The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2009, 01:31 AM   #1
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default Coach McDaniels' 'win now' pitch in peril with Broncos' QB controversy

Coach McDaniels' 'win now' pitch in peril with Broncos' QB controversy

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- One reason the Denver Broncos have been the busiest team is free agency is the pitch that new coach Josh McDaniels has used to land his 16 recruits: Let's win now and leave the rebuilding to someone else.

"I didn't want to go into no situation where a team's going to be rebuilding again," new Broncos linebacker Andra Davis said.

But can the Broncos realistically expect to win right away if Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler gets his wish to be traded?

Could they win with another established quarterback they might land by granting their best player his request? Can Denver return to the playoffs after a three-year drought behind newcomer Chris Simms, who has thrown just two passes since 2006?

What if the Broncos go with a rookie passer plucked from the college ranks on draft day?

It's not something Davis wanted to contemplate Thursday after running wind sprints at high altitude.

"I've been through a lot of quarterback controversies in Cleveland and I play defense. The quarterbacks and the management, they handle all that," Davis said. "Whatever's going to happen is going to happen. We just have to focus on ourselves. We can't worry about nobody else."

Cutler asked for a trade through his agent, Bus Cook, after talks with McDaniels failed to soothe his hurt feelings, which stemmed from the coach bringing up the quarterback's name in trade talks for Matt Cassel, his protege in New England and who was dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs instead.

McDaniels, who spent the past three seasons as the Patriots' offensive coordinator, would rather iron things out with Cutler than trade him on his terms.

Several teams need a quarterback of Cutler's caliber, however, and McDaniels and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders are sure to be approached by prospective suitors when the NFL owners gather Sunday in Dana Point, Calif., for their annual meeting.

Cutler is just 17-20 as a starter, but that's a deceiving record: The Broncos have had horrendous defenses ever since he took over from Jake Plummer late in 2006.

In games that the Broncos have allowed 21 points or fewer, Cutler is an impressive 13-1, and that only loss was to Green Bay in 2007 when the Packers won the coin toss and Brett Favre threw an 82-yard touchdown pass on the first play of overtime.

Cutler is skipping Denver's voluntary offseason training program, where players have been running and lifting weights this week and answering questions about their AWOL quarterback.

"All I know is it would be nice to have Jay here and it would be nice if Jay and the coaching staff can work out what they need to work out," defensive lineman Darrell Reid said Thursday. "Coach McDaniels, this organization, this staff, they have a vision for where they want this team to be, and I'm just glad to be a part of that vision."

But is that vision altered if Cutler receives his walking papers? Or can the refurbished Broncos quickly return to respectability with someone else under center?

"Obviously, you need a good quarterback," Reid said. "Let me say this first: I come from the Indianapolis Colts, OK? Let me say that first. I come from the Indianapolis Colts, where Peyton Manning is the quarterback. So, for me to sit here and say, 'Oh, you can win without a good quarterback?' Who am I to say that? I can't make that determination because I've never been on a team ... with decent, average quarterbacks."

And he's hoping he won't be this season, either.

"We had a Hall of Fame quarterback in Indianapolis, so I would say you do need a good quarterback to win in this league, especially in the playoffs," Reid said. "You go back as far as you want, Super Bowl teams, I think Baltimore might have been the last one that won without a good quarterback."

The Broncos haven't been to the playoffs since 2005, a drought that led to Mike Shanahan's ouster as coach and the hiring of McDaniels, who chose to use free agency as his primary tool for fixing the franchise that has won only one playoff game in the past decade.

McDaniels' first foray into free agency landed Brian Dawkins, who had spent his entire 13-year career with the Philadelphia Eagles and was one of the first free agents to hear the coach's spiel about winning right away.

"We're not trying to rebuild something. We're trying to build right now and to win right now," Dawkins said after signing a five-year, $17 million contract. "That's one of the reasons I bought in. At this point in my career, I'm not looking to really go to places that are rebuilding. Obviously, they wouldn't be bringing me in here if they were rebuilding, anyway, because they'd want to get young and start from there."

Dawkins added: "I know what they have on the offensive side of the ball and I wanted to help bring something to the defensive side of the ball."

While Dawkins was making those comments at his introductory news conference Feb. 28, Cutler was being informed that his name had come up in trade talks, igniting the firestorm the Broncos find themselves trying to put out.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-20-2009, 01:36 AM   #2
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

You are extremely dishonest,Taco.You pretend to be a down the middle guy, but posts like the prove beyond a shadow of a doubt your dishonesty.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:39 AM   #3
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
You are extremely dishonest,Taco.You pretend to be a down the middle guy, but posts like the prove beyond a shadow of a doubt your dishonesty.
What are you talking about? I didn't write the article. I just found it and posted it.

What a drama queen.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:40 AM   #4
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,650

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
You are extremely dishonest,Taco.You pretend to be a down the middle guy, but posts like the prove beyond a shadow of a doubt your dishonesty.
Yeah, name-calling over posting a goddamned article. That's real helpful man. Way to raise the bar of discussion for all of us. Good work!
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:43 AM   #5
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What are you talking about? I didn't write the article. I just found it and posted it.

