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Old 04-03-2009, 06:42 PM   #1
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Long time Pats fan here. The Broncs killed the Bears in that trade. Two 1st's and a 3rd, plus a serviceable young QB with a good attitude. Four 1st round picks in the next 2 drafts. That is a bounty.

I can't recall a trade in many years as rich as that one. You dump a malcontent and get set up for the next 10 years. I don't think anyone expected Denver to win it all next year anyway, and now you're in position to be competitive for years.

Let me also say that you're gonna love Josh McDaniels. He's got a few things to learn about being a HC obviously, but you've got one of the bright minds in football, a great competitor and leader, yet the furthest thing from a blowhard. I hated to see him leave NE.
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:46 PM   #2
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Im anxious to see how Orton does honestly....lol

He actually did well last year.

But yea we need to hit on these picks.

We could take a big step towards repairing our defense
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:47 PM   #3
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Everyone sense that? The clouds are parting, and the sun is starting to shine through again.
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:51 PM   #4
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People treat draft picks like it's a video game where if you collect enough of them you can power up to beat the end boss. The vast majority of draft picks don't end up as long term starters for the team that drafted them. I'd much rather gotten proven players, but it is what it is. We'll find out in 5 years.
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:55 PM   #5
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Let me also say that you're gonna love Josh McDaniels. He's got a few things to learn about being a HC obviously, but you've got one of the bright minds in football, a great competitor and leader, yet the furthest thing from a blowhard. I hated to see him leave NE.
Thats the general sentiment I've gotten from the many Pats fans I know (many of whom are family). Most didn't really care about losing Weiss, Crennel, or Mangini but really don't like losing McDaniels.

A lot of them are also rather unhappy to see the Broncos steal Lonnie Paxton.
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:55 PM   #6
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Cutler was once "just a draft pick" before he became the living legend that he is today. All "proven players" were once just draft picks and potential. And as our recent history has shown, at some point, a team needs to be able to develop its own talent base.

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People treat draft picks like it's a video game where if you collect enough of them you can power up to beat the end boss. The vast majority of draft picks don't end up as long term starters for the team that drafted them. I'd much rather gotten proven players, but it is what it is. We'll find out in 5 years.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:00 PM   #7
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Cutler was once "just a draft pick" before he became the living legend that he is today. All "proven players" were once just draft picks and potential. And as our recent history has shown, at some point, a team needs to be able to develop its own talent base.
So was Willie Middlebrooks. The draft is like a box of chocolates....
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:01 PM   #8
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Cutler was once "just a draft pick" before he became the living legend that he is today. All "proven players" were once just draft picks and potential. And as our recent history has shown, at some point, a team needs to be able to develop its own talent base.
And Jarvis Moss was just a draft pick too--as was Terry Pierce, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, etc-----You have more of a chance of MISSING than striking gold and that is precisely why when you do hit on your pick--you build around that player. You don't sell that piece to get more chances to play a game where you lose more than you win........DUMB, DUMB , DUMB. Shoulda' Hired the EYE-Talian and kept Bates.........
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:02 PM   #9
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Long time Pats fan here. The Broncs killed the Bears in that trade. Two 1st's and a 3rd, plus a serviceable young QB with a good attitude. Four 1st round picks in the next 2 drafts. That is a bounty.

I can't recall a trade in many years as rich as that one. You dump a malcontent and get set up for the next 10 years. I don't think anyone expected Denver to win it all next year anyway, and now you're in position to be competitive for years.

Let me also say that you're gonna love Josh McDaniels. He's got a few things to learn about being a HC obviously, but you've got one of the bright minds in football, a great competitor and leader, yet the furthest thing from a blowhard. I hated to see him leave NE.
I realize Pats didn't win it all last 2 yrs but I was really impressed with the offensive play calling. I think Mcdaniels will call a good game in Denver and we won't be far from the 8 wins we had last yr. Maybe a couple less if the defense really struggles again.

I agree we are going to love him. He's the guy I wanted when the coaching search began and I'm sticking with him until i see him coach the team.

I don't know if these draft picks will make a huge difference but also you never know when your going to get lucky with a player. Broncos could use some good luck so I am hopeful.

Mcdaniels like you say has a lot to learn about being a head coach but I think Bowlen will give him the time and resources to succeed.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:07 PM   #10
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And Jarvis Moss was just a draft pick too--as was Terry Pierce, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, etc-----You have more of a chance of MISSING than striking gold and that is precisely why when you do hit on your pick--you build around that player. You don't sell that piece to get more chances to play a game where you lose more than you win........DUMB, DUMB , DUMB. Shoulda' Hired the EYE-Talian and kept Bates.........
I agree with you 100%. The thing is though Cutler didn't want to be a Bronco anymore. Also you can't let the QB pick the coaches, if that's what it took to keep Cutler then IMO you lose to much in the process.

