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Old 03-21-2009, 10:28 PM   #1
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Default Cutler for the Birds? Forget it

Mark Eckel -njtimes.com

Denver quarterback Jay Cutler is going to be traded, the only question is where.

A report came out of Denver on Friday that 10 teams have expressed interest in the disgruntled quarterback. Could the Eagles be one of those 10 teams?

While a Cutler-for-Donovan McNabb trade is great for talk-show fodder -- believe me, it works like a charm -- and while several Eagles fans seem to think it would be good for their team, I wouldn't do it.

Yes, Cutler, who turns 26 next month, is six years younger than McNabb, and that's a plus. He's just not as good. And for every Eagles fan who complains that McNabb can't win "the big game," well, Cutler can't win "the small game."

Consider that the Broncos had been a playoff team for three straight years, with Jake Plummer at quarterback, before Cutler took over for him near the end of the 2006 season.

Denver, 7-4 when Cutler replaced Plummer, missed the playoffs that season, as it stumbled to a 2-3 finish under the rookie Cutler and lost a wild-card tie-breaker to Kansas City.

The following season, 2007, the Broncos went 7-9 under Cutler's guidance and last year finished 8-8, losing their final three games of the season to blow what looked like a sure division title.

In those losses last seasons to Carolina, Buffalo and San Diego, Cutler, whose season passer rating was 87.1, put up a 74, a 72 and a 74 rating. In the three games, he threw four interceptions and just two touchdown passes.

That's not coming up big when your team needs you.


In three years, Cutler has a career record of 17-20 and has yet to taste the playoffs, never mind win a playoff game. His 45 touchdowns passes to 32 interceptions borders on just slightly above average.

After McNabb's third season, he had three playoff wins and had been to the first of his five NFC Championship Games. His record as a starter after his third season was 24-14 and he threw 54 touchdowns to 32 interceptions. Burn!

The other criticism of McNabb is that he is too sensitive, still gets bothered that he was booed by a group of fans on draft day, let's too many outside things bother him.

Cutler takes all of that to another level.

He was upset the Broncos fired the only head coach he ever had in Mike Shanahan, despite the fact that was long overdue, and then got more upset when the team hired Josh McDaniels to take over.

It seems Cutler wanted input on those decisions.

Then when word got out that McDaniels was thinking of trading him in a package deal that would have landed Matt Cassel in Denver, that's when Cutler lost it and finally demanded a trade.

This all comes from a quarterback with a career record under .500 who has never been to the playoffs.


If Cutler was smart, and you would think a guy who went to Vanderbilt would be very smart -- by the way, Vandy went winless in his senior season -- he would have welcomed McDaniels as his head coach.

In New England, McDaniels worked with the game's best quarterback in Tom Brady and helped turn Cassel into a guy who after one year as a starter was in high demand around the league.

Imagine Cutler in Philadelphia trying to deal with the fishbowl life of being the Eagles' starting quarterback. He might not last half a season.

Hey, this space has been quick to point out McNabb's flaws, but at the same time mentioned his accomplishments. There is no way I'm trading him for Cutler.

Way back in 1964, the Eagles did make a rare quarterback-for-quarterback trade. They sent a 30-year-old, who they felt had seen his best days, to Washington for an up-and-coming 25-year-old with a bright future.

The guy they traded was Sonny Jurgensen, who went on to a Hall of Fame career with the Redskins. The guy they got back was Norman Snead, who went 28-48-3 in seven very bad years with the Eagles.

http://www.nj.com/columns/times/inde...l=5&thispage=2
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:36 PM   #2
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Quick let's get a 5th round pick for him while we still can.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:37 PM   #3
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Plummer played like piss and won games; has Cutler ever had a poor rating and had the rest of the team still pull a win? I guess people magically forget that the team was a little more complete from '03 to halfway through '06 before the defense blew up.

But hey, I'm just using my memory here. WhattaIknow?
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:47 PM   #4
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Vandy did NOT got winless in his senior season. And his TD-INT ratio for his career is 54-37.