What a drama queen.
Uh huh, I am sure you would have posted this article if it had (rightly) said that Jay ****ed this entire situation up with his cry baby antics. Sure, you would have posted the article then. Go on pretending to play the middle road, Taco...no one buys it.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:44 AM   #6
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killericon View Post
Yeah, name-calling over posting a goddamned article. That's real helpful man. Way to raise the bar of discussion for all of us. Good work!
Perhaps you can show me the name I called him, genius. I only said he was being dishonest...and I'm right.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:44 AM   #7
TDmvp
Ring of Famer
 
TDmvp's Avatar
 
This ones for Pat...

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,428
Default



this could have helped avoid this whole thing ...
TDmvp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:45 AM   #8
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

...and for that matter, the article is pretty well fact based. I don't proclaim to be "down the middle." I only care about the facts of the current situation. I don't choose to decieve myself with homer delusions that paint a story as rosey as possible.

I'm definitely not a "down the middle guy." The middle is for suckers.

I'll go where the facts go.

Last edited by Taco John; 03-20-2009 at 01:48 AM..
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:48 AM   #9
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
...and for that matter, the article is pretty well fact based. I don't proclaim to be "down the middle." I only care about the facts of the current situation. I don't choose to decieve myself with homer delusions that paint a story as rosey as possible.

I'm definitely not a "down the middle guy." The middle is for suckers.

Just the facts, ma'am...
Yeah...and you don't care about facts...your dishonesty aside. Fact is, there is no proof that McD lied about anything, which means the entire Jay suck fest has no teeth whatsoever. No one, yourself included, has ANY proof of ANY wrong doing by McD. NONE. You lose on a factual basis. Sorry.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:50 AM   #10
Popps
It's so easy
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,774
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What are you talking about? I didn't write the article. I just found it and posted it.

What a drama queen.
No, he just means that your obvious slant has been to be as down as possible on the team and their chances.

It's your right to be that way... he just means that you pretend that it's not the case. (Evident by your denial of his charge.)

That wolfe guy is a one-trick-pony, but at least he doesn't claim to be otherwise. It's disingenuousness that irks people, Taco... particularly when it's plainly transparent.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:50 AM   #11
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
Yeah...and you don't care about facts...your dishonesty aside. Fact is, there is no proof that McD lied about anything, which means the entire Jay suck fest has no teeth whatsoever. No one, yourself included, has ANY proof of ANY wrong doing by McD. NONE. You lose on a factual basis. Sorry.

That's actually not what this thread is about. It's pretty clear that you didn't even read the story. You just got SOOOOOO mad that somoene posted something that might be construed as negative towards poor mistreated Josh and you were going to come in here and give me a piece of your mind.

Isn't there a support thread here for that kind of thing so that you don't have to wreck threads with articles that make interesting points?
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:51 AM   #12
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
That wolfe guy is a one-trick-pony, but at least he doesn't claim to be otherwise. It's disingenuousness that irks people, Taco... particularly when it's plainly transparent.

You should know something about disingenuousness considering your reputation around this place.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:54 AM   #13
MagicHef
Ring of Famer
 
MagicHef's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,360

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
Yeah...and you don't care about facts...your dishonesty aside. Fact is, there is no proof that McD lied about anything, which means the entire Jay suck fest has no teeth whatsoever. No one, yourself included, has ANY proof of ANY wrong doing by McD. NONE. You lose on a factual basis. Sorry.
Please do not mix those particular metaphors.
MagicHef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:55 AM   #14
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
That's actually not what this thread is about. It's pretty clear that you didn't even read the story. You just got SOOOOOO mad that somoene posted something that might be construed as negative towards poor mistreated Josh and you were going to come in here and give me a piece of your mind.

Isn't there a support thread here for that kind of thing so that you don't have to wreck threads with articles that make interesting points?
OK, Taco, we'll see if you ever have enough integrity to back up this BS by posting a positive McD article. I don't believe you do. Prove me wrong.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:56 AM   #15
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
OK, Taco, we'll see if you ever have enough integrity to back up this BS by posting a positive McD article. I don't believe you do. Prove me wrong.

There aren't any this news cycle.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:59 AM   #16
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
There aren't any this news cycle.
Uh huh. There have been plenty down the pike. You haven't posted one. I am sure that is a coincidence
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:59 AM   #17
Popps
It's so easy
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,774
Default

As for the meat of the article, it's built on shaky ground. Very few coaches sell their teams to free agents as...

"Hey, we really want to win in three years! How do you feel about sucking for the next two, at least!?"

So, given what we've seen in places like Miami, Atlanta and others... winning in a hurry is very possible, and last I checked... neither of those QBs went to a Pro Bowl.



In fact, 8 of the 12 playoff teams this year did not feature a Pro Bowl QB.

3 of the 4 teams in the championship games did not have a Pro Bowl QB.

The Superbowl winning team did not have a Pro Bowl QB this year... nor did the Superbowl winning team the year before.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:00 AM   #18
Popps
It's so easy
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,774
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
You should know something about disingenuousness considering your reputation around this place.
Yea, I hear you saying that... and maybe your pocket pet.

