Armstrong now states it was Cassel and 2 high draft picks for Cutler - The Orange Mane

eddie mac · 03-10-2009, 03:39 AM

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11874404

The way Shannon Sharpe sees it, the Broncos are going to trade Jay Cutler.

Now for the fine print on the deal: By the time it happens, he won't be Jay Cutler anymore.

"I can't recall a young quarterback with that kind of talent getting traded away," Sharpe said. "They tried to move John (Elway), but he wasn't in the prime of his career. They traded Joe Montana, but he was in year 15. They traded Johnny Unitas, but he was in year 15 or year 17 or whatever. So that's different."

Trade Cutler? Please. The only reason it was discussed was because Josh McDaniels had a chance to acquire Matt Cassel. Trouble is, Cutler has gotten so bent out of shape over it that he hasn't finished the sentence in his own mind. What Cutler needs to do is realize his name was being kicked around because McDaniels had a chance to acquire Cassel and a couple of high draft picks to launch a rebuilding of the defense.

Once Cutler gets past the hurt, he'll realize the proposed deal made sense. Because no quarterback, not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or anyone else, could have been successful with the Broncos' defenses of 2007 and '08.

And maybe, just maybe, Cutler will admit to himself that McDaniels gets it. Say what you will about the botched trade talks, but the Kid Coach has a very clear view of the forest. Unlike the previous regime, he isn't paying lip service to the defense. Instead, he's going to great lengths to fix it.

If you're a Broncos fan, you should be happy McDaniels is calling the shots. He doesn't just bring new energy, which the franchise badly needed. He brings an objective viewpoint that had gotten lost in recent years.

Mike Shanahan had ties, financial and emotional, to his defensive players. His thinking was that, given the offense's potential for greatness, he could get by with a shaky defense. McDaniels? He came in with a chain saw and asked questions later. He didn't adopt Shanahan's signature move and fire the defensive coordinator. He fired the players because, as anyone in this town who doesn't watch HGTV on Sunday afternoons in autumn can attest, they weren't very good.

Now comes the tricky part. McDaniels has signed a handful of replacement parts who, for the short term, could return the defense to respectability. But the players who'll take the defense to the next level for the long run aren't yet here. They have to be drafted and developed.

Draft day. That's when McDaniels will succeed or fail, boom or bust. As Shanahan proved, there often isn't much in between.

Hulamau · 03-10-2009, 03:44 AM

Good article by Armstrong

He is right. The problem is IF Jay is holding this thing up still he may very well still find his way on a train out of town .. and if he doesn't have his mind right yet .. maybe he should!

I'm all for Jay getting his act together and leading the Blue and Orange to multiple SB's, but he has got to grow up first or he isn't going anywhere but ... "What If" land. Regardless of where he winds up playing.

If he succeeds in pouting his way out of town and gets shipped to Detroit then ... good luck Jay, he'll likely quickly miss having this o-line in front of him, I can imagine that!

Two possibilities are both the Broncos and Bus Cook and Jay are all quietly trying to find a new home for him on terms that would suit us as well, and that is why this further delay in the meeting has happened, OR Jay is probably still dragging his feet and has become the main problem here.

I sure hope not as I've wanted to like Cutler and have supported him in Denver, but am getting more wary of the kid as the days pass and this thing lingers.

Not hearing from either side really suggests to me a lot is happening behind the scenes. We shall see soon enough I suppose.

Either way doesn't look quite as promising for Cutler staying with us as it did even last week. Hope I'm wrong.

chaz · 03-10-2009, 03:47 AM

Ya good article... pretty sure we knew the trade was two firsts and Cassel already though.

extralife · 03-10-2009, 03:50 AM

Nobody seems to know, but these are not new numbers being tossed about. It is clear either way that the media is grasping at straws on this issue.

Broncoman13 · 03-10-2009, 04:02 AM

This is what's stupid about McD's silence. If the trade was truly for that much value, SPEAK UP! Don't lie to Jay and tell him they didn't consider it.

I think the fans and player alike would understand the situation. There is all kind of speculation out there about the trade. I can easily say that we were going to get two high picks (1st and 3rd from Tampa) but we were also giving up a higher first and Cutler. What exactly do we gain by doing that? Not like we're getting a whole lot of value there... that is my beef with this. McD could've (should've) stepped up a long time ago and cleared the air on this, both to Cutler and the media. What does he gain by allowing this to stir, spin, stir some more, and possibly affect his status with the team before he ever coaches a down? Nothing to gain by keeping his silence and denying they were trying to trade Cutler.

