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View Poll Results: What is your current opinion of your beloved Broncos
Firing Shanny will go down as one of the biggest mistakes ever for the Broncos 21 35.59%
It was time for Shanny but mcDaniels is not the answer he is proving to be too inexperienced 19 32.20%
A power play by a egotistical QB and an unscrupulous agent, this will determine mcDaniels future 8 13.56%
McDaniels is shanny 14 years ago he will prove his genius just wait you will see. 11 18.64%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-16-2009, 11:35 AM   #1
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Default A once proud franchise, what does the future hold?

Somewhere Shanahan is sitting on his 7 million and laughing his ass off watching the bumblings of the once proud franchise known as the Denver Broncos.
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:51 AM   #2
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What will the future hold for our Broncos under McDaniels?
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:56 AM   #3
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We joked about "The Plan" for years, but I really do think McDaniels has a plan to take us back to the promised land...
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:57 AM   #4
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Not enough options really.
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:58 AM   #5
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Not enough options really.
What is your take than...
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:07 PM   #6
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Shanahan has sat on his wrinkly tanned a-s for the last threeyears..what's new?
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:09 PM   #7
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I think the franchise is looking proud as ever. They reserved public comment until the organization was in a "must respond publicly" situation, kept the comments professional, and most importantly they were unanimous in their stance and tone.

Its the very epitome of class to me. Just because Cutler and Cook can't manage to show some class for even a single day in their attempts to spin this, and because the FO is unwilling to give them a huge new deal after choking away a division title, it doesn't tarnish the franchise at all as far as I'm concerned.

At this point I expect a draft day deal that nets us some pretty solid compensation, probably not as much as a lot of people here are hoping but something pretty nice, and we move forward. If we get Quinn or some other QB then we go forward with him, if not then worst case scenario Chris Simms gets a starting job back a little sooner than later and we draft a young QB in the middle to late rounds of the draft.

I'm expecting an 8-8 or better season myself. The defense will be significantly better and all the offensive pieces except Cutler (and possibly Scheffler) will be in tact with superior coaching. Its not real hard to improve on the 16th and 30th offense and defense respectively in points, and last I checked thats how they determined who won games, not yardage.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Crushaholic View Post
We joked about "The Plan" for years, but I really do think McDaniels has a plan to take us back to the promised land...
I don't even think Mcdaniels has a plan for where to go for lunch.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:10 PM   #9
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Not enough options really.
Agree, Baja.

There should be an option that a change was needed, and the franchise would again rise to prominence. But, to say McDaniel is Shanny just yet is premature.

That said, I think there are a lot of similarities.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:11 PM   #10
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McDaniels has proven to be to much of a buffoon, and more than a bit shady. He's demonstrably shown himself a liar and completely unprofessional. His story about McCutlergate changes every time he talks, and he kicked a good, class act player (Leech) to the curb to give his guy a sweet deal.

However, I think through his incompetence he has accidentally exposed Cutler/Cook for their own shadiness and money grubbing attitude as well. I think that will go down as his only real "accomplishment" in this franchise.

At this point, it's clear both Cutler and McD need to go. However, my suspicion is Jay will get the boot this season (traded or benched), and McD will be given a chance but on a much tighter leash than he would have had otherwise. Regardless, he'll need a season that exceeds all expectations (both on and off the field) in order to salvage his first job.

Last edited by Fedaykin; 03-16-2009 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Agree, Baja.

There should be an option that a change was needed, and the franchise would again rise to prominence. But, to say McDaniel is Shanny just yet is premature.

That said, I think there are a lot of similarities.
Maybe, the only 2 I can think of is that both were short and were OC's.

MickyD was only an OC for 3 years and we are now trusting him to build and lead the team.

MickyD made it to the SB with one of the best teams of all time then was outcoached by another autocrat.

Maybe he learned more from Coughlin than Belly...
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:18 PM   #12
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If I may use a metaphor. The Broncos franchise is like an ocean liner out on the deep blue sea. Somebody yelled, "The ship is sinking!" A bunch of drama queens panicked and launched a few of the lifeboats, hopped into them, and rowed away. Now, they are bobbing out on their little boats waiting for the ship to go down. Instead, the ship is sailing over the horizon and into the sunset with a blast of its horn. Those who are still on board are looking toward the next port of call with anticipation. Those out on the little drama boats are arguing about who should be in charge and who should row. Same as it ever was.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:21 PM   #13
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although I did have hope for McDaniels. I really do hope he gets this worked out, he still has a chance to be a good coach.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
I think the franchise is looking proud as ever. They reserved public comment until the organization was in a "must respond publicly" situation, kept the comments professional, and most importantly they were unanimous in their stance and tone.