It's true that both of these first round picks could be busts. It's also true Cutler could go on to be the best QB in the NFL.

only time will tell. I for one choose to believe Broncos will find some good players with those picks.

Also when so many first round picks are busts you might have to start to ask why? It falls on Shannahan and either poor evaluation, or failure to coach the players into good nfl starters.

I understand why people are upset, but the shoulda, coulda, what if's don't do much for me.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:08 PM   #11
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So was Willie Middlebrooks. The draft is like a box of chocolates....
exactly Shanny made some horrid draft picks, or the guys he hired did a poor job of evaluating them.

Lelie, Middlebrooks, that right there would get most GMS fired on the spot.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:13 PM   #12
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exactly Shanny made some horrid draft picks, or the guys he hired did a poor job of evaluating them.

Lelie, Middlebrooks, that right there would get most GMS fired on the spot.
Oh God yes. It's amazing we were competitive despite going through years and years w/out adding anyone to our roster. Lelie, in all seriousness, was one of the better picks during that era even!

That's what's frustrating. The last 3 drafts have been outstanding as a whole - but drafts take years to see the results in W's and L's. That's what I think Taco, SoCal and I've been saying, the fruits of those drafts were around the corner.

Oh well.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:19 PM   #13
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First, you're pointing out all the busts from the previous regime. I think most would agree that the Broncos drafted very poorly during most of Shanahan's tenure.

Second, it's irrelevant. I don't think McDaniels' master plan all along was to trade Cutler or to have this circus. I don't care about all this he said/he said stuff. In the end, Cutler didn't want to be here. I don't think McDaniels' management style is soft like how Shanahan and Bates might have managed Cutler. You're basically saying that Bowlen should have never hired McDaniels or that he should have let Cutler interview any potential head coaching candidates to make sure there was a personality match?

What has Cutler done to deserve that kind of sway? Watch this video, listen to Elway and how he talks about his teammates, how he talks about himself, how his teammates talk about him and then tell me if you see any of the same qualities in Cutler?

Elway's Greatest Comebacks 1/5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meIgSePwN94

Then listen to the latter half of this interview in which Shannon Sharpe explains why some of Cutler's body language and sideline demeanor bothers him.

Phone interview with Shannon Sharpe regarding Cutler trade:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f992e3

Shannon Sharpe: "I guess because... it's so unfair... I guess it's because I played 9 years with #7 and I just saw the way he conducted himself..."



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And Jarvis Moss was just a draft pick too--as

was Terry Pierce, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, etc-----You have more of a chance of MISSING than striking gold and that is precisely why when you do hit on your pick--you build around that player. You don't sell that piece to get more chances to play a game where you lose more than you win........DUMB, DUMB , DUMB. Shoulda' Hired the EYE-Talian and kept Bates.........

Last edited by anon; 04-03-2009 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:29 PM   #14
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Long time Pats fan here. The Broncs killed the Bears in that trade. Two 1st's and a 3rd, plus a serviceable young QB with a good attitude. Four 1st round picks in the next 2 drafts. That is a bounty.

I can't recall a trade in many years as rich as that one. You dump a malcontent and get set up for the next 10 years. I don't think anyone expected Denver to win it all next year anyway, and now you're in position to be competitive for years.

Let me also say that you're gonna love Josh McDaniels. He's got a few things to learn about being a HC obviously, but you've got one of the bright minds in football, a great competitor and leader, yet the furthest thing from a blowhard. I hated to see him leave NE.

Can you get your trash out of our yard?
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:35 PM   #15
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Long time Pats fan here. The Broncs killed the Bears in that trade. Two 1st's and a 3rd, plus a serviceable young QB with a good attitude. Four 1st round picks in the next 2 drafts. That is a bounty.

I can't recall a trade in many years as rich as that one. You dump a malcontent and get set up for the next 10 years. I don't think anyone expected Denver to win it all next year anyway, and now you're in position to be competitive for years.

Let me also say that you're gonna love Josh McDaniels. He's got a few things to learn about being a HC obviously, but you've got one of the bright minds in football, a great competitor and leader, yet the furthest thing from a blowhard. I hated to see him leave NE.
Everybody thinks we got the better deal except for Bear and Vanderbilt territory and his home state, Indiana. But, it's also interesting to note that the New England area has the most confidence that Josh's side got the better deal.