Killericon · 03-10-2009, 04:13 AM

Jeez...Sharpe compared him with Elway, Montana and Unitas? No wonder Cutler's got a big ego.

Schism · 03-10-2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSKIE!!!

This is what's stupid about McD's silence. If the trade was truly for that much value, SPEAK UP! Don't lie to Jay and tell him they didn't consider it.

I think the fans and player alike would understand the situation. There is all kind of speculation out there about the trade. I can easily say that we were going to get two high picks (1st and 3rd from Tampa) but we were also giving up a higher first and Cutler. What exactly do we gain by doing that? Not like we're getting a whole lot of value there... that is my beef with this. McD could've (should've) stepped up a long time ago and cleared the air on this, both to Cutler and the media. What does he gain by allowing this to stir, spin, stir some more, and possibly affect his status with the team before he ever coaches a down? Nothing to gain by keeping his silence and denying they were trying to trade Cutler.

I've thought about this, and my bet is that McDaniels basically wants Cutler to come to terms with this on his own. Don't pander to his tantrum and try and hug him and kiss him and tell him that everything is alright. Make him deal with this by himself.

Be a man, basically.

Maybe then Jay will realise that he isn't the Denver Broncos, that life will go on at Dove Valley with or without him and that the HC has better things to do with his time than beg Jay to forgive him for his horrible sins.

Long term it'll only be good for the team if Jay can grow up. If he can't get over it and mature, then I'm not sure he's the kind of guy that can truly lead this team, regardless of how much talent he has.

eddie mac · 03-10-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaz

Ya good article... pretty sure we knew the trade was two firsts and Cassel already though.

There are plenty that are still in denial, and the mugs at ESPN still attempt to maintain that it was JC straight up for Cassel by all accounts.

Clough is the only source that has quoted the Lions two 1sts ever being involved.

Swedish Extrovert · 03-10-2009, 05:02 AM

Cutler is a great QB with an enormous ego. I thought we were over this. Sharpe is feeding the flames and I don't like it.

LonghornBronco · 03-10-2009, 06:06 AM

Granted Jay has a big ego, but isn't that what you want in a top level QB. I think McD has to do what ever is necessary to get Jay back in the fold, because without him we are a bottom 10 team.

broncofan7 · 03-10-2009, 06:09 AM

We need to extend him ASAP. And it should have happened 10 days or so ago...

bpc · 03-10-2009, 06:11 AM

I think if it was a blockbuster trade, you have to look at it.

However, that was one trade scenario.

There were 2 other teams that Cutler had his name linked with. ?

Loyalty here sucks. The time for talking is over though. The best thing for all sides to do is just shut up, go through the motions of the rest of the offseason/draft and get ready for the season and play well when the time is right.

Broncos_OTM · 03-10-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornBronco

Granted Jay has a big ego, but isn't that what you want in a top level QB. I think McD has to do what ever is necessary to get Jay back in the fold, because without him we are a bottom 10 team.

Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Tom Brady. Dan Marino. list could go on. then you got guys like Tony Romo..

theAPAOps5 · 03-10-2009, 06:41 AM

If Jay ends up leaving town its because of him and its probably better that someone with that weak minded not be the leader of our team. The fact is they didn't pull the trigger on that trade PROPOSAL and that was the last of it. But the guy is throwing a hissy fit. The ball is in Cutlers court, can he grow up? We will see.

broncofan7 · 03-10-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncos_OTM

Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Tom Brady. Dan Marino. list could go on. then you got guys like Tony Romo..

What's the point you are trying to make? All the Qb's you have listed above have large egos...2 of the 4 have won SB's. and..............

Drek · 03-10-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSKIE!!!

This is what's stupid about McD's silence. If the trade was truly for that much value, SPEAK UP! Don't lie to Jay and tell him they didn't consider it.

I think the fans and player alike would understand the situation. There is all kind of speculation out there about the trade. I can easily say that we were going to get two high picks (1st and 3rd from Tampa) but we were also giving up a higher first and Cutler. What exactly do we gain by doing that? Not like we're getting a whole lot of value there... that is my beef with this. McD could've (should've) stepped up a long time ago and cleared the air on this, both to Cutler and the media. What does he gain by allowing this to stir, spin, stir some more, and possibly affect his status with the team before he ever coaches a down? Nothing to gain by keeping his silence and denying they were trying to trade Cutler.

Where do you get the impression that they told Jay they didn't even consider it? He's said from day one that he hasn't talked to them and doesn't want to talk to them, because he's got his own version of the facts and he doesn't even care to hear theirs.