Its the very epitome of class to me. Just because Cutler and Cook can't manage to show some class for even a single day in their attempts to spin this, and because the FO is unwilling to give them a huge new deal after choking away a division title, it doesn't tarnish the franchise at all as far as I'm concerned.

At this point I expect a draft day deal that nets us some pretty solid compensation, probably not as much as a lot of people here are hoping but something pretty nice, and we move forward. If we get Quinn or some other QB then we go forward with him, if not then worst case scenario Chris Simms gets a starting job back a little sooner than later and we draft a young QB in the middle to late rounds of the draft.

I'm expecting an 8-8 or better season myself. The defense will be significantly better and all the offensive pieces except Cutler (and possibly Scheffler) will be in tact with superior coaching. Its not real hard to improve on the 16th and 30th offense and defense respectively in points, and last I checked thats how they determined who won games, not yardage.
Here are some more rankings for you:

Offense:

Yards, 2nd
Pass yards, 3rd
Pass TDs, 7th
Pass INTs, 9th
Rush yards, 12th
1st Downs, 3rd
3rd %, 3rd
TOP, 25th

Defense:

Yards, 29th
Rush yards, 27th
Pass yards, 25th
Takeaways, 32nd
PDs, 30th
Sacks, 25th


It doesn't really look like it is the pass offense that is the problem to me. Hell, the pass offense was so good that even with Johnny Cellphone Salesman we managed to run the ball.

Even if we expect the defense to improve an average of 5 spots in every category, that will still put is in the top 10 of the draft. The Patriots dropped 11 spots with the switch from Brady to Cassel, since Cutler is not Brady we are probably not going to drop as far, but then our second choice is probably no Cassel, so I would say about 8 spots is probably realistic.

That gives us a middle ranked offense, somewhere between 10 and 20. Our defense will be ranked below 20, lets see how many teams made 8-8 or better like that last year, there is only one, the Chargers - they made 8-8 with the 11th ranked offense and the 25th ranked defense.

I love that you are so optimistic, but I would really feel a lot better if we could rely more on history and less on blind optimism in claiming that we will go 8-8.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
Somewhere Shanahan is sitting on his 7 million and laughing his ass off watching the bumblings of the once proud franchise known as the Denver Broncos.
Shanahan ran the once-proud franchise down, so he shouldn't be laughing.

At the beginning of the 1999 season, Denver had 6 AFC Titles, the clear leader among AFC teams. No other team was within two. Now, Pitt is ahead of Denver for AFC Titles, one of them through a total ass-kicking at Mile High in 2005. NE is tied, and Oakland is only one behind.

Shanahan should be hanging his head in shame, not laughing. He blew a two Championship lead in AFC Titles.

Maybe some people should stop sniveling about Shanahan the failure and recognize that the franchise has to make up some ground and are trying to do so, trying to make the franchise proud again, instead of trotting out the same old mediocre teams year after year.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:29 PM   #16
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The one question I'm pulling out of this mess is:

When will Bowlen learn to stop giving his head coaches too much control over personnel decisions??
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:34 PM   #17
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Shanahan ran the once-proud franchise down, so he shouldn't be laughing.

At the beginning of the 1999 season, Denver had 6 AFC Titles, the clear leader among AFC teams. No other team was within two. Now, Pitt is ahead of Denver for AFC Titles, one of them through a total ass-kicking at Mile High in 2005. NE is tied, and Oakland is only one behind.

Shanahan should be hanging his head in shame, not laughing. He blew a two Championship lead in AFC Titles.

Maybe some people should stop sniveling about Shanahan the failure and recognize that the franchise has to make up some ground and are trying to do so, trying to make the franchise proud again, instead of trotting out the same old mediocre teams year after year.
You make it sound like winning AFC championship games or even getting there is easy and Bronco fans are ENTITILED to it.

I think the Card's fans who waited 60 years are happy for 1 NFC Championship.

Perfection should be strived for but it is very difficult to obtain especially since there are 32 other teams trying to win.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Here are some more rankings for you:

Offense:

Yards, 2nd
Pass yards, 3rd
Pass TDs, 7th
Pass INTs, 9th
Rush yards, 12th
1st Downs, 3rd
3rd %, 3rd
TOP, 25th

Defense:

Yards, 29th
Rush yards, 27th
Pass yards, 25th
Takeaways, 32nd
PDs, 30th
Sacks, 25th


It doesn't really look like it is the pass offense that is the problem to me. Hell, the pass offense was so good that even with Johnny Cellphone Salesman we managed to run the ball.

