The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2009, 02:54 PM   #1
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,440

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default Good, Bad and Ugly stats on Orton vs. Jay

I was starting to warm to Orton during an earlier thread that discussed Kyle being more efficient in the red zone than Cutler (96.0 rating to 74.1) but I'm concerned how the wheels start to fall off as the game progresses and especially when he gets behind by double digits. Hopefully, the answer for his struggles lie in poor coaching adjustments than his balls seeking shelter in his stomach during crunch time.

See for yourself.

Orton sit stats

http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton...s?id=ORT716150

Cutler sit stats

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaycutler...s?id=CUT288111
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-08-2009, 03:00 PM   #2
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,589

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
but I'm concerned how the wheels start to fall off as the game progresses and especially when he gets behind by double digits.
No QB shines in that scenario. Look at Cutler's numbers.

With one or two exceptions, he flat out sucked in 3rd quarters and any time they got down by 9 or more pts.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:01 PM   #3
rugbythug
Church Eyes.
 
rugbythug's Avatar
 
Salty Dog

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,079

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mr. Miller
Default

Good God. The stats are killing me.
rugbythug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:04 PM   #4
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,440

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

For those who are overwhelmed by the entire NFL.com pages:
Orton QB rating in 2008
1st Quarter: 116.1
2nd Quarter: 76.2
3rd Quarter: 66.5
4th Quarter: 65.7
4th Quarter within 7: 62.2

Behind by 9-16 Points: 54.4
Ahead by 9-16 Points: 105.1


Cutler QB rating 2008:
1st Quarter: 89.4
2nd Quarter: 85.5
3rd Quarter: 74.9
4th Quarter: 94.2
4th Quarter within 7: 91.7

Behind by 9-16 Points: 68.0
Ahead by 9-16 Points: 82.4

Last edited by RunSilentRunDeep; 04-08-2009 at 03:07 PM..
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:11 PM   #5
fdf
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,759
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
For those who are overwhelmed by the entire NFL.com pages:
Orton QB rating in 2008
1st Quarter: 116.1
2nd Quarter: 76.2
3rd Quarter: 66.5
4th Quarter: 65.7
4th Quarter within 7: 62.2

Behind by 9-16 Points: 54.4
Ahead by 9-16 Points: 105.1


Cutler QB rating 2008:
1st Quarter: 89.4
2nd Quarter: 85.5
3rd Quarter: 74.9
4th Quarter: 94.2
4th Quarter within 7: 91.7

Behind by 9-16 Points: 68.0
Ahead by 9-16 Points: 82.4
Good summary. Thank you. This says, I think, that when Chicago was down, the OL was not able to keep the other team from teeing off on Orton with the blitz. It also says he probably needs some work handling pressure.
fdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:14 PM   #6
Doggcow
Please Help Rebel
 
Doggcow's Avatar
 
http://www.gofundme.com/cvqzik

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,985

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Cutler was always pretty studly in the 4th, especially on game winning drives.
Doggcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:24 PM   #7
BroncoMan4ever
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoMan4ever's Avatar
 
That's just like your opinion, man

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,538

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VIRGIL GREEN!!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdf View Post
Good summary. Thank you. This says, I think, that when Chicago was down, the OL was not able to keep the other team from teeing off on Orton with the blitz. It also says he probably needs some work handling pressure.
get him a RB to take pressure off and the line will take care of him as long as he can slide a little in the pocket.

the OL was his main problem in Chicago. once he got behind defenses would rush him and tee off on him. our line can protect him, and with a potent running game he can have pressure taken off him.

as much as i hate to say it because i miss Jay and hate McDaniels, but if we can get a good RB we might be better on offense with Orton than we were last season.
less mistakes, we will see more of Orton throwing it away as opposed to forcing a pass, taking a sack instead of forcing a pass. and with a running game we might be balanced, and there is no possible way our defense can be worse than last year, so we might not have the record that shows it, but we will probably be a better team than last season
BroncoMan4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:33 PM   #8
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,349

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

69

37

42

79

50

27.56
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:33 PM   #9
BMarsh615
Ring of Famer
 
21ís No Champ

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,092

Adopt-a-Bronco:
# 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
and there is no possible way our defense can be worse than last year
I think everyone was saying that last year
BMarsh615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 03:45 PM   #10
CHANGSTER
You are a pizza burn...
 
