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Old 04-07-2009, 10:45 AM   #1
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I think I understand at least one reason (among many) why people are upset to see Shanahan go and so angry about McDaniels. I think part of it is that the team will not look like the Broncos we've come to know. Shanahan's system, for all its recent failures, still brought the team it's first championships and have become fixtures of what Denver is for a long time. It's incredibly familiar, and not it's gone.

This means the good and bad things that came with the old regime will be gone as well. We'll probably lose the dominating rushing attack, the trickery and mis-direction, and the ability to beat the Patriots at will. I also think the look and feel of the team will be completely different. Obviously losing Cutler only exacerbates that change. Think about all the things that are going to be different.
  1. There will be much less zone scheme. The sliding offensive line that we're so used to will be gone.
  2. The roll-out will probably be completely removed. Sprint right option is almost an NFL icon play. Probably won't see too much of that.
  3. A 3-4 defense that puts a premium on size. Gone will be the "speedy" linebackers in replacement of guys who large and play physically. We last saw this under Reeves.

That's just a few things off the top of my head. I predict that some fans will realize they weren't in love with the Broncos, but they were in love with Mike Shanahan's Broncos. His style, team and organization are all gone. That will estrange some fans.

This year will be tough. Parcells and his deciples' teams rarely look good their first year as they flesh out the bad. In fact a lot of teams have to go through that when they overhaul the system. The Cutler fiasco will exacerbate things. I think that will be hard for a lot of people. I think the team not looking the same as before will be harder for people. I expect a lot of "we're a crappy version of the Patriots" comments.

Really though, it hasn't been the Shanahan Broncos since Kubiak left. You watch a Texans game today and it's totally our system. When Kubiak left and Shanahan foolishly fired Larry Coyer we sank into mediocrity. For all the good we had, the recent history wasn't good: Worst home loss in almost fifty years. A sub .500 home record. We used to dominate at home! After the first few games, we had 17 two minute drives and ultimately produced a field goal. We had thirty offensive turnovers which is second worse in the league. For all our yardage, we finished 16th in scoring. We were worst in the league in starting field position. Our field goal kicker was missing extra points. How long have our special teams been terrible? The idea that we only needed to fix the defense is bogus.

This year will not be pretty. It's going to be hard, but I think this team will be better as the season goes on. If we can find some good talent in the draft, I think the team will show more resolve than we've seen in three years at least. I don't think you'll see us get lit up at home like we've been, or embarrassed nationally. I think the team will have a lot of character.

Be prepared for things to look foreign. It will be weird, maybe even awkward and be an adjustment. But I think it will be a necessary move in the right direction. In time we can fall in love with the Broncos all over again.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:53 AM   #2
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Nice, another "Im a real fan and youre not" thread.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:55 AM   #3
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Who are these Broncos?

They are the NE Patriots, version 2.0
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I think I understand at least one reason (among many) why people are upset to see Shanahan go and so angry about McDaniels. I think part of it is that the team will not look like the Broncos we've come to know. Shanahan's system, for all its recent failures, still brought the team it's first championships and have become fixtures of what Denver is for a long time. It's incredibly familiar, and not it's gone.

This means the good and bad things that came with the old regime will be gone as well. We'll probably lose the dominating rushing attack, the trickery and mis-direction, and the ability to beat the Patriots at will. I also think the look and feel of the team will be completely different. Obviously losing Cutler only exacerbates that change. Think about all the things that are going to be different.
  1. There will be much less zone scheme. The sliding offensive line that we're so used to will be gone.
  2. The roll-out will probably be completely removed. Sprint right option is almost an NFL icon play. Probably won't see too much of that.
  3. A 3-4 defense that puts a premium on size. Gone will be the "speedy" linebackers in replacement of guys who large and play physically. We last saw this under Reeves.

That's just a few things off the top of my head. I predict that some fans will realize they weren't in love with the Broncos, but they were in love with Mike Shanahan's Broncos. His style, team and organization are all gone. That will estrange some fans.

This year will be tough. Parcells and his deciples' teams rarely look good their first year as they flesh out the bad. In fact a lot of teams have to go through that when they overhaul the system. The Cutler fiasco will exacerbate things. I think that will be hard for a lot of people. I think the team not looking the same as before will be harder for people. I expect a lot of "we're a crappy version of the Patriots" comments.

