The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



View Poll Results: Who is more valuable to the Denver Broncos
Josh McDaniels we will get mad compensation for Jay 28 33.73%
Jay Cutler, he's a true franchise QB and good HCs are a dime a dozen. 55 66.27%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2009, 03:04 PM   #1
baja
Elite Sissie
 
baja's Avatar
 
Because

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 59,481

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Cito's Sissies
Default Who is more important to the Denver Broncos and why.....

Jay Cutler or Josh McDaniels
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #2
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,136
Default

Jay Cutler, he's a true franchise QB and good HCs are a dime a dozen.

We don't even know if he is a good head coach at this point.
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:10 PM   #3
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,136
Default

baja....the bear (this story) sleeps for a few days and you just have to poke it with a stick.
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:11 PM   #4
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,834

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Coach/GM - It's his vision. His plan. He's the general. If someone's insubordinate, they need to go and buy in. Great players often don't win championships because the coach and/or GM can't get a good enough team around them to win. Teams have also won championships without (insert marquee player at marquee position) on their team. It comes to good coaches and good managers building a good team that works as a unit.

And I'm not saying McDaniels is awesome, but I'm also not saying he sucks. I'm just saying the team's success rides on him having his crap together more than other positions.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:13 PM   #5
SoCalBronco
Nixonite
 
SoCalBronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arcadia, CA
Posts: 35,532

Adopt-a-Bronco:
D.J. Williams
Default

Obviously, Jay Cutler.

He brings more value. He's simply worth alot more. He's a young, elite QB that many respected analysts believe is the best young QB in the game (Jaws, Mayock, Martz etc.) and at worst, is simply among the best young QBs in the game. He's got terrific physical tools, he's shown he can come back from deficits and can put the team on his back. It's been conclusively shown that when he has even an average defense, he leads the team to a whole lot more wins than losses. He's just a special talent. He's got tremendous arm strength, very good accuracy, excellent velocity and can elude pressure and make something out of nothing.

Without Jay Cutler, we would have gone 3-13 last year. We've seen a number of folks (Kirwan et al) say that at the very least he's worth two first round picks. Do you think anyone would give up 2 first rounders for our "coach" (if trading picks for coaches were still allowed)?

Jay Cutler has proven time and time again that he's a stud. He's wild at times and is overaggressive, perhaps too confident in his ability to throw a ball through a carwash without getting it wet and that sometimes leads to mistakes, but he's a stud in any event. What has Josh McDaniels accomplished as Head Coach of this team? Has he won any Super Bowls for us? Has he won any games for us? He was given more offensive talent than the Patriots had in their prior Super Bowl wins and all he could muster was a few points in the Super Bowl as a coordinator. He's proven that he can botch even the slightest of crises.

It's not even close. He hasn't shown that he has any value to us, yet. What value does he have? When he leads us to successful outcomes on the backs of players other than those he inherited, then he will demonstrate his value.
As of right now, he has no value. It is not a difficult question.
__________________


Go Canes!
SoCalBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:15 PM   #6
razorwire77
Tapenade Swagga
 
razorwire77's Avatar
 
"Not too shabby."

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 4,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Bradley Roby
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Coach/GM - It's his vision. His plan. He's the general. If someone's insubordinate, they need to go and buy in. Great players often don't win championships because the coach and/or GM can't get a good enough team around them to win. Teams have also won championships without (insert marquee player at marquee position) on their team. It comes to good coaches and good managers building a good team that works as a unit.

And I'm not saying McDaniels is awesome, but I'm also not saying he sucks. I'm just saying the team's success rides on him having his crap together more than other positions.
Rep. Couldn't have said it better myself, and that's why I voted McDaniels. We don't know what he'll be as a coach, but if he's sucks we're doomed with or without a franchise QB, if he's young and dynamic we could win without one.
razorwire77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:16 PM   #7
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,834

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie View Post
Jay Cutler, he's a true franchise QB and good HCs are a dime a dozen.

We don't even know if he is a good head coach at this point.
Dan Marino and John Elway were superior players to Joe Montana, but Montana had an all-world coach that built a system around his strengths and made him one of the most successful quarterbacks in NFL history. Tom Brady and both Mannings aren't half as athletic as some of the quarterbacks out there, including our own, but they have general managers and coaches who know how to build a team.