I'm by no means a Cutlerite. But this article's writer did not do his homework.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:53 PM   #5
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very shallow logic from a dude who obviously hasnt even followed Cutlers career from even a faraway distance, and has obviously not followed this situation very closely. Wonder if this guy is related to Bernie Lincicome.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by HEAV View Post
n those losses last seasons to Carolina, Buffalo and San Diego, Cutler, whose season passer rating was 87.1, put up a 74, a 72 and a 74 rating. In the three games, he threw four interceptions and just two touchdown passes.

That's not coming up big when your team needs you.
Yeah our defense only gave up 37 points per game in that 3 game stretch.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:00 PM   #7
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Yeah our defense only gave up 37 points per game in that 3 game stretch.
Didnt you get the memo? Cutler was suppose to score 38 per game in that stretch.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:14 PM   #8
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Plummer played like piss and won games?
(Better stats in bold)

Cutler's Broncos QB Rating: 87
Plummer's Broncos QB Rating: 84

Cutler TD/INT Ratio as a Bronco: 1.45
Plummer TD/INT Ratio as a Bronco: 1:51

(Plummer average passes per game: 27.0
Cutler average passes per game: 29.7)


Plummer fumbles per-game: 0.13
Cutler fumbles per-game: 0.21

Cutler saked per game: 1.37
Plummer sacked per game: 1.16

Cutler average yards per completion: 7.4
Plummer average yards per copmlettion: 7.17

So, Plummer threw less INTs per passes thrown, more TDs, was sacked less often per game, fumbled less and won more games per start, while throwing almost an identical number of passes per game, for just a slightly lower yards-per-pass average.

Sorry, come again with the "playing like piss" angle again?

Maybe your "memory" isn't so great after all.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Popps View Post
(Better stats in bold)

Cutler's Broncos QB Rating: 87
Plummer's Broncos QB Rating: 84

Cutler TD/INT Ratio as a Bronco: 1.45
Plummer TD/INT Ratio as a Bronco: 1:51

(Plummer average passes per game: 27.0
Cutler average passes per game: 29.7)


Plummer fumbles per-game: 0.13
Cutler fumbles per-game: 0.21

Cutler saked per game: 1.37
Plummer sacked per game: 1.16

Cutler average yards per completion: 7.4
Plummer average yards per copmlettion: 7.17

So, Plummer threw less INTs per passes thrown, more TDs, was sacked less often per game, fumbled less and won more games per start, while throwing almost an identical number of passes per game, for just a slightly lower yards-per-pass average.

Sorry, come again with the "playing like piss" angle again?

Maybe your "memory" isn't so great after all.
Plummer was awesome...of course he had clinton portis and mike anderson, and also kubiak calling the plays.

Jay had mike hiemerdinger(sp?) and mike bell. also, jay's line had erik pears and a should have retired matt lepsis.

but that's just my memory

oh, and plummer was a 10 year vet, while cutler has played two season's
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:19 PM   #10
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Look, and before anyone gets into the Cutler/Plummer wars... that's not the point. Jay has more physical talent than Jake, obviously.

But, this idea that we'll be incapable of winning another game for the rest of the franchise existence if we don't have Cutler is idiotic.

You can see a big divide out there in opinion over how much he's worth. A lot of people are asking if they should mortgage their futures for the guy. As the article points out, you can blame everything on everyone else if you want... but if he's a true franchise QB, why did his numbers look so awful in the last three games, when we needed production the most? Certainly, he was in a rough spot, but he also made a lot of terrible throws.

So, again.... I'd still like to see him back in Denver. His upside potential is still intriguing, but you folks talking about this guy like he's done something really need a ****ing reality check.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:22 PM   #11
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Plumber was awesome...of course he had clinton portis and mike anderson, and also kubiak calling the plays.

Jay had mike hiemerdinger(sp?) and mike bell. also, jay's line had erik pears and a should have retired matt lepsis.

but that's just my memory
Ahhhh.... so, Clinton Portis made Jay fumble more often, huh.

Erik Pears made Jay throw more INTs?

Jay playing behind the best Bronco line (this year) since the late 90s doesn't count for anything?

Royal, Marshall, Stokley are worse than an aging Rod Smith and Ashley Lelie?