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Old 04-03-2009, 07:36 PM   #16
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And Jarvis Moss was just a draft pick too--as was Terry Pierce, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, etc-----You have more of a chance of MISSING than striking gold and that is precisely why when you do hit on your pick--you build around that player. You don't sell that piece to get more chances to play a game where you lose more than you win........DUMB, DUMB , DUMB. Shoulda' Hired the EYE-Talian and kept Bates.........
I live near and work in St. Louis, so just an FYI: Spagnuolo has completely blown up the Rams franchise. That includes coaches and fan favorite veteran players. If they weren't still on the hook for a big contract to Bulger he'd be gone too.

He also sent out a memo to all the players basically summarizing what McDaniels has been saying to date. No one is bigger than the team, everyone is just a piece in the puzzle to building a winning franchise, and that they would move any piece if they preferred the return.

So in short, Bates wouldn't have stayed. Dennison and Turner probably would've been canned as well. Cutler probably would've been ACTIVELY SHOPPED because after his little tantrum when Bates got let go Spagnuolo would want him out ASAP. We probably also would've looked to move Marshall by now as well, since his off field issues were also a key element in his memo to the team.

This notion that you could hire a guy to be your head coach and he'd come in and play the role of defensive coordinator is retarded. These guys want the HC job so they control the whole team. Its nothing like being a coordinator. If Spagnuolo was ok with that kind of a role he'd have stayed in New York.

Pioli is doing the same thing as a GM in KC. Dimitroff and Smith did the same in Atlanta last year. Belichick and Parcells do it with every new stop they make. Mike Shanahan did it when he first came here. The fact that McDaniels kept Turner and Dennison as well as the GM job staying in house suggests that he's been a lot more willing to retain the old regime than many of his peers.

That and Bates was a pretty mediocre play caller last year. The Oakland game in particular is a good example of his faults. He was pass happy and he'd key on a match up he thought he could win and wouldn't let off of it even when it wasn't working. I'm sure Cutler loved him because thats basically Cutler's mindset towards football in a nutshell as well, but it doesn't mean he was very good.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:36 PM   #17
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Maybe the Pats will trade us two of their (3) 2nd rounders for #18.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #18
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Im anxious to see how Orton does honestly....lol
Orton is gonna break off 2K in our system.

Now, if only we could get Foneco.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:50 PM   #19
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Maybe the Pats will trade us two of their (3) 2nd rounders for #18.
I'd rather they give us Kevin O'Connell. He's got more raw talent than any QB since Elway. He's going to tear this league up when he succeeds Tom Brady.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:16 PM   #20
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I'd rather they give us Kevin O'Connell. He's got more raw talent than any QB since Elway. He's going to tear this league up when he succeeds Tom Brady.
Now there is a QB I could rally behind. He is in a great situation right now. He will have his day.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:22 PM   #21
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Oh God yes. It's amazing we were competitive despite going through years and years w/out adding anyone to our roster. Lelie, in all seriousness, was one of the better picks during that era even!

That's what's frustrating. The last 3 drafts have been outstanding as a whole - but drafts take years to see the results in W's and L's. That's what I think Taco, SoCal and I've been saying, the fruits of those drafts were around the corner.

Oh well.
And the defense?

You talk as if the "fruits of those drafts" have suddenly gone poof. Only one guy is gone. The rest aren't going anywhere.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:53 PM   #22
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Long time Pats fan here. The Broncs killed the Bears in that trade. Two 1st's and a 3rd, plus a serviceable young QB with a good attitude. Four 1st round picks in the next 2 drafts. That is a bounty.

I can't recall a trade in many years as rich as that one. You dump a malcontent and get set up for the next 10 years. I don't think anyone expected Denver to win it all next year anyway, and now you're in position to be competitive for years.

Let me also say that you're gonna love Josh McDaniels. He's got a few things to learn about being a HC obviously, but you've got one of the bright minds in football, a great competitor and leader, yet the furthest thing from a blowhard. I hated to see him leave NE.
Hello 40yrpatsfan...I"m a 40 year Bronco fan...and have just one question.

Are you drunk? Or are you just being sarcastic?

The fact is...2 months ago if someone had proposed this trade, not a single soul on this board other than a couple of Cutler haters who loved Jake Plummer's dirty jock...would have voted for this.

When you have a 26 year old budding superstar with a cannon for an arm who is big, strong, mobile, and intelligent...you do NOT trade him...PERIOD. You just don't.

This year we get the 18th...big deal. Next year its probably 28th. That does not excite me even if we had the previous braintrust in place who proved they could draft superbly. This bunch we have zero idea if they know what they're doing in the draft room. If they behave like they did up till now I think we'll emerge with a horrible draft no matter how many picks we have. You're acting like the 4 picks are the trade...it's 2 not 4, and the 3rd? Who cares.

