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Old 04-03-2009, 11:49 PM   #1
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Default In the Year 2020 ... a new episode on ESPN:

"The Top 5 Reasons you can't blame the Broncos for trading Jay Cutler."
  1. The Broncos were overloaded with offensive talent, and they had to strengthen their defense ... a defense that finished 29th or worse two years running.
  2. Remember the Broncos' 32-year old first-year head coach Josh McDaniels? He brought Denver the thrill of the Patriots dynasty, but like all the other NE coordinators - Crennel, Mangini, Weis, - he never delivered outside Bill Belichick's halo, and was fired in 2011.
  3. Jay Cutler said he had a stronger arm than Elway, a hero in Denver, plus he drank a lot, had diabetes, and argued with Phillip Rivers. And let's face it ... that was one BAD haircut.
  4. Jay Cutler was too closely tied to Mike Shanahan, and after Shanahan was let go after 13 years, owner Pat Bowlen felt sweeping changes had to be made.
A bunch of excuses why we let him go and the world laughed at us .....

I hope TJ is archiving all this stuff, because Cutler is gonna make us all regret it. You know, the way we all laugh at the Colts and Browns about Elway? That's gonna be the Bears one day.

LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: We gave up two 1st rounders for Cutler ... and AFTER he proved himself a Pro-Bowler, THEN we traded him for two LATER first-riounders and a servicable starter/backup. That's a bad, bad deal, any way you cut it.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:52 PM   #2
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[B][SIZE=3]
I hope TJ is archiving all this stuff, because Cutler is gonna make us all regret it. You know, the way we all laugh at the Colts and Browns about Elway? That's gonna be the Bears one day. .
Go join the other queers around here flocking to root for the Bears, dude.

What an embarrassing thread to read.
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Old 04-03-2009, 11:55 PM   #3
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I smell Trufan.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:05 AM   #4
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I smell Trufan.
Yea, you've said that a few times and it really isn't getting any funnier.

I mean, try again though. You never know.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:06 AM   #5
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Go join the other queers around here flocking to root for the Bears, dude.

What an embarrassing thread to read.
I just think it's a bad trade ... one we will regret.

And I am quite serious about this. I am actually PREDICTING THIS WILL HAPPEN. That's why I want it archived. IMHO, Jay has franchise superstar written all over him ... in two years, he re-wrote tons of records for this 50-year-old franchise, and he's gonna knock down alotta Sid Luckman records starting six months from now, just watch.

And the odds are - just plain statistics you can't argue with - the odds are Josh will fail. That's the likelihood for ANY first-time head coach, even those who have lots of experience.


Jay was a bird in the hand ... a beautiful, proven bird of prey in the hand.

And we traded him for two in the bush.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:06 AM   #6
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you only did 4, so I'll add a 5th.

5. Bowlen was on a 100 day drinking binge and you can't blame owners when they are in that state of mind.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:16 AM   #7
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I just think it's a bad trade ... one we will regret.

And I am quite serious about this. I am actually PREDICTING THIS WILL HAPPEN. That's why I want it archived. IMHO, Jay has franchise superstar written all over him ... in two years, he re-wrote tons of records for this 50-year-old franchise, and he's gonna knock down alotta Sid Luckman records starting six months from now, just watch.

And the odds are - just plain statistics you can't argue with - the odds are Josh will fail. That's the likelihood for ANY first-time head coach, even those who have lots of experience.


Jay was a bird in the hand ... a beautiful, proven bird of prey in the hand.

And we traded him for two in the bush.

He wasn't a bird in the hand. He was a mopey b**** who threw 7 more TDs than INTs last year. He refused to play for the Broncos, Buff. You're omitting a lot of important details in your fantasy.

Some people are just blinded by talent and refuse to look at anything else in the scenario. There are so many pieces to this puzzle, and you're only factoring in a tiny fraction... and hence coming to the wrong conclusion.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:20 AM   #8
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Yea, you've said that a few times and it really isn't getting any funnier.