But, let's just go with your notion that Jay is just a poor guy on a bad team.... and Jake is an oaf with no QB talents... what do the results of both of their respective teams tell you?
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:23 PM   #12
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Look, and before anyone gets into the Cutler/Plummer wars... that's not the point. Jay has more physical talent than Jake, obviously.

But, this idea that we'll be incapable of winning another game for the rest of the franchise existence if we don't have Cutler is idiotic.

You can see a big divide out there in opinion over how much he's worth. A lot of people are asking if they should mortgage their futures for the guy. As the article points out, you can blame everything on everyone else if you want... but if he's a true franchise QB, why did his numbers look so awful in the last three games, when we needed production the most? Certainly, he was in a rough spot, but he also made a lot of terrible throws.

So, again.... I'd still like to see him back in Denver. His upside potential is still intriguing, but you folks talking about this guy like he's done something really need a ****ing reality check.
those of us who say Jay has done something are generally from the camp of "I have watched football alot, and I understand how the game is played" crowd.

You see, none of us pro jay crowd have ever said that he is at this point the best qb in the game. We recognize the situation he is in, and see a once in a generation player.

anyone that is o.k. with losing that over a pissing contest need a ****ing reality check.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:24 PM   #13
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FYI, when the Denver defense performed better than the league average im the last two years, cutler is 12-1. The league average for his starting tenure has been 21 pts per game.
Can we please stop considering his win loss record when he is evalutated as a player?
Football is a team sport and idiots have little trouble connecting to the internet.

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Old 03-21-2009, 11:26 PM   #14
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Ahhhh.... so, Clinton Portis made Jay fumble more often, huh.

Erik Pears made Jay throw more INTs?

Jay playing behind the best Bronco line (this year) since the late 90s doesn't count for anything?

Royal, Marshall, Stokley are worse than an aging Rod Smith and Ashley Lelie?


But, let's just go with your notion that Jay is just a poor guy on a bad team.... and Jake is an oaf with no QB talents... what do the results of both of their respective teams tell you?

never said any of that. take heav's ********* your mouth and listen up...

I liked plummer, I like Jay. I love the denver broncos. and I'm getting sick of your piss poor attitude. you come in here every day to pump more venom and it is disturbing.

you need to stop being a ****ing crybaby and shut the **** up.

We went to the afccg with Jake, I loved him, but if you want to talk about fumbles and interceptions, maybe the five turnover's your man crush had in that game had something to do with trading up to draft jay.

JESUS ****ING CHRIST, get over man. Jay cutler doesn't hold a grudge like you.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:35 PM   #15
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Didnt you get the memo? Cutler was suppose to score 38 per game in that stretch.
Carolina and Buffalo scored 30 points.

I thought the line of reasoning around here was that Jay Cutler was the key to our existence because he'd win us games over 30 points. What happened on those days?

Was it maybe the INT at our own 25 that he threw on first down against Carolina when we had a lead, and instead... allowed them to tie?

The interception late in the Buffalo game on a potential game tying drive, or missing Stokley in the endzone at the end of the same game?

Certainly, we were outmatched in San Diego, but Jay's red-zone INT didn't help that day, either...

...and let's remember Jay's game-losing fumble at crunch time against SD that our buddy Ed helped us out with.


So, again... while no one is questioning his arm strength or ability to throw for good fantasy football yardage, he's accomplished nothing. So, to speak of him as a "franchise" quarterback in just silly.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:38 PM   #16
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never said any of that. take heav's ********* your mouth and listen up...

I liked plummer, I like Jay. I love the denver broncos. and I'm getting sick of your piss poor attitude. you come in here every day to pump more venom and it is disturbing.

you need to stop being a ****ing crybaby and shut the **** up.

We went to the afccg with Jake, I loved him, but if you want to talk about fumbles and interceptions, maybe the five turnover's your man crush had in that game had something to do with trading up to draft jay.

JESUS ****ING CHRIST, get over man. Jay cutler doesn't hold a grudge like you.

Ahhhhh... poor guy. Life's got you all bugaboo, huh?

All that cursing, and you still miss the point.

I don't really care if you liked Jake, and my attitude is great! I'm extremely excited about this team going forward.