The Tampa deal appears to have been the Bucs' 1st and 3rd for Cutler, while the Broncos flip #48 to the Pats for Cassel. Hence it getting no traction when KC was willing to give the #34 pick.

The Detroit deal was supposedly #1 and #20 in a similar scenario, via Clough, I'm more willing to believe it was the same scenario but with #20 and the Lions 3rd rounder instead, with Detroit's 2nd going to NE and the Broncos 2nd going to Detroit. The reason I believe that is because Detroit by all accounts got involved after hearing that Tampa Bay got some interest when talking Cutler, but Tampa Bay couldn't get it done so Detroit would need to sweeten the pot on both the Broncos and Pats ends to seal the deal.

The real problem with all of this from a fan standpoint is that WAY too many people are willing to swallow the poor reporting of ESPN and the local mediots who have no ties left in the Broncos organization (and an axe to grind with McDaniels as a result) instead of a reliable source like Shefter who said the Broncos only listened to offers briefly and never actually agreed to trade Cutler.

As for Cutler himself, Sharpe's comment highlights pretty clearly that better, more established QBs than Jay have been traded, and for a lot less than the Broncos were talking about getting back. He didn't handle it well initially by going along with the media's drama creation but he can turn that around as soon as he wants to just say that its not a big deal and he's moved on. Come time for an extension you have a good reason to not offer a home town discount, but a mature player would realize that is about all this amounts to.

theAPAOps5 · 03-10-2009, 07:06 AM

Drek there are some fights you aren't going to win. This is one of them he already jumped off the bandwagon and gave up his season tickets, albeit in the club level so they will be there when he is ready to get back on.

baja · 03-10-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broncofan7

We need to extend him ASAP. And it should have happened 10 days or so ago...

Shouldn't they get him to talk to them first.

Meck77 · 03-10-2009, 07:19 AM

Don't you first have to become a winner before you can walk around a football field with confidence that you can lead a team to victory no matter how difficult the challenge might be? Elway and Montana had that.

When things get tough Jay pouts. Several charger games come to mind.

eddie mac · 03-10-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpc

I think if it was a blockbuster trade, you have to look at it.

However, that was one trade scenario.

There were 2 other teams that Cutler had his name linked with. ?

Loyalty here sucks. The time for talking is over though. The best thing for all sides to do is just shut up, go through the motions of the rest of the offseason/draft and get ready for the season and play well when the time is right.

I'm pretty sure McDaniels was looking at the best possible scenario where he got Cassel and the highest/most draft picks for Cutler. Those 3 named teams showed the interest and the willingness to trade with New England to land Cassel and then deal to us. Problem was none could meet the Patriot's price for Cassel.

HEAV · 03-10-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightySmurf

Cutler is a great QB with an enormous ego. I thought we were over this. Sharpe is feeding the flames and I don't like it.

Correction: Jay is a good quarterback, with potential to be a great player. But his ego and immaturity are clearly holding him back from hitting that next level.

His ego in his arm (Like Elway in the young years) get's him into trouble on the field. Forcing passes into coverage and making so very scary throws. While he has had some success throwing rockets in tight spaces, he must learn to take what's open. Also he has a dependency issue when Brandon is on the field. He will ignore a better option to throw to Marshall

Immaturity with the body language, the verbal outburst at receivers and the talking openly with the media about in house issues just drag the kid down. He's developed a reputation of being moody and easily to rattle and shows a tendency of not being ready for the business side of profootball.

Sadly Jay was used by Shanahan as smoke screen,deodorant...what ever you want to call it, to hide the other issues with the team.

Now the new coaching staff has to deal with the monster Shanny and desperate fans in search of Elway 2.0 have created.

HEAV · 03-10-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie mac

I'm pretty sure McDaniels was looking at the best possible scenario where he got Cassel and the highest/most draft picks for Cutler. Those 3 named teams showed the interest and the willingness to trade with New England to land Cassel and then deal to us. Problem was none could meet the Patriot's price for Cassel.

The Pat's wanted and got only a second rounder.

The real issue was the trade with the Chiefs was already set with the vrabel trade early Friday. Then the Broncos or other teams tried moving in later.

Many in NE feel that Pioli and Bill had the perameters of the trade in place long before Friday and Bill was held to the deal at the end.

jonny1 · 03-10-2009, 08:07 AM

READ THE DAMN ARTICLE CORRECTLY!