Even if we expect the defense to improve an average of 5 spots in every category, that will still put is in the top 10 of the draft. The Patriots dropped 11 spots with the switch from Brady to Cassel, since Cutler is not Brady we are probably not going to drop as far, but then our second choice is probably no Cassel, so I would say about 8 spots is probably realistic.

That gives us a middle ranked offense, somewhere between 10 and 20. Our defense will be ranked below 20, lets see how many teams made 8-8 or better like that last year, there is only one, the Chargers - they made 8-8 with the 11th ranked offense and the 25th ranked defense.

I love that you are so optimistic, but I would really feel a lot better if we could rely more on history and less on blind optimism in claiming that we will go 8-8.
Awesome, you trot out the two biggest "I can't see reality from here deep in Cutler's ass cheeks" arguments.

Peripheral yardage stats. Great. Saying we were #2 in yardage is about as valid as saying we were #2 in completion percentage between the 21 and 23 yard lines between 2:30 to 3:00PM on Sundays. Its worthless if it doesn't lead to points.

And the rushing problem existed before even a single 'back got hurt because Bates ran an offense that was more pass heavy than even the Pats' record setting '07 offense. He wasn't making good use of the 'backs in the running game long before they started to go down with injuries. This argument ultimately falls apart though when you consider that every team has to deal with injuries. Did we have a lot at RB? Yeah. But how many games did our linemen miss? Our receivers? Our QB? Not many.

You talk about the drop off from Brady to Cassel in NE, but that overlooks a similar revolving door at RB for them and the reality that a lot of their OL was banged up all year. They deal with more injuries than our team did and still produced more points.

We weren't anything special last year on either side of the ball. The sooner people around here realize that the better a grip they'll have on what needs to be done to make this team a legitimate winner.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:54 PM   #19
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Once proud Franchise ? what was we McDonalds ? Some one in the front office get caught nailing some crack whore ?
went through this with Ralston , Miller , Reeves , Shanny , now McD ...... QB's Maddox , Morton /Wiesse , Deburg and Elwaqy , Bubby Brister , Now Cutler .
Been down this road so many times ...........
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:10 PM   #20
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This offseason has been more exciting than anything in the past 10 years. No one knows how this is really going to play out. I've always like the OT threads, but this is so much more interesting.

Personally, I hope Cutler and McDaniels mend fences, but my gut tells me that won't happen. It makes sense that Cook is really trying to get a new fat contract for Cutler and since this is a strained business relationship, Cutler's completely behind Cook's back. McD, Xanders, and Bowlen were all a few steps behind and now this has really blown up in their face.

McD was going to make a few missteps. He's been a little too over-reliant on going with guys he's worked for in the past. The biggest gaff involving a young promising QB who prevented the broncos from being 4-12 last yr and Leach being the other. I agree with Shanahan that the offense is (was) set and you'd have to be an idiot to tear it apart. Being a Bronco fan, I hope I'm wrong.

If Cutler leaves and the Broncos do anything better than 8-8, McD will show he belongs as a NFL coach and deserves 3 years. 6-10 or worse, he should be shown the door and Bowlen needs to realize he needs to stay in the background permanently.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:12 PM   #21
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Once proud Franchise ? what was we McDonalds ? Some one in the front office get caught nailing some crack whore ?
went through this with Ralston , Miller , Reeves , Shanny , now McD ...... QB's Maddox , Morton /Wiesse , Deburg and Elwaqy , Bubby Brister , Now Cutler .
Been down this road so many times ...........
But we are Bronco fans and we should have the record for AFC CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Screw the SB that is too hard and we are too far in the hole. BUT WE CAN TAKE THE LEAD IN AFC CHAMPIONSHIPS! WOOO HOOO
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:15 PM   #22
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Awesome, you trot out the two biggest "I can't see reality from here deep in Cutler's ass cheeks" arguments.

Peripheral yardage stats. Great. Saying we were #2 in yardage is about as valid as saying we were #2 in completion percentage between the 21 and 23 yard lines between 2:30 to 3:00PM on Sundays. Its worthless if it doesn't lead to points.