I mean, try again though. You never know.
Isn't that what you are saying? I reads to me that you are saying BB is not a real or true fan, thus making yourself a better or "true" fan.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:24 AM   #9
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"The Top 5 Reasons you can't blame the Broncos for trading Jay Cutler."
  1. The Broncos were overloaded with offensive talent, and they had to strengthen their defense ... a defense that finished 29th or worse two years running.
  2. Remember the Broncos' 32-year old first-year head coach Josh McDaniels? He brought Denver the thrill of the Patriots dynasty, but like all the other NE coordinators - Crennel, Mangini, Weis, - he never delivered outside Bill Belichick's halo, and was fired in 2011.
  3. Jay Cutler said he had a stronger arm than Elway, a hero in Denver, plus he drank a lot, had diabetes, and argued with Phillip Rivers. And let's face it ... that was one BAD haircut.
  4. Jay Cutler was too closely tied to Mike Shanahan, and after Shanahan was let go after 13 years, owner Pat Bowlen felt sweeping changes had to be made.
A bunch of excuses why we let him go and the world laughed at us .....

I hope TJ is archiving all this stuff, because Cutler is gonna make us all regret it. You know, the way we all laugh at the Colts and Browns about Elway? That's gonna be the Bears one day.

LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: We gave up two 1st rounders for Cutler ... and AFTER he proved himself a Pro-Bowler, THEN we traded him for two LATER first-riounders and a servicable starter/backup. That's a bad, bad deal, any way you cut it.

Best of the Rest:

* Bowlen was a drunk

* He was dumb
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:27 AM   #10
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[B][SIZE=3][*]Remember the Broncos' 32-year old first-year head coach Josh McDaniels? He brought Denver the thrill of the Patriots dynasty, but like all the other NE coordinators - Crennel, Mangini, Weis, - he never delivered outside Bill Belichick's halo, and was fired in 2011.
...and in 2011 Bowlen sells the team and checks into the Betty Ford Clinic.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:32 AM   #11
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Isn't that what you are saying? I reads to me that you are saying BB is not a real or true fan, thus making yourself a better or "true" fan.
That's what I'm hearing ... but that's not like him. Popps and I have been jousting on this topic for weeks now, but I would never challenge his fan-cred. He's forgetting that we agree about 90% of the time, in fact we team up on other guys fairly regularly, often about our shared obssession with pass rush.

I hope - REALLY hope - that Josh succeeds. But he is a newcomer to MY team, and he is a kid with little experience, and a checkered experience, 1) he was dropped into a dynasty, 2) he was the OC for an offense that was helped by stealing signals (if you think they didn't steal signals, then Bill wants his half-million back). Josh is the 2nd or 3rd youngest head coach IN NFL HISTORY. I have EVERY RIGHT to be skeptical when a new guy - such a young guy - alienates and then trades the star quarterback.

People who question other's fan cred because they disagree with teammanagement are EXACTLY LIKE Bush Republicans who claim dissent is un-American. "You're either with us or against us" ... that doesn't work in sports.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:44 AM   #12
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I'm getting sick of this argument that Jay Cutler was the pillar that was keeping the entire Broncos franchise from crumbling. I'm upset this went down too but for Christ's sake is a little perspective that difficult to come by?

Cutler came to a playoff team and the team hasn't been to the playoffs since he got here. Is it all his fault? Of course not, but he had opportunities to win games that would have gotten the team in the playoffs... the kind of situations that determine if a QB is a winner or not... and he didn't do it... so you can't completely absolve him contrary to the standard argument in Bronco Country.

So please explain then this sentiment that Cutler is taking the pride and glory of the entire Denver Broncos franchise with him when there was NONE OF IT here while he was around? ZIPPO. NADA. You have Bronco fans screaming from the rooftops "We will mirred in mediocrity for a generation because of this trade I tell ya!" when we had a mediocre team BEFORE the trade. Where was this friggin' glory we're so worried about having lost? Was Cutler saving it all for a rainy day?