Really though, it hasn't been the Shanahan Broncos since Kubiak left. You watch a Texans game today and it's totally our system. When Kubiak left and Shanahan foolishly fired Larry Coyer we sank into mediocrity. For all the good we had, the recent history wasn't good: Worst home loss in almost fifty years. A sub .500 home record. We used to dominate at home! After the first few games, we had 17 two minute drives and ultimately produced a field goal. We had thirty offensive turnovers which is second worse in the league. For all our yardage, we finished 16th in scoring. We were worst in the league in starting field position. Our field goal kicker was missing extra points. How long have our special teams been terrible? The idea that we only needed to fix the defense is bogus.

This year will not be pretty. It's going to be hard, but I think this team will be better as the season goes on. If we can find some good talent in the draft, I think the team will show more resolve than we've seen in three years at least. I don't think you'll see us get lit up at home like we've been, or embarrassed nationally. I think the team will have a lot of character.

Be prepared for things to look foreign. It will be weird, maybe even awkward and be an adjustment. But I think it will be a necessary move in the right direction. In time we can fall in love with the Broncos all over again.
Good Post K! A lot of people fall into the categories you mentioned...Shanahans system fans, vs Just Bronco fans .

Shanahan brought one thing....consistancy..... and people aren't comfortable with CHANGE. It can be scary. And Yes, this year is going to be tough....maybe even a few years of that.....But so were the last 2 years. Or the last 10 if you want to go back that far.

It was not enjoyable watching a 3 game lead evaporate in the last 3 games of the year. Or the blow out losses that were becoming more and more common.

So change, scary as it is, might just be a good thing, since without it, the
type of Bronco football we were recieving was becoming less and less tasty.

As they say, you have to break some eggs to make mayonaise.

I'm looking forward to a NEW Bronco team that doesn't fit the mold of the old one. It definitely will be interesting to not KNOW what the coach is thinking .
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:59 AM   #5
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Good take.

Offensively I think we will move to being largely a single-back formation team. With Shanahan in charge we used to be one of the few teams who would run fullbacks on almost all non-shotgun plays, with the exception of when our tailback got depleted with injuries. I think we will see a lot of playing one TE as effectively a 6th offensive lineman who will be responsible for picking up blitzes coming wide as well as defensive ends and outside linebackers trying to go wide on our tackle. This will free up the RB to be more of an outlet receiver and less of an emergency blocker.
We will certianly see more 3 WR sets than we are used to and more shotgun formations than we are used to. I also believe that if Orton/Simms can master it we will see quite a bit of no-huddle formations, simply because we can create some mismatches with some of the personnel we have like Hillis, Marshall and Scheffler and I think we will see some attempts at keeping defenses in mismatches once we achieve that.
Our rush offense I believe will be a mix of the one-cut running we used under Shanahan where the runningback is responsible for finding the hole and a more gap oriented blocking scheme where the run is designed to go to a specific gap that should be opened up by the blocking. The stretch play will still feature, actually a lot of teams use it to some degree as it is very effective when you have an offensive lineman who bounce to the outside and seal off the linebacker.

I agree that the bootleg rollout will be gone, obviously we don't have a QB anymore who would excel at running the rollout and also because Mcdaniels wants the tackles to keep the pocket in tact instead of worrying about the QB taking off.

On defense size is definitely going to be in. I expect we will feature a defensive line with at least 3 guys who are above 300 lbs. I also expect at least 2 LBs who are above 255 lbs. The key is versatility and ingelligence, I think we will see a lot of our linebackers being asked to do a lot of things and have a lot of responsibility. I expect we will be somewhat vanilla when it comes to what we do with the secondary, I expect some quite basic zone schemes and some man coverage with 2 safeties deep.

On defense I would expect it to take some time to become profitient, I honestly don't expect to us to improve overall on defense a lot this year, which is why I also don't see us winning a whole lot of games. Unless someone steps up the only DL we have that should play regularly is Marcus Thomas and that is not enough.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:59 AM   #6
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Very good points Kaylore. As I've said many times on this board, many posters are simply scared of this massive change. Even though Shanny's system produced one playoff win without Elway, many posters would rather sit comfortably mediocre, than try something new. This is human nature.