And the rushing problem existed before even a single 'back got hurt because Bates ran an offense that was more pass heavy than even the Pats' record setting '07 offense. He wasn't making good use of the 'backs in the running game long before they started to go down with injuries. This argument ultimately falls apart though when you consider that every team has to deal with injuries. Did we have a lot at RB? Yeah. But how many games did our linemen miss? Our receivers? Our QB? Not many.

You talk about the drop off from Brady to Cassel in NE, but that overlooks a similar revolving door at RB for them and the reality that a lot of their OL was banged up all year. They deal with more injuries than our team did and still produced more points.

We weren't anything special last year on either side of the ball. The sooner people around here realize that the better a grip they'll have on what needs to be done to make this team a legitimate winner.
7th in passing TDs, is that peripheral or will you agree that the pass offense was legit top 10? Clearly the passes led to points. Even you have to be able to understand that simple fact.

The running game got space because of the pass game, if you don't know that you should go try to watch some games. How often did we see 8 man fronts? how often did we see 7 man fronts? We saw more 6 man fronts than any other team in the league, if we didn't have that pass offense we wouldn't have gained nearly as many yards on the ground as we did.

The Patriots rush offense with Cassel was MUCH better than it was with Brady. Patriots rush offense 2008: 6th. Patriots rush offense in 2007: 13th. That loud sound just heard was your argument falling to the ground.

What revolving door offensive line? Their LT, LG and C played all 16 games from start, Their RT started 14 games and their RG started 9. They only had 6 players start on the OL all year. I can see how they had an onslaught of injuries. We actually had more runningbacks get a start than they had offensive linemen.

Fact is we were easily top 10 in the league in passing TDs.

But, if you think top 10 is nothing special, then just wait until we are not top 10 in anything, you are going to miss it. That day could come soon, and if Simms ever takes a snap it will come.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:18 PM   #23
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Bowlen has disgraced the franchise. Whether you side with Cutler or McDaniels, it all goes back to Bowlen...both his lies and sitting on his hands with all that has gone on recently. Even though he tried to contact Cutler after McDaniels botched the conference call, he should have screened what McDaniels was going to say before the conference call. It was too important. Backing McDaniels who was saying the same thing that Cutler wasnt believing to begin with was a huge mistake. It accomplished nothing other than worsen the whole matter. Pat's new coach is out of control because Pat doesnt want to be as involved as he origninally said he did. But the other truth is that Pat has entrenched himself with McDaniels in such a way that its not possible for him to admit mistakes were made.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:20 PM   #24
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Saying we were #2 in yardage is about as valid as saying we were #2 in completion percentage between the 21 and 23 yard lines between 2:30 to 3:00PM on Sundays. Its worthless if it doesn't lead to points.

We weren't anything special last year on either side of the ball. The sooner people around here realize that the better a grip they'll have on what needs to be done to make this team a legitimate winner.
I agree that the offense wasn't the second coming of the patriots or the colts last year, but I really think you're underestimating how badly the RB situation and defense put the rest of the offense in.

No running game meant no ability to control the clock and make the defense respect the LOS. Shanahan's offense is still based on play-action and misdirection, something that did not exist for most of the year.

The D was horrific to a point that led to an overaggressive offense making a bunch of stupid mistakes. More importantly they never got off the field quickly, and prevented the broncos offense from getting into any rhythm or momentum, which is also a huge aspect of Shanahan's offense.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:44 PM   #25
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I agree that the offense wasn't the second coming of the patriots or the colts last year, but I really think you're underestimating how badly the RB situation and defense put the rest of the offense in.

No running game meant no ability to control the clock and make the defense respect the LOS. Shanahan's offense is still based on play-action and misdirection, something that did not exist for most of the year.

The D was horrific to a point that led to an overaggressive offense making a bunch of stupid mistakes. More importantly they never got off the field quickly, and prevented the broncos offense from getting into any rhythm or momentum, which is also a huge aspect of Shanahan's offense.
The offense seemed to have plenty of rhythm and momentum until it got inside the 20's. Then they looked like they couldn't read a D if the opposition told them what was coming.

And the offense was just as bad at putting points into the end zone from behind, ahead, or tied. So the D putting them in a whole is just another myth people like to perpetuate around here.

We had Young and Pittman to start they season and for several games into it. We had Hillis for several games in the middle of the season, where he played great. We were never totally destitute at RB because even though he was out of the league at the time, Tatum Bell has proven he's at least a quality second RB in the NFL right here in Denver. Bates just had no idea how to call a running offense, Cutler had no desire to run one, and combined they orchestrated a big passing game that didn't produce nearly the points it should have.
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