Give me a break. Cutler was talented, no doubt, but he simply wasn't all that, and if Chicago doesn't get some talent around him he's going to struggle there. He had UNBELIEVABLE talent around him last season and the Broncos were still a mediocre scoring team. A lot of that is on him. I badly wanted to see him grow with this great nucleus but guess what? Cutler didn't want it. He probably thinks he was carrying the offense. He probably thinks he's the reason Clady and Harris are the best young left tackle duo in the game. He probably thinks he's the reason Marshall and Royal are arguably the best young receiving duo in the game. He thinks he can go anywhere and these types of players will sprout up all around him because of his arm is hands down the greatest thing God ever created. And apparently so do a lot of Bronco fans.

Give me a break. If you're going to get all torches and pitchforks about something at least wait for a worthy reason to do it. A petulant whiny ass QB with an arm so golden neither he nor his fans thinks he actually has to accomplish anything football wise is not such a worthy reason. Get over it. Turn the friggin' page.

Will the Broncos be fine? I have no idea. It all depends on what they do from here on out. And guess what? That's EXACTLY how it was WITH Cutler! Was Cutler's arm going to fix the defense? Was Cutler's arm going to fix special teams? Was Cutler's arm going to keep the Broncos from being the San Diego Chargers b****? It wasn't, and it wouldn't.

Perspective folks. Get some.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:47 AM   #13
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That's what I'm hearing ... but that's not like him. Popps and I have been jousting on this topic for weeks now, but I would never challenge his fan-cred. He's forgetting that we agree about 90% of the time, in fact we team up on other guys fairly regularly, often about our shared obssession with pass rush.

I hope - REALLY hope - that Josh succeeds. But he is a newcomer to MY team, and he is a kid with little experience, and a checkered experience, 1) he was dropped into a dynasty, 2) he was the OC for an offense that was helped by stealing signals (if you think they didn't steal signals, then Bill wants his half-million back). Josh is the 2nd or 3rd youngest head coach IN NFL HISTORY. I have EVERY RIGHT to be skeptical when a new guy - such a young guy - alienates and then trades the star quarterback.

People who question other's fan cred because they disagree with teammanagement are EXACTLY LIKE Bush Republicans who claim dissent is un-American. "You're either with us or against us" ... that doesn't work in sports.
Don't worry, Captain Popps of the fandom Brigade has attacked half the board on being sh***y fans....and that includes Taco.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:48 AM   #14
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I agree with alotta what you're saying, X ... but I do think we'll regret this trade forever.


And by the way, why is everybody saying "Chicago needs a lot more talent"? They're drafting 6 spots below us!
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:52 AM   #15
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:00 AM   #16
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Yea, you've said that a few times and it really isn't getting any funnier.

I mean, try again though. You never know.
You've tossed out the go join the Bears crap in just about every thread as well.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:01 AM   #17
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I agree with alotta what you're saying, X ... but I do think we'll regret this trade forever.


And by the way, why is everybody saying "Chicago needs a lot more talent"? They're drafting 6 spots below us!
They're not drafting 6 spots below anymore for what it's worth. They were a better team because had a better defense. But on offense the Broncos have hands down better talent. Chicago's O line and receiving corps is a mess. Cutler will experience life like he did in the 07 season except without a go to receiver like Marshall. People keep talking about Earl Bennett being in Chicago like Cutler can make him all world because they played together in Vandy, but he's got to be able to run routes against NFL talent just like any other NFL receiver. He better not zero in on him like he did Marshall or he'll throw twice as many picks as he did in Denver.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:01 AM   #18
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He wasn't a bird in the hand. He was a mopey b**** who threw 7 more TDs than INTs last year. He refused to play for the Broncos, Buff. You're omitting a lot of important details in your fantasy.