People need to understand there is more than one way to win in the NFL. If you don't "get it" I feel sorry for you.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:00 AM   #7
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I think for fans who have been rooting for the team since the 70s it will be a lot easier. We've already seen this team go through pretty drastic changes before and usually it turned out okay. When I first started rooting for the Broncos we had Morton (Orton? Anybody notice this?) and a dominating defense. Truth be told, I've always wanted to go back to that. Maybe that's why I don't feel so bad about these changes, but instead, more excited. Shanahan's failure to put on D on the field was really starting to grate on my nerves. I'm optimistic. I'm rooting for the return of the Orange Crush. Gimme that and I don't care which Morton/Orton hears a who at QB.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:00 AM   #8
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Nice, another "Im a real fan and youre not" thread.
You could always start an "I'm an a-hole and you're not" thread, Turdman.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:00 AM   #9
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I think next year we will start out weak, but finish strong down the stretch...

I would much rather have that, than start strong and finish weak (sound familiar?)

All in all, The Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...

NECKBEARD might be just the what the doctor ordered... decision making and accuracy...
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:02 AM   #10
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Perhaps these Broncos can manage to field a decent defense. Perhaps these Broncos can manage to not to fade in the second half of every game, and the second half of every season. Perhaps these Broncos can manage to be prepared for every game. Perhaps these Broncos can manage to play special teams. Perhaps these Broncos can manage to have consistent drafts. Perhaps these Broncos can manage to go better than .500 over the next three years. Perhaps these Broncos can manage win more than one playoff game in the next decade.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:03 AM   #11
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Neckbeard is average. He will play like an average QB. He does not possess franchise QB natural talent. He will only be as soon as the line (which thankfully should be solid), the RB (which I am worried about), our TE (oops looks like we might dump him too), and so on.

Saying he is accurate is saying Griese was accurate. Which was very true.. for all those 3 to 5 yard passes. Look where that got us.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:04 AM   #12
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Great post.

I have been one who has been screaming for a tougher D. I miss the hardnose players (K Meck, Atwater, D Smith) of my youth. I will miss Shanahan, but I understand that he needed to go.

I am an optimist. I think that we will be better than most people think. I think this might even just be a sidestep year (7-9, 8-8 or 9-7), mainly because the schedule and the defense.

Now I think we can pull a Dolphins year out, if we are lucky......really lucky. I watched them win, because the wife is a dolphin fan, and it was no accident. They didn't turn the ball over and they created turnovers. If we can do that, we can win 2 or 3 more games next season.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:05 AM   #13
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Great post.

I have been one who has been screaming for a tougher D. I miss the hardnose players (K Meck, Atwater, D Smith) of my youth. I will miss Shanahan, but I understand that he needed to go.

I am an optimist. I think that we will be better than most people think. I think this might even just be a sidestep year (7-9, 8-8 or 9-7), mainly because the schedule and the defense.

Now I think we can pull a Dolphins year out, if we are lucky......really lucky. I watched them win, because the wife is a dolphin fan, and it was no accident. They didn't turn the ball over and they created turnovers. If we can do that, we can win 2 or 3 more games next season.
But wait until they see their schedule this year compared to last. Ouch.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
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I think for fans who have been rooting for the team since the 70s it will be a lot easier. We've already seen this team go through pretty drastic changes before and usually it turned out okay. When I first started rooting for the Broncos we had Morton (Orton? Anybody notice this?) and a dominating defense. Truth be told, I've always wanted to go back to that. Maybe that's why I don't feel so bad about these changes, but instead, more excited. Shanahan's failure to put on D on the field was really starting to grate on my nerves. I'm optimistic. I'm rooting for the return of the Orange Crush. Gimme that and I don't care which Morton/Orton hears a who at QB.
I wonder if Kyle's middle name is something like "Michael" or "Malcolm" or "Mackenzie"...

Then he would be Kyle M. ORTON...
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:15 AM   #15
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I wonder if Kyle's middle name is something like "Michael" or "Malcolm" or "Mackenzie"...

