20s. If one of the picks ends up being a bust, then we totally lost out.
-- Joe Solomon, Denver

Joe - This trade will come back to bite the Broncos in the trailing end of Thunder, or whatever the current name of the horse that is ridden around after touchdowns. Which may not happen often next year. The horse probably is excited about the trade.

If I had been Denver, I would have demanded that in the trade, the Bears had to keep Orton. People think Cutler is a bit weird. Wait until they find out about Orton and his father. All I can say is that when something happens with my daughter's career, I don't get on the Internet with everyone and talk about it.

My friend Mike Klis claims that Orton is about as good as Matt Cassel. Well, lick my wounds, eat my dust. The Broncos better get something big from this year's first-round pick and third-round pick because, like you, I feel that Chicago's first-round pick next year will be late in that round. The Bears will win their division and be a factor in the NFC playoffs. The Broncos might win six games.

The Broncos got a lot from the Bears (if you consider Orton much), but I'd still rather have Cutler. He was a fool throughout the process, but the other
side was more foolish. I still maintain that Kid McKid had bigger fish to fry, and shouldn't have sautéed his quarterback. He told me the other day that when teams called, he had to listen.

"I wasn't going to hang up."


When telemarketers call my mother, I tell her to hang up. She doesn't have to listen. Neither did he.
its his god damn job woody. someone calls and says we can give you a QB who runs your system very well (as opposed to the brett favre school of QB: duck and throw into triple coverage) as well as a first and some other **** to make the TEAM better, hes supposed to go all jay cutler, slam the phone down plug his ears and go lalalalala?

is everyone this stupid?
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:34 AM   #2
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....I don't have a problem with what he said.

and McDonk lied to the 'player'.....cutler handled it poorly

every bronco fans needs to erase the last 15 years when thinking about next season. Everything will be different...EVERYTHING
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:34 AM   #3
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The Broncos totally screwed this up. At the very least, we've set our organization back a couple of years. Hopefully not longer.

I personally put the blame on Pat. He sent the wrong message to Cutler when he said "Obviously, Jay's the man around here now." Then there's the whole issue where Jay says Pat assured him that the offense wasn't going to change - and then Pat says that meeting didn't happen. No wonder Jay didn't want to take the guy's phone calls anymore. How can he believe anything he had to say?

Cutler could have handled it better. But so could Pat, Josh, and everyone else involved. I put the onus on the leaders of the organization - the ones who claim that the buck stops with them.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:35 AM   #4
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When telemarketers call my mother, I tell her to hang up. She doesn't have to listen. Neither did he.

Well, who can argue with that kind of rock-solid logic?
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:36 AM   #5
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The Broncos totally screwed this up. At the very least, we've set our organization back a couple of years. Hopefully not longer.

I personally put the blame on Pat. He sent the wrong message to Cutler when he said "Obviously, Jay's the man around here now." Then there's the whole issue where Jay says Pat assured him that the offense wasn't going to change - and then Pat says that meeting didn't happen. No wonder Jay didn't want to take the guy's phone calls anymore.

Cutler could have handled it better. But so could Pat, Josh, and everyone else involved. I put the onus on the leaders of the organization - the ones who claim that the buck stops with them.
the one who refused to talk to the coach or owner of the team is the one to blame. can you defend him not talking to the coach or owner, absolutely refusing to talk, requesting a trade then saying he didnt want to get traded? really?
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:36 AM   #6
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Going 4-12 will definitely be different.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:38 AM   #7
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We traded Cutler!?!
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
The Broncos totally screwed this up. At the very least, we've set our organization back a couple of years. Hopefully not longer.
.
Jay Cutler screwed it up by not doing what he signed a piece of paper to do.

Yes, his tender ass could have been gently patted more effectively by the entire organization, but in the end... his childish behavior illuminated things to such an extent that this decision had to be made.

As for us being set back "years," you have no proof of that. If we win eight games, you'll just insist that we would have won 12 with Cutler. No matter how this plays out, those who refused to see the reality of the Shanahan firing will be using this Cutler trade to try to justify their skewed position for years to come.

Honestly... if we win a Superbowl next year, the usual suspects will be around here saying that we "could have won it better" if Cutler was still here.

You stay pessimistic and sad, bro. Many of us are excited about the future of this team, and have a bit better understanding of how proper championship teams are built.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:42 AM   #9
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....I don't have a problem with what he said.

and McDonk lied to the 'player'.....cutler handled it poorly

every bronco fans needs to erase the last 15 years when thinking about next season. Everything will be different...EVERYTHING
So true--I was on the fire Shanny bandwagon--but ONLY to get a real GM in here and to get a defensive minded coach who would KEEP the offensive system intact. Never in my WILDEST imagination did I think that Bowlen would not only hire an offensive HC, but then trade our FRANCHISE QB for what amount to some stock options. Next year will Be VERY different and I have a feeling that we will be subjected to only 2 seasons of the McD regime. Bold prediction sure not to come true: Kubes will be fired this season by the Texans and he will be Denver's HC at the start of the 2011 season (or later if there is a lockout)
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:43 AM   #10
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The Broncos totally screwed this up. At the very least, we've set our organization back a couple of years. Hopefully not longer.