Meanwhile, you are getting called out by someone different every day. Pretty comical.

Hopefully no one will ask you to put your money where your mouth is again. That was painful for everyone to watch.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:01 AM   #19
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,650

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
Perhaps you can show me the name I called him, genius. I only said he was being dishonest...and I'm right.
Yeah, you called him dishonest, and it has taken this thread to dizzying heights of stimulating conversation about the Denver Broncos. We all appreciate it.

This place is like World War 1. You guys post thread after thread that eventually becomes shooting from the same damn trenches. Have any of your arguments ever convinced anyone, other than those who already believed such to begin with, that you were right? Has your debates over Cutler v McDaniels gotten you guys anywhere? Has calling each other dishonest or disreputable gotten you anything other than a hardon over how right you are? This thread isn't even about Josh vs Jay anymore, it's about "honesty". What the hell? You guys talk like politicians. You're just slamming each other, over and over, no matter how well you cover it up with examples or cleverness. That's really all this thread is, a catfight. You're all freaking pundits. ****ing message board drama, man.



If you ask me, the article raises a good point about why certain free agents were brought in, but it's hard to say that this situation's rise indicates that McDaniels or Xanders misrepresented themselves to the FAs when they sold us as a "win-now" team. Of course, if we're losing, then locker room chemistry/discontentment that could be caused by certain veterans feeling lied to won't matter much, but this whole thing started with trying to get Cassel, and an intent to pull THAT trigger doesn't seem like showing that you want to go into rebuilding mode, does it?
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:02 AM   #20
watermock
"Hoodie Jr"
 
watermock's Avatar
 
"Hug me!"

Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah
Posts: 76,807
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
You are extremely dishonest,Taco.You pretend to be a down the middle guy, but posts like the prove beyond a shadow of a doubt your dishonesty.
Wow.

You just called him not only biased, but a liar.
watermock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:02 AM   #21
Ratboy
It's all over...
 
Ratboy's Avatar
 
ಠ_ಠ

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 15,637
Default

Excellent article.

The players came onboard thinking the offense was complete and the only thing needed was a defense, may not end up that way.
Ratboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:03 AM   #22
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
As for the meat of the article, it's built on shaky ground. Very few coaches sell their teams to free agents as...

"Hey, we really want to win in three years! How do you feel about sucking for the next two, at least!?"

So, given what we've seen in places like Miami, Atlanta and others... winning in a hurry is very possible, and last I checked... neither of those QBs went to a Pro Bowl.



In fact, 8 of the 12 playoff teams this year did not feature a Pro Bowl QB.

3 of the 4 teams in the championship games did not have a Pro Bowl QB.

The Superbowl winning team did not have a Pro Bowl QB this year... nor did the Superbowl winning team the year before.
Goddamn you and your facts, Popps! Taco's panties might get in a twist if you aren't careful (actually, more likely, he will give some dishonest spin of these facts and declare victory).
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:06 AM   #23
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTribbey View Post
Excellent article.

The players came onboard thinking the offense was complete and the only thing needed was a defense, may not end up that way.
Anyone who thought our 16th rated scoring and 8th worst turnover producing offense was "complete" is beyond stupid.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:07 AM   #24
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,650

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
Goddamn you and your facts, Popps! Taco's panties might get in a twist if you aren't careful (actually, more likely, he will give some dishonest spin of these facts and declare victory).
Good one! This "Taco John" fellow must surely feel like an idiot after you guys point out THAT THE ****ING QUARTERBACK IS IMPORTANT! HOW PERCEPTIVE OF YOU! I'M SURE TJ NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT! BY POINTING OUT THAT PRO BOWL QUARTERBACKS ARE VALUABLE, YOU HAVE SURELY SCORED A POINT FOR YOUR SIDE!!

Augh. I really, really wish I could quit you, Orangemane.
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 02:07 AM   #25
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,598

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Also, I should note: I don't care to prove you wrong. I can't imagine a more empty goal.

The person who needs to be proving people wrong is the person who you think that I should be blindly defending. Let me make this clear: I think Josh McDaniel's hiring was a mistake. I wanted us to hire someone with more experience dealing with players, personalities, and situations. But he's here, and I'm all about giving this guy a fair chance, because the Broncos are only going to win if he has his s*** together. So far, his tenure has been a disaster, and he's proving me right. That won't mean anything until games are played though - the proof is in the product.

I want the guy to get over on everybody and prove that he's everything he's cracked up to be, and not just another failed branch off of the Belichick coaching tree. But I'm not just going to throw my mind away in the process and ignore the fact that the house is on fire.

When Josh does somthing that I think is noteworthy, damn straight I'll give him praise. In my mind, signing Dawkins counts. Everything else has either been uncompelling, or disasterous. It's my sincere hope that he can pull it all together, and get the fan base behind him - but right now, it's not looking so great.

Last edited by Taco John; 03-20-2009 at 02:11 AM..
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Denver Broncos