Then he would be Kyle M. ORTON...
Wouldn't it be weird if Orton was the QB, we put together a really good 3-4 D, make it back to the SB, and face the Cowboys?
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #16
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The vast majority of fans root for laundry. I do. I've cheered for the Broncos since Red Miller. I don't fans our going to be bother because a 5-yard run came with a pulling guard instead of a ZBS. The league is evolving and Shanny's schemes were no longer ahead of the curve.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:18 AM   #17
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Wouldn't it be weird if Orton was the QB, we put together a really good 3-4 D, make it back to the SB, and face the Cowboys?
Yeah, but we kicked their arses this time...

Now thats more like a NFL "Storybook ending" that I can believe in...
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:18 AM   #18
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Thoughtful stuff. I can't believe some resident turds could take this thread as inflammatory.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:21 AM   #19
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Yeah, but we kicked their arses this time...

Now thats more like a NFL "Storybook ending" that I can believe in...
I can still feel the hurt from that one. That was a shocker at the time. It would sure be nice to avenge that one.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:21 AM   #20
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That's just a few things off the top of my head. I predict that some fans will realize they weren't in love with the Broncos, but they were in love with Mike Shanahan's Broncos. His style, team and organization are all gone. That will estrange some fans.
I was a Bronco fan before the Shanahan era began, and will be after the McDaniels era is over. I just don't agree with the current regimes decisions...as well as Pat Bowlen's. I really hope we draft two defensive studs in the first round and not some overrated bust named Sanchez. It wouldn't surprise me if they do the latter, it would be par for the course actually.

Keep in mind I was all for McDaniels coming here. One of seven people on this board to vote for McDaniels to be the new coach in a poll while everyone else was off to suck "spags" ****. I think McDaniels will bring a good attitude but hope his decision making skills are better on the field than off it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:30 AM   #21
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Nice, another "Im a real fan and youre not" thread.
You have miss-spelled your user name it should be Les

You remind me of this guy;



Last edited by baja; 04-07-2009 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:30 AM   #22
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Neckbeard is average. He will play like an average QB. He does not possess franchise QB natural talent. He will only be as soon as the line (which thankfully should be solid), the RB (which I am worried about), our TE (oops looks like we might dump him too), and so on.

Saying he is accurate is saying Griese was accurate. Which was very true.. for all those 3 to 5 yard passes. Look where that got us.
While Orton is not cutler, he doesnt need a huge arm to run the McD offense (though his arm is stronger than you think). My guess is you havent seen Orton play much. Enough with this "franchise QB natural talent." Tom Brady probably doesnt have that either...otherwise he woulda been drafted in the first
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:37 AM   #23
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Who are these Broncos?

They are the NE Patriots, version 2.0
if that means, superbowl appearances and wins, younger studs and proven veterans and a stellar defense, then sign me up! What good is a fun and exciting offense if after 3 hours we watched our team lose and be bummed out until the next game in 7 days. This board can have the "Yes we lost but how about Royal and Marshall's game", but it gets old. A new look Broncos can mean an actual return to the glory days. Dont fret. This is exciting times with many of our stars still on offense.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
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I think for fans who have been rooting for the team since the 70s it will be a lot easier. We've already seen this team go through pretty drastic changes before and usually it turned out okay. When I first started rooting for the Broncos we had Morton (Orton? Anybody notice this?) and a dominating defense. Truth be told, I've always wanted to go back to that. Maybe that's why I don't feel so bad about these changes, but instead, more excited. Shanahan's failure to put on D on the field was really starting to grate on my nerves. I'm optimistic. I'm rooting for the return of the Orange Crush. Gimme that and I don't care which Morton/Orton hears a who at QB.
I guess that's why I'm not upset with Shanahan getting fired too.
Anyone remember the days when the Raiders used to come to town and the team was scared to death? Then, Oakland would promptly wax our ass.

So, if we are down for a little while, it not a big deal if you were around or followed the team since the early 70's.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:43 AM   #25
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I guess that's why I'm not upset with Shanahan getting fired too.
Anyone remember the days when the Raiders used to come to town and the team was scared to death? Then, Oakland would promptly wax our ass.

So, if we are down for a little while, it not a big deal if you were around or followed the team since the early 70's.
They even did that in the 90;s...remember Hoss and his group of track star receivers? They'd murder us
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