I personally put the blame on Pat. He sent the wrong message to Cutler when he said "Obviously, Jay's the man around here now." Then there's the whole issue where Jay says Pat assured him that the offense wasn't going to change - and then Pat says that meeting didn't happen. No wonder Jay didn't want to take the guy's phone calls anymore. How can he believe anything he had to say?

Cutler could have handled it better. But so could Pat, Josh, and everyone else involved. I put the onus on the leaders of the organization - the ones who claim that the buck stops with them.
mark it down... the 2009 broncos will win more games than the Cutler-led 2008 broncos.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:43 AM   #11
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Woody is spot-on.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:43 AM   #12
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the one who refused to talk to the coach or owner of the team is the one to blame. can you defend him not talking to the coach or owner, absolutely refusing to talk, requesting a trade then saying he didnt want to get traded? really?
Yes, I can. I don't think he really wanted to get traded. I think that he thought that the Broncos would want to smooth things over with a new contract. They called his bluff - he's gone. Good for them for being tough, except that they cut off their noses to spite the face of the organization in the process.

And I can absolutely defend him for not talking to the coach or the owner. At that point, he'd been lied to and misled by both of them. What are they going to say? Sorry? Money talks, BS walks.

37% blame on Bowlen.
37% blame on McDaniels.
25% blame on Jay.

I put a lot of stock in people being truthful and up front. I can't blame Jay too much for reacting when he felt like he was being lied to. I think he probably could and should have picked up the phone when the calls were coming in, but I can understand why he'd think "whatever, you're FOS - talk to my agent if you want to say something."

I wish the Broncos would have handled this in a manner that wouldn't have given Jay any room to believe that they were FOS. But that's water under the bridge.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Jay Cutler screwed it up by not doing what he signed a piece of paper to do.

Yes, his tender ass could have been gently patted more effectively by the entire organization, but in the end... his childish behavior illuminated things to such an extent that this decision had to be made.

As for us being set back "years," you have no proof of that. If we win eight games, you'll just insist that we would have won 12 with Cutler. No matter how this plays out, those who refused to see the reality of the Shanahan firing will be using this Cutler trade to try to justify their skewed position for years to come.

Honestly... if we win a Superbowl next year, the usual suspects will be around here saying that we "could have won it better" if Cutler was still here.

You stay pessimistic and sad, bro. Many of us are excited?? about the future of this team, and have a bit better understanding of how proper championship teams are built.
more like anxiously optimistic.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:44 AM   #14
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Jay Cutler screwed it up by not doing what he signed a piece of paper to do.

Yes, his tender ass could have been gently patted more effectively by the entire organization, but in the end... his childish behavior illuminated things to such an extent that this decision had to be made.

As for us being set back "years," you have no proof of that. If we win eight games, you'll just insist that we would have won 12 with Cutler. No matter how this plays out, those who refused to see the reality of the Shanahan firing will be using this Cutler trade to try to justify their skewed position for years to come.

Honestly... if we win a Superbowl next year, the usual suspects will be around here saying that we "could have won it better" if Cutler was still here.

You stay pessimistic and sad, bro. Many of us are excited about the future of this team, and have a bit better understanding of how proper championship teams are built.
yep. the cutler homers can't let it go. it's got to be some grand conspiracy by McD to get rid of cutler from day 1. hell, maybe it was McD on the grassy knoll too!
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:47 AM   #15
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the one who refused to talk to the coach or owner of the team is the one to blame. can you defend him not talking to the coach or owner, absolutely refusing to talk, requesting a trade then saying he didnt want to get traded? really?
thats all after the fact McD started this **** why can't you Mcnuggets get this
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:47 AM   #16
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'This loss will set the franchise back 10 years" - Shannon Sharpe after the broncos 30-27 loss to Jacksonville, Jan '96 (im paraphrasing)
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:49 AM   #17
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If Bowlen thought Cutler was on his way to being an Elway like player Jay would still be here and that is the end of the story.

Both Bowlen & McDaniels see cracks in the armor of Cutler and got value before everyone figures it out.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Jay Cutler screwed it up by not doing what he signed a piece of paper to do.

Yes, his tender ass could have been gently patted more effectively by the entire organization, but in the end... his childish behavior illuminated things to such an extent that this decision had to be made.

As for us being set back "years," you have no proof of that. If we win eight games, you'll just insist that we would have won 12 with Cutler. No matter how this plays out, those who refused to see the reality of the Shanahan firing will be using this Cutler trade to try to justify their skewed position for years to come.

Honestly... if we win a Superbowl next year, the usual suspects will be around here saying that we "could have won it better" if Cutler was still here.

You stay pessimistic and sad, bro. Many of us are excited about the future of this team, and have a bit better understanding of how proper championship teams are built.
Perfect. This is exactly what Ive been saying. We will be a better team this year I bet, and I am EXTREMELY excited to see "the other half" of the game we have missed out on the last decade *Harsh whispers* defense? YES DEFENSE!