Kyle Orton? Gimme a break. I'm not at all sure he can beat out Chris Simms.

The guy has one season as a starter, mainly because REX GROSSMAN was the alternative...you're impressed by that?

He's nowhere near the talent Cutler is. Cutler is a "malcontent" because he didn't appreciate being disrespected by the new regime in the embarassing way they allowed the trade to come out, and then they lied to him about it on top of that, which even Shannon Sharp says is true. Bowlen's an idiot on the order or Robert Irsay...in fact Irsay was put in the position he was not by his own actions but by Elway's refusal to play for Frank Kush...that was not Irsay's fault. This WAS Bowlen's fault.

Bowlen should have jumped on top of this little punk 5 minutes after the leak hit the press and held a one-on-one in his office to explain how they do things in this organization. Instead he left him dangling like a fish on a hook to dig his hole even deeper...and then they wonder why Cutler didn't want to be here.

We'll see if the boy genius can draft or coach any better than he can manage people, but I'm not that hopeful. I was one of those looking for a change from Shanahan but right now I'd gladly swap this dude back for him.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:55 PM   #23
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Hello 40yrpatsfan...I"m a 40 year Bronco fan...and have just one question.

Are you drunk? Or are you just being sarcastic?

The fact is...2 months ago if someone had proposed this trade, not a single soul on this board other than a couple of Cutler haters who loved Jake Plummer's dirty jock...would have voted for this.

When you have a 26 year old budding superstar with a cannon for an arm who is big, strong, mobile, and intelligent...you do NOT trade him...PERIOD. You just don't.

This year we get the 18th...big deal. Next year its probably 28th. That does not excite me even if we had the previous braintrust in place who proved they could draft superbly. This bunch we have zero idea if they know what they're doing in the draft room. If they behave like they did up till now I think we'll emerge with a horrible draft no matter how many picks we have. You're acting like the 4 picks are the trade...it's 2 not 4, and the 3rd? Who cares.

Kyle Orton? Gimme a break. I'm not at all sure he can beat out Chris Simms.

The guy has one season as a starter, mainly because REX GROSSMAN was the alternative...you're impressed by that?

He's nowhere near the talent Cutler is. Cutler is a "malcontent" because he didn't appreciate being disrespected by the new regime in the embarassing way they allowed the trade to come out, and then they lied to him about it on top of that, which even Shannon Sharp says is true. Bowlen's an idiot on the order or Robert Irsay...in fact Irsay was put in the position he was not by his own actions but by Elway's refusal to play for Frank Kush...that was not Irsay's fault. This WAS Bowlen's fault.

Bowlen should have jumped on top of this little punk 5 minutes after the leak hit the press and held a one-on-one in his office to explain how they do things in this organization. Instead he left him dangling like a fish on a hook to dig his hole even deeper...and then they wonder why Cutler didn't want to be here.

We'll see if the boy genius can draft or coach any better than he can manage people, but I'm not that hopeful. I was one of those looking for a change from Shanahan but right now I'd gladly swap this dude back for him.
Youre 40? You always came off as younger. Some Culter apologists act as if 1) the broncos were any good and 2) Cutler is the innocent victim here.

Lets wait till we watch the broncos team play this year before we start calling for a coach's head.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:59 PM   #24
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Youre 40? You always came off as younger. Some Culter apologists act as if 1) the broncos were any good and 2) Cutler is the innocent victim here.

Lets wait till we watch the broncos team play this year before we start calling for a coach's head.
49...and deep down you know we were raped. It's just comforting to deny it.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:05 PM   #25
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49...and deep down you know we were raped. It's just comforting to deny it.
I would have preferred none of this ever happened, but i do not think we were raped at all. We have been given the ability to rebuild our defense and, if McD can create a system QB, then we can have a very functional offense and a completely rebuilt defense.

Jay Cutler, as much as I enjoyed watching him play, was hardly perfect. He often locked in on receivers, forced many balls, and couldnt read underneath coverage to save his life (how many friggin picks did he throw to lurking LBs). He also has a ton of growing up to do..and i dont mean just off the field. He often lost his composure during games and would try to score 14 points on every drive. Do i think he could have outgrown it? Sure, he's probably not even in his prime yet. And because he's less cerebral than other QBs out there, he truly might not be a fit in the McD offense (though im sure he could have been successful)

Time will certainly tell. I'll say this though. If we trade up to draft a qb in the first round, ill say it was horribly dumb. In fact, i dont even want a QB in the first 4 picks. Defense Defense Defense
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