CHANGSTER's Avatar
 
on the roof of the world's mouth

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SD
Posts: 1,537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMarsh615 View Post
I think everyone was saying that last year
Yeah, that seems to be said just about every year... and I believe it! Maybe were due...
CHANGSTER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 04:09 PM   #11
USMCBladerunner
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Two weeks from everywhere
Posts: 1,274

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Danny Trevathan
Default

Man...For the most part, I'm with the FO on this whole episode, as I think Jay really showed his ass, but the only way this team is better off is if they really hit with their draft picks...

On the field, I just don't see Orton outperforming Cutler within any system. This isn't to say that I think the Broncos are doomed, I don't think that at all, but I'm not looking for ways to feel that Orton will be better than Cutler. If the odds were even decent that he would, Denver wouldn't have gotten 2 firsts and a upgrade from 5th to 3rd with him.

If Denver is better it's because of an effort to improve the overall talent and performance of the team, but it will be in spite of a downgrade at QB and Josh McDaniels knows it.
USMCBladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 04:20 PM   #12
Mountain Bronco
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Mountains
Posts: 1,677
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggcow View Post
Cutler was always pretty studly in the 4th, especially on game winning drives.
You seem to forget his season killing interception. Specifically the one on the goal line against the bills. Studly my butt.

Last edited by Mountain Bronco; 04-08-2009 at 04:24 PM..
Mountain Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 04:30 PM   #13
Rock Chalk
Cheeky Bastards
 
Rock Chalk's Avatar
 
Laus Deo

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Backside of the Internet
Posts: 29,750

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Cutler = Steaming Pile of Red Zone Turnover Poo.

Orton = Not Cutler.

Advantage: Denver.
Rock Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 05:02 PM   #14
colonelbeef
Lets be friend
 
colonelbeef's Avatar
 
Elway is the new Jerry West

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,885

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Derek Wolfe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Chalk View Post
Cutler = Steaming Pile of Red Zone Turnover Poo.

Orton = Not Cutler.

Advantage: Denver.
Orton= not a good QB

advantage=Bears
colonelbeef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 05:03 PM   #15
BroncoMan4ever
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoMan4ever's Avatar
 
That's just like your opinion, man

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,538

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VIRGIL GREEN!!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHANGSTER View Post
Yeah, that seems to be said just about every year... and I believe it! Maybe were due...
good point. thanks for screwing up my day Debbie Downer....lol

although, with stability, good coaching, actual vocal leadership from Dawkins, dumping the trash players we had, we have already improved over last season.

also Nolan is a tough bastard, no way in hell is he going to allow anyone on the defensive side of the ball to be soft or let anyone take plays off.

i can't see how we can be worse, but the last few years have all proven that we can get worse on defense.
BroncoMan4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 05:21 PM   #16
lostknight
In The Arena
 
lostknight's Avatar
 
ohwaitwtf

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,336

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tim Tebow
Default

I will be interested to see what Orton can do with a better line.I went back and watched some youtube video on him, and dear God, he was running for his life on every bloody play.
lostknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 05:24 PM   #17
broncosteven
Kranz Dictum
 
broncosteven's Avatar
 
AFC WEST CHAMPS Tough and Competent

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tranquility Base
Posts: 38,264

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

Stats can be massaged to make whatever point you want.

I think Orton will be better with our receivers but he won't be able to make the throws Cutler can. Which isn't a bad thing because we have a new O and new routes.

I can't wait until we get to see these guys play.
broncosteven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 06:27 PM   #18
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,440

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

I'm not buying Orton's decline throughout the game because of poor protection. Was the Bears offensive line awesome is the first quarter when he posted a 116 rating?

He actually only got sacked twice in the 4th quarter all season (5 times in the first, 10 each in the 2nd and 3rd). So either his coaches got dumber as the game went on or Kyle starts to take a dump in his pants late in games.