Everyone will say that Cutler would be a superstar now when our defense is solid, but the fact is he ****s up, ALOT. Just look at the game killing INT vs KC where he has Sheffler WIDE OPEN FOR 6, Orton (or a cerebral QB) wouldn't have tried to force that thinking "NURRRR IM AMAZING NURR" and would have checked down to Sheff, and we win, make the playoffs, booyah.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:50 AM   #19
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Yes, I can. I don't think he really wanted to get traded. I think that he thought that the Broncos would want to smooth things over with a new contract. They called his bluff - he's gone. Good for them for being tough, except that they cut off their noses to spite the face of the organization in the process.

And I can absolutely defend him for not talking to the coach or the owner. At that point, he'd been lied to and misled by both of them. What are they going to say? Sorry? Money talks, BS walks.

37% blame on Bowlen.
37% blame on McDaniels.
25% blame on Jay.

I put a lot of stock in people being truthful and up front. I can't blame Jay too much for reacting when he felt like he was being lied to. I think he probably could and should have picked up the phone when the calls were coming in, but I can understand why he'd think "whatever, you're FOS - talk to my agent if you want to say something."

I wish the Broncos would have handled this in a manner that wouldn't have given Jay any room to believe that they were FOS. But that's water under the bridge.
I put 98 percent of the blame on Cutler.

After the initial trade discussion (which is common place in the NFL):

1) Cutler lost ZERO money
2) Cutler lost ZERO playing time
3) Cutler is still the focal point in the offense.
4) The only thing hurt was his pride. Boo ****ing hoo

Management tried numerous times to contact him to work it out. Cutler wouldn't do so without his agent. Cutler was contacted by the man who signs his paychecks, but refused to answer him. Coaches/GMs/Owners are authoritative figures. They are the ones calling the shots. Jay is the one getting paid millions to throw an oblong pigskin. He should have gotten over it quick. I still say this was a contract ploy that went horribly awry.

Sure, i suppose McD could have fellated him...but that said, 98 percent Cutler's fault.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:51 AM   #20
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yep. the cutler homers can't let it go. it's got to be some grand conspiracy by McD to get rid of cutler from day 1. hell, maybe it was McD on the grassy knoll too!
A conspiracy requires two people. A plan only requires one. Whether it was a plan or not is immaterial. What happened happened. McDaniels still flip flopped when the rumors went public. The Broncos still stopped taking the Cutler camp's calls when they were trying to get answers from them - and of course, like hypocrites, complained when Cutler treated them the same way by refusing to take their calls after the fact.

You're right - it is hard to let go. I feel like I've watched this team trade superbowl contention in the next two years for the hope of being in contention within five years.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:51 AM   #21
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thats all after the fact McD started this **** why can't you Mcnuggets get this
he started it by listening to trade offers that never amounted to anything. literally, thats what he did. OFFERS. he did not go out looking for trades, other teams thought they could pry away cutler and get mcdaniels cassel to make their teams better, i would hope someone would try to make that trade. he listened, never even talked to pat about it so the trades really didnt get serious at any point, cassel traded to chiefs and then cutler found out and cried his way back to TN
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:55 AM   #22
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Perfect. This is exactly what Ive been saying. We will be a better team this year I bet, and I am EXTREMELY excited to see "the other half" of the game we have missed out on the last decade *Harsh whispers* defense? YES DEFENSE!

Everyone will say that Cutler would be a superstar now when our defense is solid, but the fact is he ****s up, ALOT. Just look at the game killing INT vs KC where he has Sheffler WIDE OPEN FOR 6, Orton (or a cerebral QB) wouldn't have tried to force that thinking "NURRRR IM AMAZING NURR" and would have checked down to Sheff, and we win, make the playoffs, booyah.
And then there is that 'I too good to play safe" attitude that seems to resist coaching out of.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:55 AM   #23
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A conspiracy requires two people. A plan only requires one. Whether it was a plan or not is immaterial. What happened happened. McDaniels still flip flopped when the rumors went public. The Broncos still stopped taking the Cutler camp's calls when they were trying to get answers from them - and of course, like hypocrites, complained when Cutler treated them the same way by refusing to take their calls after the fact.

You're right - it is hard to let go. I feel like I've watched this team trade superbowl contention in the next two years for the hope of being in contention within five years.
haha....we were going to be in Super Bowl contention the next two years? That's laughable....seriously, we were going to be scraping for a wildcard berth as the defense rebuilt and Cutler was going to talk his way out of here before we ever got the chance to put together an entire TEAM..

The organization tried to make amends and Cutler told them to **** off....in essence telling the fans the same thing....so he has no sort of sympathy from me
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:56 AM   #24
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:00 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
A conspiracy requires two people. A plan only requires one. Whether it was a plan or not is immaterial. What happened happened. McDaniels still flip flopped when the rumors went public. The Broncos still stopped taking the Cutler camp's calls when they were trying to get answers from them - and of course, like hypocrites, complained when Cutler treated them the same way by refusing to take their calls after the fact.

You're right - it is hard to let go. I feel like I've watched this team trade superbowl contention in the next two years for the hope of being in contention within five years.
I don't get this flip flop talk, McDaniels has consistently stated he listened to offers and turned them down without even deeming there was enough interest to show them to Pat for his consideration.
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