Most importantly, neither of those guys gets in the way of management trying to dictate how their front office should run. In fact none of the greats ever do anything but suck it up when they disagree with management. They usually just go to work to try and show them how "wrong" they are. Our QB is throwing a tantrum, demanding a trade, and shunning his responsibilities as team leader because he's worrying about how someone else is doing their job - a job he has nothing to do with.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:19 PM   #8
GreatBronco16
!!!TEAM!!!
 
GreatBronco16's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bama Baby
Posts: 6,435

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Defense
Default

Well I guess Jay is more important. I mean, Shanny got canned, and he was told that it was his job until he didn't want it anymore.
GreatBronco16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:21 PM   #9
AbileneBroncoFan
Pro Bowler
 
AbileneBroncoFan's Avatar
 
Do your job.

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 563

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Brian Dawkins
Default

Remind me how many yards, first downs, and touchdowns Josh McDaniels has scored in his illustrious NFL career. Oh. Zero. That's right. Doesn't matter how good the scheme is if Chris Simms is running it you're ****ed.
AbileneBroncoFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:22 PM   #10
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 19,739
Default

McDiggit can't throw passes so I'll say Cutler
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:22 PM   #11
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 19,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbileneBroncoFan View Post
Remind me how many yards, first downs, and touchdowns Josh McDaniels has scored in his illustrious NFL career. Oh. Zero. That's right. Doesn't matter how good the scheme is if Chris Simms is running it you're ****ed.
Oh I couldn't have said it better
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:23 PM   #12
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,834

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

You guys are hilarious. If our coach sucks it doesn't matter how good Jay Cutler is. By the same token, good coaches can make average QB's (Eli Manning) win super bowls.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:23 PM   #13
GreatBronco16
!!!TEAM!!!
 
GreatBronco16's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bama Baby
Posts: 6,435

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Defense
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oubronco View Post
McDiggit can't throw passes so I'll say Cutler
And Jay Cutler can't draw up a gameplan and make all the calls, including reading the defense.
GreatBronco16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:25 PM   #14
GreatBronco16
!!!TEAM!!!
 
GreatBronco16's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bama Baby
Posts: 6,435

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Defense
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbileneBroncoFan View Post
Remind me how many yards, first downs, and touchdowns Josh McDaniels has scored in his illustrious NFL career. Oh. Zero. That's right. Doesn't matter how good the scheme is if Chris Simms is running it you're ****ed.
Hmm, Tom Brady gets injured in first game, insert complete unknown Matt Cassel. NE fans think their team is doomed, but he seemed to run the offense pretty good.

Granted Chris Simms is no Matt Cassel.
GreatBronco16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:25 PM   #15
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

McDaniels.

The arguments for Cutler in this thread are the exact reasons why he's not more important than the head coach. Jay's petulent act since this thing broke reinforces the argument that the inmates do not run the asylum. No one individual player is greater than this team, nor should any player himself be able to claim that he's so important his name should never be discussed with regards to trades. Because of this, McDaniels wins by default.

And picks can still be traded for coaches, it was never removed. Tags only made it so that the Leauge would have to approve any such transaction, thus basically killing the process.

Last edited by Hercules Rockefeller; 03-28-2009 at 03:27 PM..
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:26 PM   #16
Doggcow
Please Help Rebel
 
Doggcow's Avatar
 
http://www.gofundme.com/cvqzik

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,957

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatBronco16 View Post
And Jay Cutler can't draw up a gameplan and make all the calls, including reading the defense.
I could see him become the type of playcaller Manning is if he chooses to.
Doggcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:28 PM   #17
Atlas
Draft Defense Early&Often
 
Atlas's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Coach/GM - It's his vision. His plan. He's the general. If someone's insubordinate, they need to go and buy in. Great players often don't win championships because the coach and/or GM can't get a good enough team around them to win. Teams have also won championships without (insert marquee player at marquee position) on their team. It comes to good coaches and good managers building a good team that works as a unit.

And I'm not saying McDaniels is awesome, but I'm also not saying he sucks. I'm just saying the team's success rides on him having his crap together more than other positions.
That's not really what the poll is about. How many coaches are around that could coach the Broncos successfully? How many QBs are there. Cutler at least has proven to be a very promising 25 year-old Pro Bowl QB. McDaniel's hasn't done anything. He went to a three time Superbowl Championship dynasty and they haven't won anything since. Plus all the other coaches that have left N.E. have been colossal flops.