Shannon did not say it was Cassel and 2 high picks. When a quotation mark follows a period, that means the quotation is finished. The bit about the draft picks is Armstrong, not Sharpe.

eddie mac · 03-10-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny1

READ THE DAMN ARTICLE CORRECTLY!

Shannon did not say it was Cassel and 2 high picks. When a quotation mark follows a period, that means the quotation is finished. The bit about the draft picks is Armstrong, not Sharpe.

Title corrected, good pick up and here's a tip try anger management classes.

Back to the article.

The fact that Armstrong has stated it actually holds more oil than Sharpe would have anyway. In a week when we had Post writers like Klis and Woody attacking McDaniels from all sides it's nice to see someone print some facts and back our HC for a change instread of the constant sucking of young JC's nutsack.

skpac1001 · 03-10-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornBronco

Granted Jay has a big ego, but isn't that what you want in a top level QB. I think McD has to do what ever is necessary to get Jay back in the fold, because without him we are a bottom 10 team.

I want Jay on our team also, I think we are way better with him, but I don't want Jay's butt kissed to get him back on board. Jay needs to learn that being a team captain means he leads the teammates, not the coaches/owners. The last thing I want is for Jay to start doing this crap every time McDaniels yells at him. I am not worried about him refusing to play, and when he does it has to be under McDaniels leash, like Favre with Holmgren, rather then McDaniels under Cutlers leash, like Favre after Holmgren.

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03-10-2009, 03:39 AM	#1
eddie mac Ireland's No1 Bronco Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IRELAND Posts: 15,572 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith	Armstrong now states it was Cassel and 2 high draft picks for Cutler http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11874404 The way Shannon Sharpe sees it, the Broncos are going to trade Jay Cutler. Now for the fine print on the deal: By the time it happens, he won't be Jay Cutler anymore. "I can't recall a young quarterback with that kind of talent getting traded away," Sharpe said. "They tried to move John (Elway), but he wasn't in the prime of his career. They traded Joe Montana, but he was in year 15. They traded Johnny Unitas, but he was in year 15 or year 17 or whatever. So that's different." Trade Cutler? Please. The only reason it was discussed was because Josh McDaniels had a chance to acquire Matt Cassel. Trouble is, Cutler has gotten so bent out of shape over it that he hasn't finished the sentence in his own mind. What Cutler needs to do is realize his name was being kicked around because McDaniels had a chance to acquire Cassel and a couple of high draft picks to launch a rebuilding of the defense. Once Cutler gets past the hurt, he'll realize the proposed deal made sense. Because no quarterback, not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or anyone else, could have been successful with the Broncos' defenses of 2007 and '08. And maybe, just maybe, Cutler will admit to himself that McDaniels gets it. Say what you will about the botched trade talks, but the Kid Coach has a very clear view of the forest. Unlike the previous regime, he isn't paying lip service to the defense. Instead, he's going to great lengths to fix it. If you're a Broncos fan, you should be happy McDaniels is calling the shots. He doesn't just bring new energy, which the franchise badly needed. He brings an objective viewpoint that had gotten lost in recent years. Mike Shanahan had ties, financial and emotional, to his defensive players. His thinking was that, given the offense's potential for greatness, he could get by with a shaky defense. McDaniels? He came in with a chain saw and asked questions later. He didn't adopt Shanahan's signature move and fire the defensive coordinator. He fired the players because, as anyone in this town who doesn't watch HGTV on Sunday afternoons in autumn can attest, they weren't very good. Now comes the tricky part. McDaniels has signed a handful of replacement parts who, for the short term, could return the defense to respectability. But the players who'll take the defense to the next level for the long run aren't yet here. They have to be drafted and developed. Draft day. That's when McDaniels will succeed or fail, boom or bust. As Shanahan proved, there often isn't much in between. Last edited by eddie mac; 03-10-2009 at 08:36 AM..

03-10-2009, 03:44 AM	#2
Hulamau Polynesian Paralysis In the Pocket Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hulaville and Sedona Posts: 8,035 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eric Decker	Good article by Armstrong He is right. The problem is IF Jay is holding this thing up still he may very well still find his way on a train out of town .. and if he doesn't have his mind right yet .. maybe he should! I'm all for Jay getting his act together and leading the Blue and Orange to multiple SB's, but he has got to grow up first or he isn't going anywhere but ... "What If" land. Regardless of where he winds up playing. If he succeeds in pouting his way out of town and gets shipped to Detroit then ... good luck Jay, he'll likely quickly miss having this o-line in front of him, I can imagine that! Two possibilities are both the Broncos and Bus Cook and Jay are all quietly trying to find a new home for him on terms that would suit us as well, and that is why this further delay in the meeting has happened, OR Jay is probably still dragging his feet and has become the main problem here. I sure hope not as I've wanted to like Cutler and have supported him in Denver, but am getting more wary of the kid as the days pass and this thing lingers. Not hearing from either side really suggests to me a lot is happening behind the scenes. We shall see soon enough I suppose. Either way doesn't look quite as promising for Cutler staying with us as it did even last week. Hope I'm wrong. Last edited by Hulamau; 03-10-2009 at 03:59 AM..