Some people are just blinded by talent and refuse to look at anything else in the scenario. There are so many pieces to this puzzle, and you're only factoring in a tiny fraction... and hence coming to the wrong conclusion.
He didn't want to play for McD.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:19 AM   #19
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I'll also say this... I'm not going to deny the possibility that the Broncos will regret this trade. It's hard to come by QBs with Cutler's set of skills, and we likely won't see one again in Denver for a long time. But I still can't get on board with all the commiserating. Cutler was still all potential and very little proven. He had some dazzling games and he went to a Pro Bowl he didn't deserve, to be frank. I still believe in his potential and hoped it'd play out here but it was incredibly frustrating that he and so many others believe he's proven more than he has. From his perspective, if he already thinks so highly of himself then where's he going to get the deisre to improve? I honestly don't know that he would have it if he'd stayed here.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:21 AM   #20
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LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: We gave up two 1st rounders for Cutler ... and AFTER he proved himself a Pro-Bowler, THEN we traded him for two LATER first-riounders and a servicable starter/backup. That's a bad, bad deal, any way you cut it.
I'm wrong here I think ... anybody know exactly what we gave up for Cutler? We got #22 in the Lelie/TJ Duckett trade or something? And we had the 15 ... but how much did we LITERALLY spend for Jay? Our own #15, plus what'd we give the Rams?

We basically know what we got in return: Two mid-round 1st round picks, a 3rd round pick, and a proven mid-level starting QB.

And when comparing remember: Cutler has a LOT more value now than on Draft Day 2006, because he's proven himself a franchise QB. Unlike Jamarcus, Alex Smith, VY, Leinart, all guys drafted above Jay. So we should've got MORE than we gave up on Draft Day '06 .... a lot more.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:22 AM   #21
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I can't get on board with all the commiserating.
Good point. I'll be on board by draft day.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:29 AM   #22
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I'll also say this... I'm not going to deny the possibility that the Broncos will regret this trade. It's hard to come by QBs with Cutler's set of skills, and we likely won't see one again in Denver for a long time. But I still can't get on board with all the commiserating. Cutler was still all potential and very little proven. He had some dazzling games and he went to a Pro Bowl he didn't deserve, to be frank. I still believe in his potential and hoped it'd play out here but it was incredibly frustrating that he and so many others believe he's proven more than he has. From his perspective, if he already thinks so highly of himself then where's he going to get the deisre to improve? I honestly don't know that he would have it if he'd stayed here.
I think we have to give the trade a fair chance. This either makes or breaks us for the next 5 years. Even if Cutler goes on to have the career I believe he will, if we can hit on atleast three of the four first rounders with the young core we have now on O we will be ok. I don't think Orton is the answer at QB for long term but I can see him playing well for a year.

My problem is while I don't want Denver to lose I can't help but think that we have a huge up hill battle for this up coming season because of our D. If we do happen to struggle next year I do know there are some good QBs in the 10 draft which is nice.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:31 AM   #23
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He didn't want to play for McD.
No, he didn't want to play for the Broncos.

He refused to even speak to the coach in person.

McDaniels is our coach. He's our leader, like it or not.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:31 AM   #24
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What, not going to threaten to kill me or neg-rep me 400 times tonight?

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Old 04-04-2009, 01:34 AM   #25
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I'll also say this... I'm not going to deny the possibility that the Broncos will regret this trade. It's hard to come by QBs with Cutler's set of skills, and we likely won't see one again in Denver for a long time. But I still can't get on board with all the commiserating. Cutler was still all potential and very little proven. He had some dazzling games and he went to a Pro Bowl he didn't deserve, to be frank. I still believe in his potential and hoped it'd play out here but it was incredibly frustrating that he and so many others believe he's proven more than he has. From his perspective, if he already thinks so highly of himself then where's he going to get the deisre to improve? I honestly don't know that he would have it if he'd stayed here.
Very rational post.

We may INDEED regret it. He may INDEED be a Hall of Fame QB. He's got the physical talent.

But, sometimes things aren't meant to be. Jay didn't want to be here. Personally, I think this is like losing a crazy girlfriend. You might be bummed about it at first, but a bit later on... you're thanking your lucky stars you're rid of her.

I think if Jay was a quality leader, this would have worked out... period.
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