The FOUNDATION of my argument is that we are not DOOMED if we have to go another direction at QB. So, contrary to your little outburst, I'm the OPTIMIST here.

If you want negativity, it's plentiful. People are talking about not buying team gear, giving up season tickets, calling the coach a "douche" before he's coached a game, calling us Patriots-west... cheaters, you name it.

But, you're barking up the wrong tree, junior. I'm stoked about this team's future.

There are plenty of piss-poor attitudes... but ya got the wrong guy, bud.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by NUB View Post
Plummer played like piss and won games; has Cutler ever had a poor rating and had the rest of the team still pull a win? I guess people magically forget that the team was a little more complete from '03 to halfway through '06 before the defense blew up.

But hey, I'm just using my memory here. WhattaIknow?

yeah none of these supposed experts weigh in the factor that while Plummer was QB here, he was a part of good teams that had defenses and running games. in fact the 2006 season our defense began the season as one of the best ever in terms of points allowed, but in the second half during the time Cutler took over they suffered a collapse that has not been fixed yet.

in his 3 years our running game never looked worse in Shanahan's tenure as a HC, we haven't had anyone with real talent running the ball, and because of that Jay is facing defenses playing just the pass and taking away a lot of options and receivers which forces him to have to throw ill advised passes.

anyone can look like a pro bowler when the defense is good and your teams running game has to be kept in check. it is a lot harder to do that without a defense or running game around you. in fact 17-20 is a damn miracle considering the High School JV defense and non existent running game Jay has had his entire career.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Popps View Post
(Better stats in bold)

Cutler's Broncos QB Rating: 87
Plummer's Broncos QB Rating: 84

Cutler TD/INT Ratio as a Bronco: 1.45
Plummer TD/INT Ratio as a Bronco: 1:51

(Plummer average passes per game: 27.0
Cutler average passes per game: 29.7)


Plummer fumbles per-game: 0.13
Cutler fumbles per-game: 0.21

Cutler saked per game: 1.37
Plummer sacked per game: 1.16

Cutler average yards per completion: 7.4
Plummer average yards per copmlettion: 7.17

So, Plummer threw less INTs per passes thrown, more TDs, was sacked less often per game, fumbled less and won more games per start, while throwing almost an identical number of passes per game, for just a slightly lower yards-per-pass average.

Sorry, come again with the "playing like piss" angle again?

Maybe your "memory" isn't so great after all.
Plummer had good defenses around him. he had good running games around him. since Jay took over he has had a defense allowing almost 30 points a game. Jake(as much as i liked him) never had to carry the team. he wasn't the only weapon that had to be kept in check by the defense. and instead of being trusted with a full playbook he was given a partial playbook and was asked to only throw high percentage passes while Jay is being asked to go out and win on his own, while Jake was being asked not to go out and lose games

you can spout out the stats all you want, but the point is, give the guy half the help Jake had and Jay will match or better his stats and win just as many or more games.

also, since your a stat guy, 13-1 when the defense allows less than 23 a game. get him a defense that allows 1 TD less a game and he is almost unbeatable. and those are numbers talking, not Homerism.

Last edited by BroncoMan4ever; 03-21-2009 at 11:54 PM..
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:53 PM   #19
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Heav, are you purposely wanting Denver to get rid of Cutler? I'm dissapointed in his actions in regards to the trade, but I dont want him gone. What he do to you? Run over your cat or something?


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Old 03-21-2009, 11:53 PM   #20
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it is really getting to the point with Popps where i am convinced he is Mel Kiper in real life. I swear to god it seems like he has a personal vendetta against Jay with no reason.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:54 PM   #21
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Ahhhhh... poor guy. Life's got you all bugaboo, huh?

All that cursing, and you still miss the point.

I don't really care if you liked Jake, and my attitude is great! I'm extremely excited about this team going forward.

The FOUNDATION of my argument is that we are not DOOMED if we have to go another direction at QB. So, contrary to your little outburst, I'm the OPTIMIST here.

If you want negativity, it's plentiful. People are talking about not buying team gear, giving up season tickets, calling the coach a "douche" before he's coached a game, calling us Patriots-west... cheaters, you name it.

But, you're barking up the wrong tree, junior. I'm stoked about this team's future.