03-10-2009, 03:47 AM	#3
chaz highly touted recruit Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,455 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mr. Bruton	Ya good article... pretty sure we knew the trade was two firsts and Cassel already though.

03-10-2009, 03:50 AM	#4
extralife Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,897	Nobody seems to know, but these are not new numbers being tossed about. It is clear either way that the media is grasping at straws on this issue.

03-10-2009, 04:02 AM	#5
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,961 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	This is what's stupid about McD's silence. If the trade was truly for that much value, SPEAK UP! Don't lie to Jay and tell him they didn't consider it. I think the fans and player alike would understand the situation. There is all kind of speculation out there about the trade. I can easily say that we were going to get two high picks (1st and 3rd from Tampa) but we were also giving up a higher first and Cutler. What exactly do we gain by doing that? Not like we're getting a whole lot of value there... that is my beef with this. McD could've (should've) stepped up a long time ago and cleared the air on this, both to Cutler and the media. What does he gain by allowing this to stir, spin, stir some more, and possibly affect his status with the team before he ever coaches a down? Nothing to gain by keeping his silence and denying they were trying to trade Cutler.

03-10-2009, 04:13 AM	#6
Killericon YES A DT!!!!!! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From Calgary, in Halifax for School Posts: 7,730 Adopt-a-Bronco: watermock	Jeez...Sharpe compared him with Elway, Montana and Unitas? No wonder Cutler's got a big ego.

03-10-2009, 05:02 AM	#9
Swedish Extrovert President of the Universe Formerly known as mightysmurf Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Highlands Ranch Posts: 14,947 Adopt-a-Bronco: Joel Dreesen	Cutler is a great QB with an enormous ego. I thought we were over this. Sharpe is feeding the flames and I don't like it.

03-10-2009, 06:06 AM	#10
LonghornBronco Ring of Famer Hook'em Horns Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin Posts: 1,356 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rahim Moore	Granted Jay has a big ego, but isn't that what you want in a top level QB. I think McD has to do what ever is necessary to get Jay back in the fold, because without him we are a bottom 10 team.

03-10-2009, 06:09 AM	#11
broncofan7 AKA "THE STANDARD" BQ looks ALMOST as good as I do Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: BIG D Posts: 6,022	We need to extend him ASAP. And it should have happened 10 days or so ago...

03-10-2009, 06:11 AM	#12
bpc "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" 1 sword keeps another in the sheath Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 12,569 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I think if it was a blockbuster trade, you have to look at it. However, that was one trade scenario. There were 2 other teams that Cutler had his name linked with. ? Loyalty here sucks. The time for talking is over though. The best thing for all sides to do is just shut up, go through the motions of the rest of the offseason/draft and get ready for the season and play well when the time is right.

03-10-2009, 06:41 AM	#14
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,058 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	If Jay ends up leaving town its because of him and its probably better that someone with that weak minded not be the leader of our team. The fact is they didn't pull the trigger on that trade PROPOSAL and that was the last of it. But the guy is throwing a hissy fit. The ball is in Cutlers court, can he grow up? We will see.

03-10-2009, 07:06 AM	#17
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,058 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	Drek there are some fights you aren't going to win. This is one of them he already jumped off the bandwagon and gave up his season tickets, albeit in the club level so they will be there when he is ready to get back on.

03-10-2009, 07:19 AM	#19
Meck77 Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,310	Don't you first have to become a winner before you can walk around a football field with confidence that you can lead a team to victory no matter how difficult the challenge might be? Elway and Montana had that. When things get tough Jay pouts. Several charger games come to mind.

03-10-2009, 08:07 AM	#23
jonny1 Ahhh, football! Broncos' cheerleaders rule! Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 2,504 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Kuper	READ THE DAMN ARTICLE CORRECTLY! Shannon did not say it was Cassel and 2 high picks. When a quotation mark follows a period, that means the quotation is finished. The bit about the draft picks is Armstrong, not Sharpe.