If you're wondering, Forte averaged 4.2 per carry in the 4th so it wasn't the lack of a running game that was the problem.
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 06:50 PM   #19
Dedhed
Ring of Famer
 
Dedhed's Avatar
 
Fare thee well

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,443

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Q Smith
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
If Denver is better it's because of an effort to improve the overall talent and performance of the team, but it will be in spite of a downgrade at QB and Josh McDaniels knows it.
And he won't care one one iota, and neither will I.
Dedhed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 07:41 PM   #20
SportinOne
Ring of Famer
 
SportinOne's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,883
Default

NFL stats are the hardest to draw conclusions from of any sport.

I don't care if Cutler is favored or not, the stats are NOT going to predict future results. They are merely a record of what happened. That's it.

The best way to judge talent in the NFL is to use your eyes.
SportinOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 07:43 PM   #21
SportinOne
Ring of Famer
 
SportinOne's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedhed View Post
And he won't care one one iota, and neither will I.
If Vegas has us at an over/under of 6 i would put my life savings on the under.


Everyone here can save this to their archives if they'd like. We are just not going to be that good next year, barring a miracle draft of NFL ready players who surpass expectations. It's possible, but highly unlikely.

I'm not really worried about it. I didn't want Cutler to go but I feel as though we got solid value for him, if there is such a thing. Keep building, keep building that defense.
SportinOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 07:56 PM   #22
worm
Great moments are born...
 
worm's Avatar
 
...from great opportunity

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,902

Adopt-a-Bronco:
#20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChamp View Post
If Vegas has us at an over/under of 6 i would put my life savings on the under.


Everyone here can save this to their archives if they'd like. We are just not going to be that good next year, barring a miracle draft of NFL ready players who surpass expectations. It's possible, but highly unlikely.

I'm not really worried about it. I didn't want Cutler to go but I feel as though we got solid value for him, if there is such a thing. Keep building, keep building that defense.

I will take that bet.
worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 07:47 AM   #23
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,440

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChamp View Post
NFL stats are the hardest to draw conclusions from of any sport.

I don't care if Cutler is favored or not, the stats are NOT going to predict future results. They are merely a record of what happened. That's it.

The best way to judge talent in the NFL is to use your eyes.
Well, I'm guessing most people's eyes would say Orton sucks balls in the 4th quarter. There's got to be something to Orton having a QB rating 50 points lower in the 4th than in the 1st -- especially when he was sacked less in the 4th and the running game was strong.

Stats may not predict the future but they reveal trends. For instance, I wouldn't let Charles Manson babysit my kids based on his past statistics. Am I being silly?
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 07:55 AM   #24
RaiderH8r
In The Bag
 
RaiderH8r's Avatar
 
Bring back the tapenade!

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Meth Alley
Posts: 10,806

Adopt-a-Bronco:
MethWolfe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Well, I'm guessing most people's eyes would say Orton sucks balls in the 4th quarter. There's got to be something to Orton having a QB rating 50 points lower in the 4th than in the 1st -- especially when he was sacked less in the 4th and the running game was strong.

Stats may not predict the future but they reveal trends. For instance, I wouldn't let Charles Manson babysit my kids based on his past statistics. Am I being silly?
Charles Manson=Kyle Orton

Advantage: Chicago
RaiderH8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 08:03 AM   #25
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 21,600
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
For those who are overwhelmed by the entire NFL.com pages:
Orton QB rating in 2008
1st Quarter: 116.1
2nd Quarter: 76.2
3rd Quarter: 66.5
4th Quarter: 65.7
4th Quarter within 7: 62.2

Behind by 9-16 Points: 54.4
Ahead by 9-16 Points: 105.1


Cutler QB rating 2008:
1st Quarter: 89.4
2nd Quarter: 85.5
3rd Quarter: 74.9
4th Quarter: 94.2
4th Quarter within 7: 91.7

Behind by 9-16 Points: 68.0
Ahead by 9-16 Points: 82.4
all this says is what we already knew, that Cutler is far better and Mcdipshyt screwed up
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:43 PM.


Denver Broncos