I'll take Cutler. As of course everyone knows by now. In fact I'll also take Shanahan, Raheem, Ryan or Spagnola over McCheese while were at it.
Atlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:29 PM   #18
SoCalBronco
Nixonite
 
SoCalBronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arcadia, CA
Posts: 35,532

Adopt-a-Bronco:
D.J. Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
. No one individual player is greater than this team, .
McDaniels does not represent the team. He's nothing more than another individual. He too, is not more important than the team.
__________________


Go Canes!
SoCalBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:32 PM   #19
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
McDaniels does not represent the team. He's nothing more than another individual. He too, is not more important than the team.
McDaniels is not a player, so your analogy falls flat. Jay is an inmate, Josh is the warden. Jay may become what we all hope he can be, but he is not there yet. He does not dictate anything with regards to this team, nor should he. McDaniels OTOH is the one who sets everything, whether the fans agree or not that he should be in that position or if they agree or not with his decisions, Josh is the one who is in charge.
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:34 PM   #20
Dedhed
Ring of Famer
 
Dedhed's Avatar
 
Fare thee well

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,217

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Q Smith
Default

There have been far more systems that have carried players to titles than individual players who have done likewise.
Dedhed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:36 PM   #21
SoCalBronco
Nixonite
 
SoCalBronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arcadia, CA
Posts: 35,532

Adopt-a-Bronco:
D.J. Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
McDaniels is not a player, so your analogy falls flat. Jay is an inmate, Josh is the warden. Jay may become what we all hope he can be, but he is not there yet. He does not dictate anything with regards to this team, nor should he. McDaniels OTOH is the one who sets everything, whether the fans disagree or not that he should be in that position or if they agree with his decisions, Josh is the one who is in charge.
McDaniels might be in charge, but he does not represent the team. His views and his actions regarding what he believes is in the best interest of the team are not necessarily what is in the best interest of the team. He's just another individual...except with more power to use and/or abuse.
__________________


Go Canes!
SoCalBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:36 PM   #22
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,682

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

I'd like Cutler to be the QB of this team, but this lovefest some have for him is beyond the pale. I can only imagine what it would be like if the guy had a winning record as QB and had led the team to the playoffs at least once.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:39 PM   #23
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,242

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
McDaniels might be in charge, but he does not represent the team. His views and his actions regarding what he believes is in the best interest of the team are not necessarily what is in the best interest of the team. He's just another individual...except with more power to use and/or abuse.
He's in charge, so by definition he makes the moves that are in the best interest of this team, despite the tin-foil hat theory of some on this board (not you) that he's trying to **** this team over. Just because you don't agree with his decision to consider trading Jay does not mean that he's not acting in the best interest of this franchise. Just like there are 53 players who need to perform in order to remain on the roster, JM has to perform in order to keep his job. To say that he would willfully make decisions to hurt this team, and therefore his ability for current and future employment, is completely illogical.
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:41 PM   #24
Dedhed
Ring of Famer
 
Dedhed's Avatar
 
Fare thee well

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,217

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Q Smith
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
McDaniels might be in charge, but he does not represent the team. His views and his actions regarding what he believes is in the best interest of the team are not necessarily what is in the best interest of the team. He's just another individual...except with more power to use and/or abuse.
That makes no sense. 'Best interest' is a matter of perspective, and if you're calling the shots, you represent the team.

That's like saying the President doesn't represent the USA because there are people who disagree with him. Silly.
Dedhed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:41 PM   #25
Rabb
No Luca, No!
 
Rabb's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,352

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dynamite Monkey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbileneBroncoFan View Post
Remind me how many yards, first downs, and touchdowns Josh McDaniels has scored in his illustrious NFL career. Oh. Zero. That's right. Doesn't matter how good the scheme is if Chris Simms is running it you're ****ed.
this might be the most ignorant post I have read yet during this whole debacle

how many yards, first downs, and touchdowns did Shanny score or gained himself?

if I remember right, New England had a pretty damn good offense with or without Brady

seriously, you people are amazing
Rabb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Denver Broncos