There are plenty of piss-poor attitudes... but ya got the wrong guy, bud.
Nice try popps, If you were so "stoked" and "positive" than you wouldn't be the running joke around here.

An optimist is not another term for biased.

they are completely unrelated.

I think you should take a few days off from here and clear your old, demented head.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:56 PM   #22
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it is really getting to the point with Popps where i am convinced he is Mel Kiper in real life. I swear to god it seems like he has a personal vendetta against Jay with no reason.
it's more than "seems"...

oh wait, he's an optimist with a great attitude!
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:57 PM   #23
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Carolina and Buffalo scored 30 points.
Yeah I know people had trouble deciphering our defense from the '00 Ravens those 2 games.


Quote:
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I thought the line of reasoning around here was that Jay Cutler was the key to our existence because he'd win us games over 30 points. What happened on those days?
Ive never said that, and Ive never seen or heard anyone else say that. In fact, I argued that neither he, nor ANY quarteback could consistently win those games. Throwing shlt against a wall, hoping something sticks again.

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Was it maybe the INT at our own 25 that he threw on first down against Carolina when we had a lead, and instead... allowed them to tie?

The interception late in the Buffalo game on a potential game tying drive, or missing Stokley in the endzone at the end of the same game?

Certainly, we were outmatched in San Diego, but Jay's red-zone INT didn't help that day, either...

...and let's remember Jay's game-losing fumble at crunch time against SD that our buddy Ed helped us out with.
How about if either of your mancrushes, Simms or Plummer were quarterbacking, we would never even be in any one of those games to begin with? Rather than winning one, and damn near winning the other.



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So, again... while no one is questioning his arm strength or ability to throw for good fantasy football yardage, he's accomplished nothing. So, to speak of him as a "franchise" quarterback in just silly.
And by using your same logic, I could point to the '84 game against the Steelers, the '85 game against the Raiders, the '86 Super Bowl against the Giants, the '87 Super Bowl against the Redskins, the entire '88 season, the entire '90 season, the '91 game against the Bills, the '94 opener against the Chargers, the final 3 games of that season where we totally collapsed, and the '96 game against the Jags to prove a similar unbelievably stupid point that Elway was never a franchise quarterback.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:11 AM   #24
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Carolina and Buffalo scored 30 points.

I thought the line of reasoning around here was that Jay Cutler was the key to our existence because he'd win us games over 30 points. What happened on those days?

Was it maybe the INT at our own 25 that he threw on first down against Carolina when we had a lead, and instead... allowed them to tie?

The interception late in the Buffalo game on a potential game tying drive, or missing Stokley in the endzone at the end of the same game?

Certainly, we were outmatched in San Diego, but Jay's red-zone INT didn't help that day, either...

...and let's remember Jay's game-losing fumble at crunch time against SD that our buddy Ed helped us out with.


So, again... while no one is questioning his arm strength or ability to throw for good fantasy football yardage, he's accomplished nothing. So, to speak of him as a "franchise" quarterback in just silly.
Oh **** our D only allowed 30 points. God for some reason I thought allowing 30 points still sucked.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:13 AM   #25
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Yeah I know people had trouble deciphering our defense from the '00 Ravens those 2 games.




Ive never said that, and Ive never seen or heard anyone else say that. In fact, I argued that neither he, nor ANY quarteback could consistently win those games. Throwing shlt against a wall, hoping something sticks again.



How about if either of your mancrushes, Simms or Plummer were quarterbacking, we would never even be in any one of those games to begin with? Rather than winning one, and damn near winning the other.





And by using your same logic, I could point to the '84 game against the Steelers, the '85 game against the Raiders, the '86 Super Bowl against the Giants, the '87 Super Bowl against the Redskins, the entire '88 season, the entire '90 season, the '91 game against the Bills, the '94 opener against the Chargers, the final 3 games of that season where we totally collapsed, and the '96 game against the Jags to prove a similar unbelievably stupid point that Elway was never a franchise quarterback.
I genuinely suspect that if the Mane had been in existence back when Reeves tried to trade Elway to the Redskins, Popps would have been defending his right to do it. And minimizing Elway's accomplishments to that date....
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